Trying to learn C++ but falling at the first hurdle.

[longdog]

Try Ubuntu.

I have and it's good but still not as friendly as Windows.

I could say the same about a book on C++. If you don't want to learn...

This is true but missing the point.

Linux zealots don't seem to grasp the concept that in the big wide world of operating systems user friendliness is in itself the killer-app. People don't want to have to learn how to do things they want them to be instinctive and despite its faults Windows is pretty idiot proof.

Most people wouldn't know a command-line if it bit them on the arse and sooner or later (usually sooner) a Linux user is going to have to use one. That's where Linux falls down.

I'd love to see Linux stamp Windows in to the ground but that's a few years off yet.

 

[jayeola]

http://www.softlookup.com/tutorial/c++/index.asp

In the meantime who gives a flying fuck what OS ppl use?

 

[Jonti]

Oh yes, it will take a while -- it's a different way of doing things, a different culture. Take this comment, for example ...

Most people want to be able to click on a link, download a program and have it install itself something which Linux on the whole cannot (or will not) do.

That's the windows way. It's a Really Bad Idea to download a binary from an unknown source and have it install itself.

The Add/Remove function in Ubuntu gives point and click graphical access to a secure warehouse of many hundreds of programs, none of which "install themselves" (or unwanted other bits and pieces) but all of which can be signed into the system by the PC's owner.

An integrated software management system is a hell of lot smarter than having to download software from potentially dodgy or compromised websites. And as a bonus, all of the programs on my Ubuntu systems can be kept up to date with a single click of the mouse

 

[jæd]

People don't want to have to learn how to do things they want them to be instinctive and despite its faults Windows is pretty idiot proof.

Not really. One of the problems I see is people who aren't au fait with computers is browsing dodgy sites. I then come around and for a fee (usually a bottle of wine) muck out of their computers. Not that idiot proof...

Most people wouldn't know a command-line if it bit them on the arse and sooner or later (usually sooner) a Linux user is going to have to use one. That's where Linux falls down.

Sooner or later there's a down side to all operating systems... (And people are scared of things they don't understand. Try explaining Registry Editing when their nice GUI has screwed up. Again.)

 

[jæd]

http://www.softlookup.com/tutorial/c++/index.asp

In the meantime who gives a flying fuck what OS ppl use?

That's why open-source compilers are handy. You can use them anywhere... (And if you get your hands dirty on the command line you'll learn more than getting an IDE to handle it for you...)

 

[longdog]

Not really. One of the problems I see is people who aren't au fait with computers is browsing dodgy sites. I then come around and for a fee (usually a bottle of wine) muck out of their computers. Not that idiot proof...

Idiot proof was probably a bad choice of words. Human nature being what it is people will fuck things up regardless. There has to be a balance between usability by the average man in the street and real idiot-proofing and I think that's where Windows still wins out.

Sooner or later there's a down side to all operating systems... (And people are scared of things they don't understand. Try explaining Registry Editing when their nice GUI has screwed up. Again.)

In all of my 10 or more years of Windows use I've only edited the registry once and that was more for the hell of it than out of necessity.

 

[longdog]

Oh yes, it will take a while -- it's a different way of doing things, a different culture. Take this comment, for example ... That's the windows way. It's a Really Bad Idea to download a binary from an unknown source and have it install itself.

The Add/Remove function in Ubuntu gives point and click graphical access to a secure warehouse of many hundreds of programs, none of which "install themselves" (or unwanted other bits and pieces) but all of which can be signed into the system by the PC's owner.

An integrated software management system is a hell of lot smarter than having to download software from potentially dodgy or compromised websites. And as a bonus, all of the programs on my Ubuntu systems can be kept up to date with a single click of the mouse

I'm pretty sure that if Linux were the dominant OS people would still be downloading and installing malware. People do dumb things.

As for the Ubuntu I think you're giving people more credit than you should. I've farted around with it on and off for a while and installing programs isn't quite as simple as you make it sound.

Even Ubuntu presupposes a degree of knowledge that most people don't have and have no interest in learning. That's where the 'idiot proof' aspect of Windows wins out, you don't have to know anything about computers. Of course it's a two edged sword and idiot proof systems attract idiots but that's life

 

[sleaterkinney]

Stick with windows, it does everything you need it to with a lot less arseing around.

 

[Jonti]

^^^ New Posts surfer ^^^

 

[Jonti]

I'm pretty sure that if Linux were the dominant OS people would still be downloading and installing malware. People do dumb things.

As for the Ubuntu I think you're giving people more credit than you should. I've farted around with it on and off for a while and installing programs isn't quite as simple as you make it sound.

