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UAF vs UAF!!

durruti02 said:
hey UAF are good for one thing .. their figures show the bnp increased their vote in keighly west

.. and are you really disputing the bnp do not do well where they stand??? on these ward figures they increased their vote by significantly more than regional 3.4% .. maybe 7 or 8% which is large increase at this level

leeds would be my case in point .. i imagine there was a lot of leafletting and demos there

as with the wages/migration debate you are looking at the general/higher level so much you are missing the specific .. or i could say you are missing the wood for the trees

http://www.uaf.org.uk/resources/0606ELwards.pdf

In your initial post you said the BNP did "really well", but I'll accept that now you've dropped the "really".

Here are the sources I looked at.

http://www.uaf.org.uk/resources/0606ELregion.pdf

http://www.stopthebnp.com

You almost seem to be pleased with the BNP results in Leeds.

"wood for the trees"? Dear me, another fucking cliche. :rolleyes:
 
MC5 said:
In your initial post you said the BNP did "really well", but I'll accept that now you've dropped the "really".

Here are the sources I looked at.

http://www.uaf.org.uk/resources/0606ELregion.pdf

http://www.stopthebnp.com

You almost seem to be pleased with the BNP results in Leeds.

"wood for the trees"? Dear me, another fucking cliche. :rolleyes:

yes i know you looked at the regional data!!!!! .. that was exactly my point mate .. at a regional level the significanace of their gains is washed out .. and so that data is of no significnace/relevence

which is why i pointed you to the WARD data which is MORE relevent here .. see link

http://www.uaf.org.uk/resources/0606ELwards.pdf

of course i am NOT pleased they did REALLY well ( as they did) :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .. ( at this stage i could and maybe should call you a wanker for suggesting i would be .. i will not)

i am drawing your and others attention to the clear fact that the UAF strategy DOES NOT WORK ( NOT SHOUTING BUT EMPHASIS!! :D )
 
durruti02 said:
yes i know you looked at the regional data!!!!! .. that was exactly my point mate .. at a regional level the significanace of their gains is washed out .. and so that data is of no significnace/relevence

which is why i pointed you to the WARD data which is MORE relevent here .. see link

http://www.uaf.org.uk/resources/0606ELwards.pdf

of course i am NOT pleased they did REALLY well ( as they did) :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .. ( at this stage i could and maybe should call you a wanker for suggesting i would be .. i will not)

i am drawing your and others attention to the clear fact that the UAF strategy DOES NOT WORK ( NOT SHOUTING BUT EMPHASIS!! :D )

Campaigning against the BNP is to be welcomed and I'm glad to see it pisses both the BNP and you off.
 
Far from? Were you there? You could argue we didn't actually halt the press conference, but the attack on his car and minders outside was of a completely different order to anything seen since and this was reflected in the press coverage particularly in France but also the UK.
Also I gather that UAF have now dropped their explusion of Revo. But don't know any more details.
 
MC5 said:
In March 2006 the BNP lost its safest council seat after the voters of Keighley West turned to Labour in large numbers. This in comparison to the result in 2004 when the BNP won 51.2% of the vote, leaving Labour trailing well behind.

As for doing "really well" in West Yorkshire overall? A regional breakdown of the BNP vote in the 2006 local elections shows that in Yorkshire and The Humber the BNP gained one councillor with their vote increasing by 3.4%.

come on- you know exactly how the BNP are doing- in yorkshire and elsewhere- underlined against by the 26.6% they polled in scarborough last thursday

if they increase their vote by a further 2.7% they would have won 8 seats in bradford in 2006 inluding taking back keighley

cant we even agree on the basic fact they are doing well and that new thinking is needed- or do you really think the failed tactics of the last 5 years will really work when we are faced with the Biggest ever show by the BNP next may?
 
JimPage said:
come on- you know exactly how the BNP are doing- in yorkshire and elsewhere- underlined against by the 26.6% they polled in scarborough last thursday

if they increase their vote by a further 2.7% they would have won 8 seats in bradford in 2006 inluding taking back keighley

cant we even agree on the basic fact they are doing well and that new thinking is needed- or do you really think the failed tactics of the last 5 years will really work when we are faced with the Biggest ever show by the BNP next may?

Jim, I do agree that the BNP are doing well - comparatively speaking, but I don't agree that the tactics of the last five years have "failed" as such.

There are organisations being built at grass-roots level, because it's recognised that the BNP is building its electoral successes on the back of specific local campaigns.

There are no longer fascist marches as there were in the 70's - these have been replaced by door-to-door leafleting and canvassing with an emphasis placed on local issues. In areas with inept councils, where the mainstream parties do little or no work, is it any wonder that the BNP can present itself as the solution to problems (it should be added, to one specific racial group).

