Two more Brits die in Afghanistan.
- Thread starter jiggajagga
- Start date
jaded_youth
Addicted to skiveing
tbaldwin said:
From what i read most of the country is lawless .... who has won what??
Pummelled a few tora-bora caves and carpet bombed the pakistani highlands is about it isn't it??
Body counts only go up in wars. It's not just those that die, however, but those who are seriously injured that should be considered. It's very sad that having reached some kind of peace in Ireland we are now threatened by terrorism within (from other sources) and involved in overseas adventures which have little or nothing to do with our direct national interests. Tony Blair bears a heavy personal responsibility for this.
jiggajagga
Judge_Mental
And two more poor souls are added
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/5137956.stm
What a fecking mess, and I fear more to come. Fish in a barrel all to make Blair feel powerful.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/5137956.stm
What a fecking mess, and I fear more to come. Fish in a barrel all to make Blair feel powerful.
jiggajagga
Judge_Mental
snorbury said:
292 U.S. TROOPS KILLED
and 876 SERIOUSLY INJURED June 2006
jiggajagga
Judge_Mental
JHE
.
Anyone interested in the predicament of British troops in Afghanistan should read Christina Lamb's reportage.
In today's Sunday Times: 'Have you ever used a pistol?'
About halfway through, she adds the following eminently reasonable commentary.
Most of her article is not commentary. It recounts her and our troops' experience when she accompanied them to Zumbelay (in Helmand). I really encourage people to read it.
I'm glad that the British soldiers and their journalist companions survived this particular encounter with the Taliban - but that's about all I'm glad about. I'm not glad that 20-25 Taliban died and I am appalled that our rulers have sent our troops to that hellhole.
The Taliban are Pashtuns. Helmand is part of their land. I loathe their ideology, puritan Islam. I loathe the regime they had for some years until they were dislodged by Western bombing. But it's their dump. Let them and their Pashtun (and other Afghan) opponents sort it all it.
At the moment, there are many fewer British soldiers being killed than Taliban, but I doubt the Taliban are put off by that. The Taliban are not short of volunteers or determination or courage or arms. They know the area and they can relate to the population in ways that British soldiers (however well intentioned) cannot.
Get the troops out, while most are still alive!
In today's Sunday Times: 'Have you ever used a pistol?'
About halfway through, she adds the following eminently reasonable commentary.
Back in the 19th century thousands of Englishmen split their blood on fields like this and I didn’t want to join them. I thought about John Reid, the former defence secretary, glibly saying he hoped to complete the three-year British mission to Helmand without a shot being fired. If this wasn’t a fourth Anglo-Afghan war, it felt very much like it.
Why were we there? Why had we thought the Afghans wouldn’t fight — they defeated the Russians after all. And why did everyone in Kabul and London keep insisting that nobody in Helmand really wanted to support the Taliban but were being forced to?
What if they were wrong? After all, almost everyone in the province now depends on growing poppies. Whatever the British commanders might say, villagers must see the presence of British troops as threatening the opium trade.
I thought back to a conversation with Captain Alex McKenzie, commander of the FSG, before we had left on this patrol. “We’ve never been out to these villages and want to see what kind of reaction we get,” he had said, adding that, according to US intelligence, there were between six and eight medium-level Taliban commanders in the valley just under a mile to the north.
“If you ask me, what we get is a Taliban attack,” I had said to Justin.
Why were we there? Why had we thought the Afghans wouldn’t fight — they defeated the Russians after all. And why did everyone in Kabul and London keep insisting that nobody in Helmand really wanted to support the Taliban but were being forced to?
What if they were wrong? After all, almost everyone in the province now depends on growing poppies. Whatever the British commanders might say, villagers must see the presence of British troops as threatening the opium trade.
I thought back to a conversation with Captain Alex McKenzie, commander of the FSG, before we had left on this patrol. “We’ve never been out to these villages and want to see what kind of reaction we get,” he had said, adding that, according to US intelligence, there were between six and eight medium-level Taliban commanders in the valley just under a mile to the north.
“If you ask me, what we get is a Taliban attack,” I had said to Justin.
Most of her article is not commentary. It recounts her and our troops' experience when she accompanied them to Zumbelay (in Helmand). I really encourage people to read it.
I'm glad that the British soldiers and their journalist companions survived this particular encounter with the Taliban - but that's about all I'm glad about. I'm not glad that 20-25 Taliban died and I am appalled that our rulers have sent our troops to that hellhole.
The Taliban are Pashtuns. Helmand is part of their land. I loathe their ideology, puritan Islam. I loathe the regime they had for some years until they were dislodged by Western bombing. But it's their dump. Let them and their Pashtun (and other Afghan) opponents sort it all it.
At the moment, there are many fewer British soldiers being killed than Taliban, but I doubt the Taliban are put off by that. The Taliban are not short of volunteers or determination or courage or arms. They know the area and they can relate to the population in ways that British soldiers (however well intentioned) cannot.