Even Ubuntu presupposes a degree of knowledge that most people don't have and have no interest in learning. That's where the 'idiot proof' aspect of Windows wins out, you don't have to know anything about computers. Of course it's a two edged sword and idiot proof systems attract idiots but that's life

Yes, they do, that's why it's better to make it easier to do things the safe way as ubuntu does! If you have had trouble installing ubuntu software you're simply doing it wrong, probably because you're still in the windows mind set.

Get yourself a liveCD and take a look, OK? Applications --> Add/Remove
You'll see!

Ubuntu is the smart choice for the general user who has never used a PC before. They don't have preconceptions that get in the way, and they are not going to get bitten by security or licensing issues. The interface is very clearly laid out.

Very little 'induction' is needed by the new user. Applications can be found under the Applications menupad, places where you've put your stuff is under Places. Then there's all the other stuff you get to do just because you're doing it on a 'puter. Screensavers, backgrounds, installing software. That's all under System.

But you are a windows power user, if I read this right. So stick with what you know. But get that liveCD because it is one heck of a resource in its own right.

 

[sleaterkinney]

^^^ New Posts surfer ^^^

Do you not get new posts under gmu/linux?

 

[Jonti]

I meant you hadn't been following the discussion.

 

[sleaterkinney]

I meant you hadn't been following the discussion.

Are you the thread police?

I read the whole thread and the posts before mine were talking about switching to linux, I was pointing out that there's no need.

 

[Jonti]

There was no need for you to post, so what on earth are you on about?!

 

[longdog]

Fight! Fight! Fight!

 

[longdog]

Stick with windows, it does everything you need it to with a lot less arseing around.

This is the crux of the matter but I don't expect the linux zealots to admit it for a minute

 

[sleaterkinney]

There was no need for you to post, so what on earth are you on about?!

Who are you to decide what a discussion needs or not?. I thought there was a need so I posted.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Stick with windows, it does everything you need it to with a lot less arseing around.

tbh it doesn't, everyone just thinks that the things it doesn't do are normal

 

[sleaterkinney]

tbh it doesn't, everyone just thinks that the things it doesn't do are normal

What can't you do on windows then?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

One _can_ do anything possible with a computer with Windows. It's Turing-complete. The question is whether there's less arseing around and that I would certainly dispute. There's no difference with standard tasks like moving files about and that sort of shit, and for anything more complex, Windows is worse; it's been deliberately crippled in fact.

 

[sleaterkinney]

You're talking about Apple I presume?. I don't have a lot of experience doing complicated stuff with on that but you do pay a big premium. What complex tasks are you referring to?.

 

[Jonti]

...
Hackers access to your television?

Bollocks

What are you saying, that there's no potential for that kind of technology?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

You're talking about Apple I presume?. I don't have a lot of experience doing complicated stuff with on that but you do pay a big premium. What complex tasks are you referring to?.

No, any standard *nix system. Say, you want to rename all of the .txt files in a directory to be lowercase or something like that. I could say "open a terminal and type rename 'y/A-Z/a-z/' *" or I could say "uh, there's probably a program you can download that does that, might give you spyware, I dunno, have a google".

I can't think of any standard task that's actually harder on Linux than on Windows at all, on the other hand, which would be why I use Ubuntu on my main PC rather than Windows. If Windows was easier I'd use it, but it's not.

 

[miss minnie]

virtualbox is fun

 

[Jonti]

Meanwhile, a windows user comments ...

Im writing tnis on my fone as now my pc just bleeps and wont load at all. I am in tears and at my wits end. I have no idea what to do now. its also tricky accessing pms on my fone arghhh!

 

[sleaterkinney]

No, any standard *nix system. Say, you want to rename all of the .txt files in a directory to be lowercase or something like that. I could say "open a terminal and type rename 'y/A-Z/a-z/' *" or I could say "uh, there's probably a program you can download that does that, might give you spyware, I dunno, have a google".

I've used computers for 18 years and I've never needed to do that, why would anyone need to do that?.

I can't think of any standard task that's actually harder on Linux than on Windows at all, on the other hand, which would be why I use Ubuntu on my main PC rather than Windows. If Windows was easier I'd use it, but it's not.

Oh come on, Linux needs a great deal of knowledge which you probably already have so you can't make an objective assessment, give it to a normal person and see how they get on.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

What is harder to do on Linux than on Windows?

Apart from run Windows executables, obviously. I think we can take that one as a given. What things would "normal people" find harder?

 

[kained&able]

install hardware!

the ammount of people i know who have had problems getting a dvd player to work properly under a linux system is well more then a couple anyway.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

install hardware!

What hardware?

 

[sleaterkinney]

Meanwhile, a windows user comments ...

You've told her to run Linux, that'll sort her.