Trump and Russia - A theory thread

Discussion in 'world politics, current affairs and news' started by Don Troooomp, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. Don Troooomp

    Don Troooomp Condescension and embedded self importance

    It's either that or Trump is an even bigger idiot than I take him for.
  2. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives


    Here's a crazy idea why don't you actually make an argument, one with facts and reasoning, rather than just posting unevidenced reckonings?
    sealion and NoXion like this.
  3. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree Unintended gear-stick action

    I don't necessarily think that the hold is blackmail as such; Trump has been obsessed with building in Moscow for 30 years and has returned to the subject over and over again. On the other hand, his US-based business has been heavily dependent on Russian money. It's difficult to imagine that there has been no dirty dealing done. Though enough for Putin to threaten him?

    The comparison with Merkel/Macron - Obama is spurious: Obama has not had numerous dealings with German and French oligarchs who have to be in with the respective regimes to be allowed to operate. To some extent they are the regime in Russia.

    Opinion | A history of Donald Trump’s business dealings in Russia

    Another thing that might attract Trump is that Putin is exactly the kind of authoritarian that he would like to be. He has expressed his admiration on numerous occasions:

    How do I love thee? Newsweek has counted the ways that Trump loves Putin so you don't have to

    Trump doesn't have to know he's an asset to be one.
    Tankus, CRI and krtek a houby like this.
  4. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

    If you take maybe 10 minutes to read a Twitter thread with any kind of anti-Trump or anti Sanders slant, particularly if it includes posts from folks with a liberal (in the American sense) political stance, and especially women of colour, and you see them flock in like vultures on a carcass. They're often pretty easy to spot with the stock photo blonde avatars, misspellings and not quite right grammar, low follower and following count but huge post count (a combination of mundane things like sports and beauty mixed with hashtag filled political content,) etc,

    Some of it is probably automated, and other accounts are real people who are alerted to convos with particular key words, so they flock in to "participate."

    Put their handles in this website and it tells you how likely they are to really be a "Susan, Nebraskan stay at home mom of three" or or "Yvgeny, a bored beardie bloke in a St Petersburg call centre."
  5. Combustible

    Combustible Well-Known Member

    The main evidence from that article is that both Trump and Putin denounce the claim that Putin interfered in the election on behalf of Trump. Because surely if Trump were not an asset he would openly admit he benefited from the interference of a foreign power.
  6. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    Am I being really dense and this is satire or are you seriously suggesting that denials actually constitute evidence of guilt?
  7. Combustible

    Combustible Well-Known Member

    It was a poor attempt at sarcasm on my part, but that seems to be what the article was suggesting

    DotCommunist, redsquirrel and NoXion like this.
  8. SpackleFrog

    SpackleFrog Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts

    Because people disagreeing with you on Twitter is a Russian plot :rolleyes::facepalm:
    Sunset Tree and sealion like this.
  9. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby this means nothing to me

    Whereas, people disagreeing with you on urban is a liberal plot :D
    Opera Buffa and CRI like this.
  10. Dogsauce

    Dogsauce Lord of the Dance Settee

    Can't anybody think of any other groups of people that might want to argue with US liberals and assorted non-white or non-male people on the internet? Maybe a group that is over-represented in the tech industry, maybe a group that wouldn't particularly care if it looked like their messages originated in Russia? Or think of any deep-pocketed political opponents with a bit of technical nous that would know that Russian and other assorted countries in that region are the go-to place for capable internet bad guys that are more than happy to offer their services for a good price, state-connected or not. Join the fucking dots, it's not that hard.

    Nah, it's just Putin because Trump wants to build a shitty hotel in Moscow or something.
  11. Rimbaud

    Rimbaud Well-Known Member

    Don't be naive. There are definitely paid propagandists out there. Chinese internet forums is full of people who are paid to manipulate and direct discussion, and if you look at comment threads on SCMP news articles they are spammed full of pro-CCP posts. Likewise if you look at questions about Tiananmen Square or whatever on Quora it is similar. I don't think it is far-fetched to imagine that Russia does the same, it is a pretty inexpensive and effective way to spread propaganda.
    CRI and krtek a houby like this.
  12. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    CRI likes this.
  13. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist slowtime

    no one's claiming thtey don't exist. Long before trump you even had some spamming here, before during and a little while after the ukranian conflict. So quite a bit before twat had thrown his maga hat into the ring. How the troll network (as rimbaud notes they aren't the only ones at it so this is SOP) contributes to 'russian hacking' and connects up to whatever shenanigans mueller thinks he has on trump, or is looking for- well. thats where the green crayons have been coming out, the louise mensh at 3am thinking.
    NoXion, SpackleFrog and bimble like this.
  14. SpackleFrog

    SpackleFrog Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts

    No, you self important twat. You're not a plot. You're just a twat.
  15. SpackleFrog

    SpackleFrog Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts

    Where did I say that governments - Western ones included - do not employ spammers?