Get the troops out, while most are still alive!
lostexpectation
New Member
tbaldwin said:
it all depends how many (UK) soldiers have been in contact with opposing forces?
these are the numbers that are never mentioned...
8,587 AFGHAN TROOPS KILLED and 25,761 SERIOUSLY INJURED July 2004
-- IN IRAQ --
30,000 IRAQI TROOPS KILLED
and 90,000 SERIOUSLY INJURED Aug. 2003
and this actually
Taleban rebels in Sangin killed 32 civilians on June 18. Five were initially killed in an ambush and accused by the rebels of working for the Government. When relatives went to collect the bodies, the Taleban killed a further 27 and took 10 hostage.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
As much as I would like to see afganistian as a safe prosperous country.It is our business being there as their poppy fucks up our country .
pity no one got a sane idea to control it .
pity no one got a sane idea to control it .
JHE
.
Didn't the wretched Taliban get it under control when they were in power?dylanredefined said:As much as I would like to see afganistian as a safe prosperous country.It is our business being there as their poppy fucks up our country .
I'm not sure what their method was.
Perhaps it was:
Salaam Alaikum, brother. Grow something else instead of opium or we'll chop your bits off. Allahu akbar!
Or perhaps it was something else.
Anyway, their opium poppy crops are no fuckin' excuse for occupying their country. It's not as if an Afghan army has forced Britain to import the muck or forced anyone to buy it.
I don't disagree with your wish to stop them growing opium, though. If they had a more profitable cash crop, they'd switch. Instead of sending an army, how about paying them to produce something else? It'd be bloodless and a lot cheaper. How's that for a 'sane idea'?
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
JHE said:
Most countries are offering to give the local farmers olive trees and the like to the Afghanistan farmers who ask, but there are two other problems that have to be overcome.
First is the actual market value of the crop planted. iirc, opium was paying over $1000 per acre. Wheat or whatever the sceond most popular crop was running around $160. That's a big difference to a man feeding his family.
The second problem is irrigation. The majority of the land is arid, but there is an irrigation system feeding into most areas. These systems are in major dispair - there have been many, many years of war. Although countries are sending in money to help rebuild the irrigation systems, until the region settles down a bit, progress is slow.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
snorbury said:
I know, let's use the guns to shoot all the users and both problems will be solved.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
Temptingspring-peeper said:
,But probably not best way of doing it .Why not build a morphine factory in afganistian at least they have a legimate market for the poppy ?jiggajagga
Judge_Mental
And number 6 in the last month is with us today. Breaking news
Erm...does anyone here realize that one of the dead British soldiers is actually a Pakistani born muslim? Apparantly both he and his family believe that we are over there for geniune reasons.
Call me naive but while there is an argument against the war in Iraq, I can't see how the west had any choice but to topple the Taleban.
Call me naive but while there is an argument against the war in Iraq, I can't see how the west had any choice but to topple the Taleban.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Latest death reported here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/5151294.stm
jiggajagga
Judge_Mental
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/5233768.stm
drip, drip, drip. The blood continues while Blair is improving his chances of a post Prime Ministerial earnings tour in California.
drip, drip, drip. The blood continues while Blair is improving his chances of a post Prime Ministerial earnings tour in California.
Andy the Don
Wise men say only fools..
jiggajagga said:
What would you do JJ..?? Leave Afghanistan to the Taleban..?? Back to public executions of women, no education of girls & no employment & therefore destitution for women, no cinema, no non-religious music..etc
jiggajagga
Judge_Mental
Andy the Don said:
We are a tiny country trying to play with the big boys. We are tring to punch above our weight. The US blamed the Taleban??? for 9/11 so they made the mess, let them sort it out ffs!
Bring em out of Afghanistan, bring em out of Iraq. The U.S. is always bragging how powerful they are so it should be easy for them to sort out shouldn't it?
British soldiers dying or US soldiers dying. I'm sorry but I vote the Brits to live.
The U.S. has sown, let it reap.
Andy the Don
Wise men say only fools..
jiggajagga said:
Leave Afghanistan to the Americans. Have not the Afghan people suffered enough. If that were to happen I would give it a couple of years before the Americans get bored & the Taleban retake control of the country & Afghanistan slides back into civil war. As it is I give it less than 8 or 10 years before the Taleban comes back & there is another civil war, but at least in the meantime the Afghan government together with international help may be able to build up its strength & credence with the Afghan people so it will be able to resist a return of the Taleban.
lostexpectation
New Member
Andy the Don said:
leave afghanistan to the afhganis, it might sound trite but tis the only way.
jiggajagga
Judge_Mental
lostexpectation said:
Hear hear! Who the fuck do we think we are telling other people how to live their lives? Arrogant bastards that we are!
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