Tube fare rises: Why so keen to get everyone on Oyster?

[beeboo]

Oyster cards are I love it when technology actually does what is supposed to do and makes your life easier.

They need to get the overground trains taking pre-pay, and get some more Oyster ticket buying machines at stations, but it’ll all. They’re improving things all the time. I’m loving the new automatic top-up – I never need buy a ticket ever again, it just tops itself up automatically! Hurrah! And I want to be able to buy a sandwich with it too (it’ll happen!)

Get over it luddites, embrace the Oyster!

 

[El Jugador]

Sorry to be cruel but what a joke

I love my Oystercard, me.

It enables me to give people the last bit of change in my purse because I don't have to worry about having enough money for the journey home.

Can't you just give your change after keeping your fare?

It enables me to lend my friends bus fare home when their banks won't let them take any money out late at night.

How do you buy two tickets with an oyster card? How can you buy the other ticket when they won't accept cash?

It enables me to just walk to the bus stop without having to walk down into the high street to get money out the cashpoint, then have to go and buy something in the shop to get change because the bus drivers never want to change a £10 or £20 note.

What, after you gave away the last of your change? And that means we all have to have them does it?

It means that bus drivers don't carry all that money about, prime targets for mugging.

Just how many bus drivers that you know of have been mugged for their cash till?

And now it automatically tops up when it runs low, so I never need worry if there's enough credit on it for me to complete my journey.

How nice, an automatic help yourself to my bank account card!

I really don't care too much if it can "track my movements" (I've made my feelings known on this before) because I'm not in thehabit of doing anything to give me cause for concern.

It's not what gives you cause for concern that matters but any incumbant nu-nazi government, fool!

 

[beeboo]

BTW, if you use pre-pay, rather than a travelcard, you can legitimately lend your card to someone else.

And as others have mentioned, you can get a Oystercard for pre-pay or weekly travelcards without giving any personal details.

So all that gets tracked is the card, not you, because a) no-one need know who the card belongs to and b) even if they did, there is no reason why it has to be one individual using the card.

 

[lighterthief]

How nice, an automatic help yourself to my bank account card!

Yes, and bloody useful feature that is too.

 

[lighterthief]

And that means we all have to have them does it?

No, it doesn't. But, quite rightly, you will have to pay more for the higher costs and administration of cash-based transactions.

 

[El Jugador]

Can't really be arsed but here's a few pointers:

No, it doesn't. But, quite rightly, you will have to pay more for the higher costs and administration of cash-based transactions.

Fuck that - we're talking about a public service here - since when has paying in cash been grounds for being treated unequally and to have higher prices forced on you?

And where did all the money that created the oyster system come from? All the computer systems, card swiping columns and inspection gizmos? The public purse that's where! Yet you claim that it's the use of cash that has higher costs? You'll still have cash at the station concourse and ticket booths, so what is really creating extra costs eh? So you fill up your oyster at the station, how is that any different to buying a season ticket at the same place? So you like to buy your ticket online, well why can't it be posted to you or collected onsite like a cinema ticket? All this bollocks about oyster being easier, less costly and more efficient is bullshit and the numpty-brained sheeple are simply lapping it up.

"Oh but it's so easy to top up online" - Well what if you don't have a bank account or an email address? Moreover what if you have to busk or beg for your fare?

My main problem with the principle of oyster cards is not so much the personal tracking issue (though that does still matter IMO) but the fact that it is a devious way of introducing fundamentally important steps towards a cashless society - which will be fine for the many affluent, commuting, salaried drones but will be a major problem for people who aren't part of that herd. Such people will be more and more discriminated against and isolated at the edges of society and that is downright wrong.

