trouble in thailand looming - thaksin's days numbered?

[gnoriac]

I think it's v difficult to see a post-Thaksin Thailand. Even if he is genuinely withdrawing from politics, which I have my doubts about, he's riddled the state apparatus with relatives and cronies.
Moreover, there's still the question of where an alternative govt could come from. An awful lot of politicians jumped ship to TRT even after Thaksin's 1st landslide, leaving the other parties even weaker than before. It's not like the UK where when party A falls from power, party B's shadow cabinet is simply slotted in.
If TRT remain in power with Thaksin in the backroom manipulating events, there's a possibility that things could get hairier in that he's lost face big-time, something which has no real counterpart in w. politics, but might be rather destabilizing in Asia?
Hope it does work out, it could be the start of a genuine democracy in Thailand. Let's not forget it took about 300 years in the UK (from overthrow of absolute monarchy to univeral suffrage in 1946).

 

[fela fan]

Hope it does work out, it could be the start of a genuine democracy in Thailand. Let's not forget it took about 300 years in the UK (from overthrow of absolute monarchy to univeral suffrage in 1946).

This is the angle i prefer to look at things. It was not only thaksin they were calling for, it was the things he's done that they rejected. I know corruption is not exactly small over here, but thaksin took it to new levels, while pretending to be the poor man's defender.

For me, if someone is ousted in this manner, by the people, then all subsequent leaders will know what they can't do if they don't wish to suffer the same fate.

Incidentally, and remembering i have no real trust of any politicians anywhere, the new leader of the democrats party speaks the right speak.

But then they all do that don't they! Also the governor of bangkok is young and seems to be proving himself by his actions. There is a new kind of people who are waiting in the wings to advance this nation. They need a strong leader. Thaksin was that, but he got too greedy and let everyone down. People had invested hope in him, where before they preferred military men to the lying greedy politicians. Maybe he will be the buffer man between the old style politician, and the new style...

And another cause for optimism is the constitution, which really is a fine one.

Basically my sixth sense tells me this will be seen in hindsight as a turning point for this nation.

A positive one.

 

[fela fan]

Let's hope that "real" change occurs for the poor of the country.



Woof

The ironical thing is that thaksin has sold out to the world bank over free trade agreements, and he has left the leadership having created a monstrous debt situation. The poor, many of them, now have debts they never had before thaksin came in.

They are worse off than before.

 

[lostexpectation]

are they better off not having military rulers?

 

[fela fan]

are they better off not having military rulers?

Yes.

Democracy is still young in this country. It takes time to take root.

I've been hearing about the voting stations. Booths were for the first time open, such that others could see how you were voting. The 'no' vote was at the bottom of the list, the thaksin party at the top of the list. People were in the polling stations, obviously observing people voting. We know for sure this happened in chiang mai, but there were reports in the nation newspaper, so it wasn't just in thaksin's home town.

A nastier piece of work i've not seen in over two decades of following politics.

 

[neprimerimye]

Such blase cynical side-sniping commentary. How do you know if the philippines or indonesia are no better places than they were before?

How do you know what has happened since those days?

The same you do. I observe events and talk to people on the ground.

All of whom are of the opinion that the living stabndards of the mass of workers and peasants have not improved. All of whom are of the opinion that nothing has dented the power of the big landlords and capitalists leave alone the MNCs. As for the influence of the USA in these countries it has not lessened.

Like it or loathe it, I loathe it, the regimes in both the Phillipines and Indonesia are clients of the World Bank and IMF. They owe more to Dubya than they do to those who elected them.

That said there are positives to the overthrow of the tyrannical regimes that were overthrown in the Philipines and Indonesia. Workers and peasants now have the freedom to organise as do socialists for the first time in long decades. Although even that limited freedom does not prohibit murder on the part of the democratic regime or the rich landlords in either country. Nor is it unlimited as the socialists, including friends of mine, who were arrested for attending a conference on workers rights can attest to.

So i'm pleased that thaksin is to become a bad memory but realistically unless the new regime can turn to the IMF and tell them to fuck off with the support of the masses then a mere regime change is not going tomake much difference. and talk about 300 years of change is stupid you simply don't have 300 years.

 

[Thomas777]

Thanks mate, it is. Nice of you to pop in and say so. I've lived here for the majority of my adult life, it's my country of choice, and i care for it deeply. While i recognise some of the things he's done have been popular with many of the poorer sections of society, he's nothing but a dictator. Yet again the king restores harmony and order to society here.

[He resigned just after a meeting called by the king]

I actually feel optimistic for thai politics. He's gone coz a huge amount of people came to see their leader as having no legitimacy. Furthermore, he's gone without the pre-emptive violence that has been thailand's history with dictators. To me that shows maturity within their relatively new democracy.

Basically it's nice to see democracy in action! And they done fantastically well.