While the political climate is far better for the BNP today than in previous years there can be no doubt that the BNP's methods work. It's clear then that the fascists approach must be countered with an anti-fascist strategy at a similar local level.
 
Lukey C said:
The only person lying here is Josh.

We met with the woman who told us that UAF threatened us with legal action originally this morning. She confirmed that this is what she was told on the phone. The threat was made. That it was later recanted is good, but nevertheless, this does not negate the original threat.

Josh then says that we were not expelled from Leeds Uni UAF but only the meeting. This is a complete lie to cover up for the back tracking of UAF central office and the Leeds Uni and Met SWSS groups. The motion made it clear that all Revolution Society members were expelled from the Leeds Uni UAF group. I'm please to say that the woman who chaired the meeting that expelled us, told us this morning they are willing to withdraw the expulsion. Good. Perhaps then we can get on with building the movement. We will work to ensure that the movement has the maximum possible democracy, open and honest debate on the strategic questions and democratic accountability in its decision making structures.

I can't let Mr T's post go without comment. The classic argument of keeping Lib Dems, Greens, Tories, etc, on board in the anti-fascist movement. This is a complete joke. Activists from these parties are no where to be seen at the base of the movement. Their presence at the top allows them to act as a phantom right wing that checks the development of more radical approach to fighting the BNP (which is desperately needed) at the base.

The truth is the anti-fascist movement is tiny. Every day that goes by that sees UAF not addressing islamophobia (indeed, conducting threats and mini-purges against those that do want UAF to address it!) and refugee racism, the need for no platform, organised self defence, etc, is a day lost to the BNP. We will continue to raise these issues within the movement, fight for their adoption etc. We will also, leaving aside the outrageous slanders levelled at us from some quarters, do this in an entirely loyal fashion and in the context of unity.

Finally, for all their talk of unity, etc, its worth pointing out that there is an artificial split in the anti-racist and anti-fascist movement since Searchlight left UAF eighteen months ago. Its funny that SWP members always "talk left" when they are making venomous attacks on Searchlight - "Labour Party bastards", etc - but their politics are not qualitatively different to UAF's, they just advocate a Labour vote, and, it has to be said, tackle some local issues (admittedly from the perspective of right wing social democracy). There is a probably a case for arguing that there needs to be a national conference (call it a people's assembly?) of all forces that want to campaign against racism and fascism in Britain to discuss the way forward.

Cheers,

Luke
the confusion continues who was the threat made by and who is this woman non of this is verifyable or true. But don't let facts get in the way of a good slander.

As for your views on anti fascism that people from Respect/socialist party etc shoud be isolated and those from the jewish community or any community for that matter who are opposed to the war don't have a part in the anti fascist movement if you want a small movement with no following because not everyone aggrees with the revolution line fine but let us get on with the seriouse business of getting rid of the BNP.
 
MC5 said:
Campaigning against the BNP is to be welcomed and I'm glad to see it pisses both the BNP and you off.

MC5 that is a poor response to my post .. reprinted below


"Originally Posted by durruti02
yes i know you looked at the regional data!!!!! .. that was exactly my point mate .. at a regional level the significanace of their gains is washed out .. and so that data is of no significnace/relevence
which is why i pointed you to the WARD data which is MORE relevent here .. see link

http://www.uaf.org.uk/resources/0606ELwards.pdf

of course i am NOT pleased they did REALLY well ( as they did) .. ( at this stage i could and maybe should call you a wanker for suggesting i would be .. i will not)
i am drawing your and others attention to the clear fact that the UAF strategy DOES NOT WORK ( NOT SHOUTING BUT EMPHASIS!! )"



you were wrong in what you were saying and i showed why and how .. please acknowledge this
 
JimPage said:
come on- you know exactly how the BNP are doing- in yorkshire and elsewhere- underlined against by the 26.6% they polled in scarborough last thursday

if they increase their vote by a further 2.7% they would have won 8 seats in bradford in 2006 inluding taking back keighley

cant we even agree on the basic fact they are doing well and that new thinking is needed- or do you really think the failed tactics of the last 5 years will really work when we are faced with the Biggest ever show by the BNP next may?

agree
 
durruti02 said:
you were wrong in what you were saying and i showed why and how .. please acknowledge this

There always appears a sneer in your response to an anti-fascist campaign though, so I wont aknowledge that if you don't mind thanks.
 
Josh FG said:
the confusion continues who was the threat made by and who is this woman non of this is verifyable or true. But don't let facts get in the way of a good slander.