    Read before you post next time.
  16. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby this means nothing to me

    CRI likes this.
  17. J Ed

    J Ed Follow Back Pro Expropriation

    Are Russia alone in this? No. In fact, the Clinton campaign spent millions on people misrepresenting themselves as ordinary actors on social media when in fact they were paid trolls. It is a nerfarious and worrying new political tactic, but the idea that it is Red Dawn because CRI is being called a soy boy on twitter by some moron who almost certainly is not a Russian agent is ridiculous.

    In fact, CRI's incoherent and angry attitude towards people with politics to the right of European social democracy probably is a much clearer and more successful example of social media manipulation than anything directed from Russia.
  18. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby this means nothing to me

    Tbf, CRI is not alone with the incoherent and angry attitudes here. Questioning Russian involvement in meddling with other countries affairs can result in responses veering from whataboutery to downright hostility.

    I don't believe anyone is questioning the US' long history of interfering with other countries affairs, democratically elected govts. Be it through CIA action, propaganda and online minions. It's a given that that's how it operates, no matter which stooge is in the White House.
    CRI likes this.
  19. J Ed

    J Ed Follow Back Pro Expropriation

    Is this supposed to be a really meta post about whataboutery which is somehow going over my head?
    seventh bullet and SpackleFrog like this.
  20. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby this means nothing to me

    No, it's a reply to your post. Fear not. Nothing I say will go over your head.

    We've established that Russia are not alone in this practice. I agree that it is a worrying tactic and I worry if and when it bleeds into everything. It will generate suspicion and angst - if it's not doing so already.

    Pompeo said the other day that his agency will be stealing info etc. He was boasting about it.With all that and military parades going off all over the place, the new cold war seems more "open" and in your face than ever. I'm wondering just where it leads to, down the road?
    CRI likes this.
  21. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

    Who died and made you Emperor?
  22. SpineyNorman

    SpineyNorman it was already like that when I got here

    Nobody died. He's mates with Putin so just got on the blower to Vlad and he sorted it like he did for Trump.
    SpackleFrog likes this.
  23. SpackleFrog

    SpackleFrog Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts

    He's a nice lad that Putin. Even offered to open up a whole new data centre in Moscow for the sole purpose of trolling CRI. I said "Vlad, you don't have to do that mate. But go on, it'll be funny."
    redsquirrel likes this.
  24. Archimage

    Archimage Kat Knapper

  25. SpackleFrog

    SpackleFrog Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts

  26. Archimage

    Archimage Kat Knapper

    or maybe money laundering?
  27. SpackleFrog

    SpackleFrog Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts

    FFS get a clue mate. What possible reason do you have for thinking it could be related to money laundering?

    Billionaires do this all the time, buy up prime real estate at rock bottom prices and make huge profits. Which is by the way completely obscene. But I guess if you had a problem with people using their vast wealth to create even more vast wealth, then you'd have to have a go at Democrat billionaires as well wouldn't you...
  28. Tankus

    Tankus living someone else's dream.

    ..... except it was bought just before peak market ....and sold AFTER property prices had bombed in the US during the sub prime bollocks .....when trump was bankrupt .....It should have been a fire sale in a property market falling off the edge of a cliff.....

    Also ...that oligarchs private plane turned up at a couple of airports in the same places when trump was doing his pre election rallies , and post election ..Trump states "they never met"

    the oligarch never lived there , never viewed it before the sale ...
    and in his divorce ..
    Why did a Russian pay $95M to buy Trump’s Palm Beach mansion?

    worth a look , dontcha think
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
    CRI likes this.
  29. tim

    tim Well-Known Member

    NoXion likes this.
  30. camouflage

    camouflage "marginalia".


    Finally mainstream.
    sealion and maomao like this.

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