Trump and Russia - A theory thread

Discussion in 'world politics, current affairs and news' started by Don Troooomp, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. Don Troooomp

    Don Troooomp Condescension and embedded self importance

    The more I look at the mess Trump is making of the world, especially in the US, the more I see him as working for the Russians.
    It's very clear the Russians had several meeting with Trump/Team Trump, but even all that doesn't add up to the story we're given in the way we're told it does.

    1 - Russia is allowing information out that's damaging to Trump and confirming Russian ties to Trump and Team Trump
    2- Russia is allowing their internet bot to be identified as Russian far too easily
    3 - The Russian bots are retweeting stuff that adds to the collusion theory.

    Stuff like this is the killer for me.

    A Top Russian Spy Chief Visited the U.S. Despite Sanctions

    This came out of Russia, meaning to me they intend to damage Trump and stir up more argument.

    To the point - I now believe Russia did put Trump in place but NOT to help them directly, more to act as a village idiot with the intention of weakening the US political system and US influence around the world.

    If I can't beat arguments against my idea, it must be wrong.

    Fire away :)
     
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  2. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

    It's hard to know the exact detail. Perhaps he's being blackmailed, but it would have to be something pretty serious they have on him, as there is plenty of evidence of his corruption and illegal activities in plain sight. Perhaps more likely is he owes them money, big money, as he'd been unable to get finance from North American or European lenders. Possibly either or both of these are true or are also true of other people close to him - family or close associates.

    It's also possible that he's such a dunce that he genuinely sees Putin as a kindred soul, or the kind of leader he thinks he is. Maybe he thinks Putin and the members of the Russian government he's communicated with are his pals and he can see no harm in doing favours for friends. As a kleptocrat himself, he no doubt has plenty in common with the wealthy, powerful people in Russia who gleefully exploit the country and people for private gain.

    And of course, he seems to be motivated to believe the opposite and do the opposite of everything his predecessor did. If Obama expelled Russian diplomats, then perhaps he feels he has to see them as his best buds. His most loyal supporters seem to see Putin as a strong leader and good Christian, so being cordial toward him is yet another way to keep them on side.

    I don't know that the Russian government specifically wanted Trump to be president, although I doubt they were keen on Clinton being president, either, as they presumed she would continue Obama's policy of criticising their military actions in Syria and Ukraine, human rights abuses at home, etc. And of course that's what has happened - rarely a criticism of Russian policy coming from the White House, refusing to impose the sanctions voted in by Congress, etc. However, I think they'd have probably preferred a "standard issue" Republican President who'd be less unpredictable, but would still let off some of the pressure so they could continue to follow their domestic and foreign policy fairly unimpeded.

    It has been shown that there were thousands of fake Facebook accounts and still are paid trolls and bots on Twitter originating in and around Russia. They post a combination of mundane stuff - often sports or entertainment related, intermixed with specifically political content, although not all right wing / pro Trump stuff. I've seen what are clearly troll accounts arguing between each other in broken English, one pretending to support Black Lives Matter and the other with confederate flags and America First in their profiles. I suppose the idea is to draw people in for a stooshie.

    Someone is paying them, and it can't just be for shits and giggles, and the posts in themselves can't be making money either, like say a scam would. I suspect it's more to sow division and insecurity among people in America.
     
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  3. Don Troooomp

    Don Troooomp Condescension and embedded self importance

    I see Putin as a bit of a bastard but not stupid, that leading me to ask why the Russian bots are so easily identified when they could hide them without that much of a problem.
    The other thing is all the damaging stuff coming out of Russian news agencies, stuff that is gold to the anti-Trump people but, if Russia wanted to hide collusion, they should be keeping hidden.
    That has to be deliberate so it makes me wonder if Trump is their village idiot, there to sow discord in the US and shag that country's image around the world.
    As for Putin's control over Trump, could be cash but it could be as simple as recordings of contacts between their people and Trump's lot.
    There would have been little to stop the Russians recording the 'adoption' meeting then guiding Trump along with the threat of releasing the tapes.
    I suppose it could be a mix, Russia threatening Trump with financial ruin (or offering big loans with low interest), setting up the meeting, recording it, and Bob's your uncle.
     
  4. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

    Perhaps so. It's true, there seems to have been little attempt to hide efforts by the Russian government, or others close to it, to hide their efforts. But, the sad thing is that there seems the Republican dominated congress and a large section of the American population seem completely nonplussed about it. Some deny it's there, even in the face of available evidence. Others agree it's happening, but can't see why that's a problem.

    This was the thing that I think caught many Americans who see themselves as anything from moderate Republicans to those on the Left of the Democratic Party by surprise. They still thought what we know now as "Trump's base" to be some extremist element that "good" Republicans would surely want to distance themselves from. Naive I suppose, in hindsight.

    So, it's not all about who's in the White House. Trump would have never got any of his policies through and probably would have been impeached almost off the bat if the GOP led Congress were opposed to them. Instead, they either ignored, denied or justified his actions, and were happy to bend rules to push his agenda, like the appointment of Gorsuch to the Supreme Court.
     
  5. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist specter haunting

  6. Fez909

    Fez909 toilet expert

    Trump = 5 letters, values 20, 18, 21, 13, 16 = 59
    Putin = 5 letters, values 16, 21, 20, 9, 14 = 66
    Trump age 71, Putin age 65 = Ratio 1.16
    56 * 1.16 is 68, minus the two calendar years that trump has been president and you get....dun dun DUN 66!

    Trump/Putin loominati fucken CONFIRMED!!!!111one :eek:
     
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  7. salem

    salem Well-Known Member

    Personally I go along with the theory that Putin is happy to destabilize the US/West and Trump is a useful tool in that quest.