And meanwhile we have other more practical problems such as:
- You can't travel and buy a fare for someone else on one oyster, unlike buying with cash.
- If there's a problem with your card on a bus (and nothing is infallible) then you're expected to be carrying the right change anyway, to pay with cash and then when the oyster system eventually allows cashless buses to be forced in, you'll be expected to go away and find a roadside ticket machine (moreover one that is actually working) before you can travel anywhere.
- If you come into London by train you're expected to get off the train and go and ping your pesky card and then wait for another train before finishing your journey, all just because their system can't cope with such individualistic behaviour as coming from and going to somewhere unusual.

You oyster-lovers are a bunch of mugs ...but still if it's ok for you then fuck everybody else eh?

 

[Belushi]

My main problem with the principle of oyster cards is not so much the personal tracking issue (though that does still matter IMO) but the fact that it is a devious way of introducing fundamentally important steps towards a cashless society - which will be fine for the many affluent, commuting, salaried drones but will be a major problem for people who aren't part of that herd. Such people will be more and more discriminated against and isolated at the edges of society and that is downright wrong.

Innit, another step towards the totally controlled society.

 

[kea]

what's this automatic top-up malarky?? is that for pay as you go? how does that work then?

 

[PacificOcean]

what's this automatic top-up malarky?? is that for pay as you go? how does that work then?

Yes, for pay and go users. When your credit goes below £5, it automatically takes money from your bank account and tops up your card. I think you can set the amount debited each time.

 

[kea]

REALLY? wow. can you switch that option off?!

 

[PacificOcean]

REALLY? wow. can you switch that option off?!

You have to set it up in the first place.

 

[Kameron]

I really don't care too much if it can "track my movements" (I've made my feelings known on this before) because I'm not in thehabit of doing anything to give me cause for concern.

In Chile members of the Communist Party were happy to have their details on file. There was very little reason for the Party to have their home addresses but they kept them none the less. The party members had no problem with this, they had nothing to hide. Manuel Contreras found it very easy to round them up after Pinochet came to power. They are all dead now.

Who knows what may be a crime in the future. It could never happen here was what the members of the Communist Party though in Chile. I think that we may be skating on thin ice and it is only one of Cheri Blair's Lesbian shower sessions keeping Our Tony from legislating sexual morals.

"I've got nothing to hide" and "It could never happen here" are straw men and should be recognised as such.

 

[Kameron]

Having said that I do like the Oyster Card, it is quicker and easier to use. It saves me haivng to buy Zone extentions and makes getting through gates and on to buses quicker, it is far more robust than the cards even the very plasicy ones got soggy.

However I do have genuine privacy concerns so the Oyser gets thrown away, lost, or given to some random when it only has a few hours and a pound or two left**. I report it lost a get a new card, but unfortunately I never seem to be able to spell my name, DOB, address or anything else correctly and they can never find the previous card. Pity.


**This does mean that I don't use the auto-top-up feature

 

[girasol]

On Thursday morning, 6 October, the Mayor will be on air with Nick Ferrari for his LBC radio phone-in. From 9-10am he will be available to discuss life in the capital. You can ring 0870 90 90 973 or email [email protected] to put a question to the Mayor.

Arse... I've only seen this... Too late to send my questions!
Did anyone hear the interview?

 

[butterfly child]

Sorry to be cruel but what a joke
Can't you just give your change after keeping your fare?
How do you buy two tickets with an oyster card? How can you buy the other ticket when they won't accept cash?
What, after you gave away the last of your change? And that means we all have to have them does it?
Just how many bus drivers that you know of have been mugged for their cash till?
How nice, an automatic help yourself to my bank account card!
It's not what gives you cause for concern that matters but any incumbant nu-nazi government, fool!

Oh, go fuck yourself!

 

[Mrs Miggins]

Couldn't the information gathered on people's travel patterns potentially be used to improve the public transport system? Just a thought.

 

[lighterthief]

Fuck that - we're talking about a public service here - since when has paying in cash been grounds for being treated unequally and to have higher prices forced on you?

Since it has become uneconomical to do so compared with other methods of payment.