As for your views on anti fascism that people from Respect/socialist party etc shoud be isolated and those from the jewish community or any community for that matter who are opposed to the war don't have a part in the anti fascist movement if you want a small movement with no following because not everyone aggrees with the revolution line fine but let us get on with the seriouse business of getting rid of the BNP.

Firstly, this confusion is verifiable and the UAF CC is in regular contact with the woman who's name I will not mention here.

"if you want a small movement with no following..." That's about the one thing that UAF has achieved and without the help of Revolution! Actually, we think it's important to relate to those people in communities who have to deal with the reality of BNP violence and racism who will build a real anti-fascist movement, as opposed to the trade union leaders and the tories who lets face it - do not and never will turn up on mass to anti-fascist demonstrations and leaflettings.
 
MC5 said:
Got what wrong?


you were wrong in that you were judging BNP success or failure in yorkshire on the regional data not WARD data .. ( and the key thing is that the vote shows much bigger increases in wards than washed out over the whole region)

i pointed this out and you are not man enough to admit you were wrong
 
durruti02 said:
you were wrong in that you were judging BNP success or failure in yorkshire on the regional data not WARD data .. ( and the key thing is that the vote shows much bigger increases in wards than washed out over the whole region)

i pointed this out and you are not man enough to admit you were wrong

What other way is there to look at how the BNP is doing regionally apart from analysing the regional data you muppet? I was also "judging BNP success" by the very fact that the BNP had lost a seat to Labour they previously held.
 
MC5 said:
What other way is there to look at how the BNP is doing regionally apart from analysing the regional data you muppet? I was also "judging BNP success" by the very fact that the BNP had lost a seat to Labour they previously held.

jesus there is NO point at looking at the regional data .. it is irrelevent in the discussion .. nor looking at one seat the BNP lost .. the key data for yorks is in the ward stats .. and that showed you were wrong .. and you still aint man enough to admit it .. sad
 
durruti02 said:
jesus there is NO point at looking at the regional data .. it is irrelevent in the discussion .. nor looking at one seat the BNP lost .. the key data for yorks is in the ward stats .. and that showed you were wrong .. and you still aint man enough to admit it .. sad

I'll stick to looking at the regional data for the Yorkshire region to get an idea of how the BNP are doing in the Yorkshire region thanks. :rolleyes:
 
MC5 said:
I'll stick to looking at the regional data for the Yorkshire region to get an idea of how the BNP are doing in the Yorkshire region thanks. :rolleyes:

yes but and you will not accept this will you dear oh dear

.. to remind you we were talking about keighly and west yorks NOT yorks in general , and you tried to show how the BNP vote had only slightly increased by qouting regional data . i showed how though that IF you looked a ward data it shows the opposite that in fact the BNP are getting massive increases in votes


your regional that data is almost useless as it masks the real advances being made by the BNP in particular wards ..

you not only amalgamate 'west yorks' into 'yorks and humberside' you lose the fact that the BNP only stand in a small minority of seats therefore regional data is totally irrelevent

why oh why can you not even admit this???
 
durruti02 said:
yes but and you will not accept this will you dear oh dear

.. to remind you we were talking about keighly and west yorks NOT yorks in general , and you tried to show how the BNP vote had only slightly increased by qouting regional data . i showed how though that IF you looked a ward data it shows the opposite that in fact the BNP are getting massive increases in votes


your regional that data is almost useless as it masks the real advances being made by the BNP in particular wards ..

you not only amalgamate 'west yorks' into 'yorks and humberside' you lose the fact that the BNP only stand in a small minority of seats therefore regional data is totally irrelevent

why oh why can you not even admit this???

I accept that the BNP only stand in a small minority of seats, in certain areas and in some of them, not all, a significant percentage (not the majority) will vote BNP. However, I do realise that the BNP have won some seats - this is usually by default due to a low turnout and a protest vote.
 
MC5 said:
I accept that the BNP only stand in a small minority of seats, in certain areas and in some of them, not all, a significant percentage (not the majority) will vote BNP. However, I do realise that the BNP have won some seats - this is usually by default due to a low turnout and a protest vote.

we are getting somewhere .. will you then also accept that it is the increases that are significant and shows up in the ward figues NOT in the regiional figures? this is what after all we were aguing about

http://www.uaf.org.uk/resources/0606ELwards.pdf


http://www.uaf.org.uk/resources/0606ELregion.pdf

p.s. i agree it is still a protest vote .. my worry is that it could change into real fascism when the down turn hits, which is why the idea of community politics as oppossed to anti fascism is doubly more important
 
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