    However I think that there is a lot of opportunism going on rather then this all being a single well planned sequence of events. Anything that undermines the US/West, sows discord, breaks apart cohesion between countries, seeds doubt in the populace is a win for Putin. Even if Hillary had won there would still be close to half the population pissed off and angry - that those people actually took control rather then just acting as a destabilising force is a lucky bonus.

    And Putin leaving his fingerprints all over it plays well to the home crowd - I think he likes the idea of being an evil mastermind type even if the reality is he is just a very good shit stirrer.
     
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  8. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

    Yes, this. Leaders like Putin don't lie to deceive the people, like say Nixon did. Nixon didn't want to be found out, insisted he wasn't a crook. If ever challenged about a lie, Putin's denials are pure pantomime.

    The open lies and corruption are demonstrations of his power, including power to control the narrative. Those who look to him for strength and certainty as a leader love these shows.

    Perhaps they convince themselves that they are good Russians and would never do anything to be on the Government's bad side. Their parents managed that under previous regimes. They're convinced trading liberty for security is worth it.

    Trump and the GOP have followed just the same playbook, with great success -particularly those already used to accepting preposterous things as true, aka fundamentalist Christians.

    The more trump lies, the more his most ardent supporters love him. The more they, too, lie to themselves and others to shore up a version of reality that they like (e.g. the video on the other thread of the group of women saying Trump was annointed by God, so can basically do anything and they'll still adore him.)

    Back to Putin, yes, shit stirring has been enough to get the US off Russia's economic and policy back, and has opened new, useful links into US government and defense tech, should these be needed in future.

    edit - to correct typo!
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  9. J Ed

    J Ed Follow Back Pro Expropriation

  10. Idris2002

    Idris2002 the liberation forces make movies of their own

    Whatever else Vladimir Putin may be, he is not a fool.

    And only a fool would hire Donald Trump for any sort of job, including that of destroying America from within.
     
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  11. J Ed

    J Ed Follow Back Pro Expropriation

    The, entirely verified allegations here, are far more serious than anything that has been verified re: Russia.

     
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  12. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist specter haunting

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  13. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

    Laughs that anyone takes the Intercept or Jacobin seriously.
     
  14. J Ed

    J Ed Follow Back Pro Expropriation

    Alt-left fake news
     
  15. Idris2002

    Idris2002 the liberation forces make movies of their own

    Don't like my posts again.

    I'm actually disgusted by your smear on the Russian people. If any of them support Putin, it's because under him they finally got some stability back after the horrors of the 1990s, horrors deliberately encouraged by Hilary's husband among others. That doesn't let anyone who suppports VP off the hook, but it doesn't rebound to your credit either, Senator.

    DULHyCzX0AMWN0b.jpg large.jpg
     
  16. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

    I am no more critical of the Russian people than I am of my own people, Americans. Both are being royally shafted by kleptocratic leaders who hold power through fear. You clearly haven't understood any of my posts if you think I'm just falling for reds-under-the-beds bullshit.

    Suggest you put me on ignore. I will do the same if you like, so I you won't have to feel sullied by me agreeing with anything you've said. :rolleyes:
     
  17. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

    Attributed to Benjamin Franklin, 1755.
     
  18. J Ed

    J Ed Follow Back Pro Expropriation

    Does that apply to the mass surveillance of all digital communication globally, an infrastructure built up during the Obama administration, as well or just stuff related to whatever the latest Trump outrage is?
     
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  19. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    So why shouldn't anyone take Jacobin seriously? I mean I can understand why you wouldn't like it, because it's opposed to your (horrible) liberal politics but that's different from saying people shouldn't take it seriously. It's got more content in one article than the twitter rubbish you've posted since you joined U75.
     
  20. seventh bullet

    seventh bullet red mullet

    You haven't got a clue about Russian people, Russian society, and why Putin has had considerable support over the years.
     
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  21. seventh bullet

    seventh bullet red mullet

    You're disgusting and an idiot.
     
  22. 2hats

    2hats

    That surveillance infrastructure has been built up and upon throughout every single administration since at least 1971.
     
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  23. J Ed

    J Ed Follow Back Pro Expropriation

    Yes, I know, so what I have said is true.
     
  24. 2hats

    2hats

    I didn’t/don't dispute it. I set it in context.
     
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  25. Idris2002

    Idris2002 the liberation forces make movies of their own

    Vhy didn't you tell ze vorld, eh?

    [​IMG]
     
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  26. Don Troooomp

    Don Troooomp Condescension and embedded self importance

    Unless he wanted a fool in he job to mash up everything possible, thus leaving other powers to make gains as the US loses grip.
     
  27. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree Unintended gear-stick action

    CRI and krtek a houby like this.
  28. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    The whole thing just gets more and more nebulous. Are there actual bots or is that a liberal invention?
     
    CRI likes this.
  29. mojo pixy

    mojo pixy unquantifiable hazards

    Trump is a fucking idiot, vain, self-absorbed and easily provoked. He's absolutely a weak point in US politics and security. If I were the leader of a major rival I'd sure as shit be pushing at this idiot and his entourage in every conceivable way so as to gain advantages while it's easy. That anyone would be surprised at this is itself a big surprise IMO.
     
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  30. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    Is there any evidence that there is any such "hold"?

    Why can't the mutual backslapping just be a certain coinciding of interests in certain areas. Just, as J Ed pointed out, like with Israel, SA, etc

    EDIT: This whole hold talk is nonsense, or are people going to question what "hold" Merkel/May/Macron have over St Obama.
     
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