And where did all the money that created the oyster system come from? All the computer systems, card swiping columns and inspection gizmos? The public purse that's where!

There certainly will have been a lot of investment in the new system - about £200 million iirc. I'm no expert but I wonder how much this represents in terms of the tube/bus systems annual turnover. And, given that there will be less staff and administration costs with the new system, one would hope that the new technology will pay for itself eventually.

Yet you claim that it's the use of cash that has higher costs?

Well, yes. It has to be kept physically secure and be transported around. Someone has to count out your change and add up the takings at the end of the day. This is more costly than an automatic bank transfer.

You'll still have cash at the station concourse and ticket booths, so what is really creating extra costs eh?

For a while, undoubtedly. But gradually less and less people will be using cash to purchase their tickets. So less machines accepting cash will be required, and less staff handling cash.

So you fill up your oyster at the station, how is that any different to buying a season ticket at the same place?

Well, you can do it online for starters, and collect at your station. You can also use a credit or debit card at the station (no cash involved) or, yes, pay for it with cash - but as stated above I believe less and less people will do this over time.

So you like to buy your ticket online, well why can't it be posted to you or collected onsite like a cinema ticket?

My pre-pay Oystercard was sent to me. And you can collect it onsite. The only problem with this is that you have to 'touch in' on the barrier at a nominated tube station to 'activate' the top up or season ticket - not much use if you only use buses, like me. Hopefully they'll sort this out.

All this bollocks about oyster being easier, less costly and more efficient is bullshit and the numpty-brained sheeple are simply lapping it up.

I disagree.

"Oh but it's so easy to top up online" - Well what if you don't have a bank account or an email address? Moreover what if you have to busk or beg for your fare?

A good point. In that case one would imagine they will have to keep a cash handling facility of some description at tube stations, or allow people to pre-pay in other ways. I would not be happy to see people on low-incomes being charged more for their journeys.

My main problem with the principle of oyster cards is not so much the personal tracking issue (though that does still matter IMO) but the fact that it is a devious way of introducing fundamentally important steps towards a cashless society - which will be fine for the many affluent, commuting, salaried drones but will be a major problem for people who aren't part of that herd. Such people will be more and more discriminated against and isolated at the edges of society and that is downright wrong.

We're moving - for better or worse - towards a cashless society anyway. You don't have to be a "commuting, salaried drone" to enjoy a service that is (IMO) quicker and easier to use.

I do accept that there are real issues for people who do not or cannot maintain a bank account.

And meanwhile we have other more practical problems such as:
- You can't travel and buy a fare for someone else on one oyster, unlike buying with cash.

I agree, that is annoying.

- If there's a problem with your card on a bus (and nothing is infallible) then you're expected to be carrying the right change anyway, to pay with cash and then when the oyster system eventually allows cashless buses to be forced in, you'll be expected to go away and find a roadside ticket machine (moreover one that is actually working) before you can travel anywhere.

To be fair I think Oystercards are fairly durable so one would hope this wouldn't happen too often.

- If you come into London by train you're expected to get off the train and go and ping your pesky card and then wait for another train before finishing your journey, all just because their system can't cope with such individualistic behaviour as coming from and going to somewhere unusual.

Not sure about this but it does sound entirely plausible. Doesn't mean it will always be like that though.

You oyster-lovers are a bunch of mugs ...but still if it's ok for you then fuck everybody else eh?

Hmmm. It does work for me but, as stated above, I'd be happier if steps were taken to ensure those who do not have a bank account were not penalised unduly for my convenience.

 

[Dhimmi]

Couldn't the information gathered on people's travel patterns potentially be used to improve the public transport system? Just a thought.