Democracy in action? What about the 100s of thousands of poor in rural Thailand who have been given affordable healthcare for the first time in decades aswell as other favourable policies. Not only that but Thaksin did win the hastily called election what happens to the votes of millions who feel that he has been running the country well despite his profit making? Is that Democracy in action? As for the King who voted for him? Why should he have the power to tap the democratically elected leader on the shoulder and decide that he should go so he can have a pleasant celebration of 60 years of privalge at the expence of the masses..

Come on Fela... I used to think you had your finger on the pulse of your Country of choice.. Those who have shouted loudest in the city of Bangkok have forced a decent man to step down and the voting majority in Thailand are having their vote ignored.. Democracy MMmm.....

 

[gnoriac]

You wouldn't be a reincarnation of Thomas77 perchance? The only pro-Thaksin u75er ever, who got outed by geordietim for being somewhat less than truthful.

 

[fela fan]

Come on Fela... I used to think you had your finger on the pulse of your Country of choice.. Those who have shouted loudest in the city of Bangkok have forced a decent man to step down and the voting majority in Thailand are having their vote ignored.. Democracy MMmm.....

I trust you're not expecting a reply from me. This is all you're getting anyway.

 

[fela fan]

nepri...

... i know what you're saying. Coming from certain angles i agree with you.

I'm just choosing to look at things via an alternative context this time. Part of which is optimism and hope...!

 

[Thomas777]

If you must insist on giving your viewpoint from within then address the points below!!

TAKE THE BLINKERS OFF AND SEE THE SITUATION FOR WHAT IT IS!!!

Democracy in action? What about the 100s of thousands of poor in rural Thailand who have been given affordable healthcare for the first time in decades aswell as other favourable policies. Not only that but Thaksin did win the hastily called election what happens to the votes of millions who feel that he has been running the country well despite his profit making? Is that Democracy in action? As for the King who voted for him? Why should he have the power to tap the democratically elected leader on the shoulder and decide that he should go so he can have a pleasant celebration of 60 years of privalge at the expence of the masses..

Come on Fela... I used to think you had your finger on the pulse of your Country of choice.. Those who have shouted loudest in the city of Bangkok have forced a decent man to step down and the voting majority in Thailand are having their vote ignored.. Democracy MMmm.....

 

[gnoriac]

No mention of his corruption, nepotism and bribery? Or do you regard that as 'democratic'?

 

[Thomas777]

No mention of his corruption, nepotism and bribery? Or do you regard that as 'democratic'?

I call the above politics and business and if you don't know that then your incredibly niave!

 

[ZWord]

As I don't know anything about Thai politics, I don't really have a viewpoint on this. But, I do wonder if Thomas77? has a point, I mean, if it's true that Thaksin is massively popular among the rural poor, then he can't be all bad. And for some reason the scenario sounds not unlike Venezuela, where Chavez is also very unpopular among the educated and the middle classes but has huge support from the rural poor.

And as I haven't followed this at all, I don't know what happened, but as far as I know it's not democracy when a leader who more than fifty percent of the country support has to leave office. It certainly sounds like it's a fact that he's corrupt, but that's fairly normal. Could it be that actually despite being corrupt, he's actually implemented policies that help the poor, and that this is the main reason for his unpopularity with the middle classes.?

 

[gnoriac]

I think a more apt comparison would be Berlusconi.

In Venzuela Chavez is undertaking genuine, radical change whereas Thaksin, once in power, used the state's coffers to buy popularity. No 2 ways about it though, the 30B health care scheme and cheap loans for villages are more than any other leader has done for the rural poor AFAIK. He was pretty popular with the urban middle-classes too, for a while, particularly with closing down a lot of the nightlife, which in their eyes had been giving Thailand a bad reputation. Howver his latest dodgy deal appears to have finally turned a lot of them against him.

As for TRT's showing in the poll, it has to be qualified by a whole load of the opposition boycotting it, TRT's stranglehold on the media and allegations of dodgy practices in the South.

 

[gnoriac]

I call the above politics and business and if you don't know that then your incredibly niave!

You're not in PR by any chance?

 

[ZWord]

Well, I'd be interested to know if in the future, whoever takes over reverses the policies Thaksin put in to help the rural poor, or leaves them in place.

 

[Jessiedog]

Oh dear.

It's not over yet.

This I feared.



Woof

 

[gnoriac]

It's not over yet.

You mean this?
Thai PM back at head of cabinet

Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has chaired his first cabinet meeting since stepping aside from front-line politics seven weeks ago.

"I am fully back at work," Mr Thaksin told Thai media before the meeting.

A lot of people (myself included) assumed he was gonna remain in control but stay in the background. Seems like he just brazened it out.

 

[Jessiedog]

Aye.

Harry in the SCMP today is up to speed as usual.

Woof

 

[Streathamite]

If you must insist on giving your viewpoint from within then address the points below!!

TAKE THE BLINKERS OFF AND SEE THE SITUATION FOR WHAT IT IS!!!

jesus. let me explain; a demagogue who is good at getting votes is STILL a demagogue. hitler would have won ANY election held in germany between 1933 and 1941, ditto Mussolini in Italy 1925-1939