That's very true, alongside improving commercial supply of whatever travellers choose to buy. It's a good idea and quite a green-friendly move too.
For me the problem is that it's only been developed to the point of being commercially viable, and to hell with the security.
There are some incredible safety possibilities with MiFare systems, fire and emergency systems could not only count how many travellers are within an incident area but also where they are (well the card).
The biggest hole is the scanners working on a free frequency, when or if Oyster fix it price increases will be passed on.
If any part of Oyster worries you as a user just keep it it a tin foil lined pouch except when you're using it.
If you really want something to worry about try a google on Passive Millimetre Radar Imaging. The Met are believed to have some hand held versions of this, as well as a few less portable ones. At first they'll turn up on sports stadia, and large venues, eventually possibly the local supermarket.

 

[Ms T]

I dont understand this. For instance I often travel between Clapton and Liverpool Street and return and use the Oyster Card on the pads at Liverpool Street station. Never had a problem because the pads are there specifically for the Oyster system.

I have a one year card. perhaps there is a difference between these and one day tickets. Anyone know?

BarryB

You can't use pre-pay on overground trains, but you can use travelcards that are on Oyster cards, ifyswim.

The train companies need to be forced to take Oyster pre-pay, imho.

 

[davesgcr]

It also saves a lot of time in cash handling / reconciling / collecting etc for the operators ......let aone the chance of not manning some booking offices - which to be fair - do little business at certain times.

 

[mellowmoose]

Oyster is Oyster. Wonderfully efficent technology.

What we can't trust or forsee are our future governments and their destructive whims.

 

[chio]

The train companies need to be forced to take Oyster pre-pay, imho.

That'd be wonderful - my return train fare (up north) every day is a shade over £2, so to be able to stick twenty quid on an Oyster every couple of weeks would save me worrying about whether I've got enough pound coins lying around!

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

So do the old travel cards (card plus photocard) still exist in London now? Or is it all stuck on the Oyster card?

 

[rdragon]

That's true, it's pretty shit to punish people because they don't have an Oyster card. I have one because I like the convenience of having one, I travel on the tube every day, but on a few occasions I just forgot it at home and had to pay a ridiculous price to get on a bus. It's not fair.

And what about people who don't want to have one? I know they are trying to encourage people to get Oyster cards, but they're going about it the wrong way.

so what would be the "right" way?

 

[PacificOcean]

Couldn't the information gathered on people's travel patterns potentially be used to improve the public transport system? Just a thought.

Or used as an excuse to axe less popular routes.

 

[Phototropic]

Or used as an excuse to axe less popular routes.

Which is the thinking the bastards used when closing all the small rail stations in the 60's

 

[MysteryGuest]

So do the old travel cards (card plus photocard) still exist in London now? Or is it all stuck on the Oyster card?

They still exist, yes. Apart from anything else, on certain overground train lines (WAGN and the North London Link, eg), where there's no interchange with London Underground, there are no oyster terminals - it's like that where I live. Unless I can get to a London Underground station, I have to get an ordinary monthly travelcard.

 

[ck]

Has nobody mentioned the fact that the London transport system is getting RICH , RICH , RICH from the amount of interest which they earn from these cards. How many people top-up their cards and then don't use them for a fair amount of time ? Well , I do for one.

And are they going to improve the service in any way ? The fact that there are less queues seems to be a large selling point , but since when do they give a crap about queues ? The service is so shit that if you save one minute stood in a queue , you'll probably lose that time through delays elsewhere.
(I'm talking mainly about the tube system here as I don't tend to use buses too often)

( I'm trying to cycle more these days but the powers that be state that I can't take my bike on an overland train during peak hours unless it is a fold-up bike. have you seen the sizes of some of the newer fold-up bikes ? Massive they are ! )

 

[Mrs Miggins]

Or used as an excuse to axe less popular routes.

What? Like the Northern Line?

 

[PacificOcean]

What? Like the Northern Line?

You have to give them marks for keep trying with that one. How many times can it go wrong? If I was them I would have given up, shut the line and sold it off to Disney as the worlds longest Space Mountain ride - With the added mystery of emerging in either Edgware or High Barnet!