trouble in thailand looming - thaksin's days numbered?

[Jessiedog]

But surely even if Thaksin stands aside and the recently promoted Deputy Prime Minister steps up (yesterday he was the Justice Minister), it'll still be Thaksin pulling the strings to a significant extent?

Only a real change of government will be meaningful and it would seem that this isn't actually on the table at the moment.



Woof

 

[Streathamite]

sadly true

 

[Lock&Light]

But surely even if Thaksin stands aside and the recently promoted Deputy Prime Minister steps up (yesterday he was the Justice Minister), it'll still be Thaksin pulling the strings to a significant extent?

I often wonder why there are so many people who think Gordon Brown will be very much different to Blair.

 

[fela fan]

ta for that bro!
just got this off the beeb; thaksin could be preparing to go
that or it's yet another wriggle

An eel on ecstacy couldn't keep up with thaksin.

He will only be forced kicking and screaming from office. Thing is, it's not just the power and ego that's directing his actions. He could be criminally charged or even have to flee the country. The crimes and corruptions he's been up to have barely been scratched upon.

Never mind the way he's divided this country. It's a crime of the highest order. Brother and sister being pitted against brother and sister.

Over fucking politics. Fuck, politics is a disgrace.

 

[fela fan]

But surely even if Thaksin stands aside and the recently promoted Deputy Prime Minister steps up (yesterday he was the Justice Minister), it'll still be Thaksin pulling the strings to a significant extent?

Only a real change of government will be meaningful and it would seem that this isn't actually on the table at the moment.



Woof

It's not unlikely at all that thaksin may have to leave the country. Once all his misdemeanours come out (he's managed a pretty successful censorship of the media in his time) he would face jail.

Either way, the people, across all (ALL) sections of society are asking him to get out. From what they always told me democracy is about, thai people are currently exercising this. In a most impressive way indeed.

Anyone coming in will have seen what happens if they become like thaksin.

And no, jessie, if he leaves, he has to leave politics full time. He will have no more influence at all. The only way he will still be in power at year's end is if all the demonstrators decide to just give up their protest.

But they won't. They've been at it for five months now. Total kudos to the thais for remaining patient and for the way they've conducted their affairs.

Thaksin will be gone any day now. And if by chance doesn't leave soon and he then gets reelected on April 2 (difficult since the main opposition parties are boycotting the election, leaving constitutional problems), then the country will dissolve into violence. And then he will go. And it will be abroad.

It is nice, however, to see democracy in action. People organising themselves, getting out their voices, demonstrating, keeping up the momemtum, and in effect saying: we don't want you any more, you're a liar, a cheat, and a thief, get out.

I fucking wish the same thing was going on in UK and US.

 

[fela fan]

I often wonder why there are so many people who think Gordon Brown will be very much different to Blair.

I allow myself to be strayed from the topic: if blair was put into court to answer for all his crimes and lies and corruption and traitorous actions towards the nation he's leading, and banged up, as justice demands, then i bet you any sum you like that brown would be very different to blair.

This is why the thai way of dealing with thaksin is so sweet. It sends a message to all leaders and those that aspire to be leaders, that the people are in charge ultimately.

 

[fela fan]

Looks like the bastard is finally gone. Justice prevails, democracy rules. Total kudos to the thais who demonstrated week after week after week.

If this is true then it's a classic example of democracy in action. The people spoke, the leader had to listen. It took a long time, but the will of the people prevailed.

What a great news story.

"Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra announced on Tuesday that he will not take the premiership in the next government. He said his decision is aimed at restoring unity in the country."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/04/04/headlines/headlines_30000957.php

 

[Yossarian]

Excellent news indeed, Thaksin was a real bastard - be a good excuse to start celebrating Songkram early!

 

[nino_savatte]

Good! This is very good news indeed. But does this mean his influence will be diminished in any way?

 

[fractionMan]

Good riddance.

 

[fela fan]

Excellent news indeed, Thaksin was a real bastard - be a good excuse to start celebrating Songkram early!

I've already started mate!

Dunno what's to follow, but i'm really impressed with the thais' efforts. They've demonstrated weekend after weekend all year. That undoubtedly has held the sway.

They have some very impressive traits amongst their infuriating habits!

 

[fela fan]

Good! This is very good news indeed. But does this mean his influence will be diminished in any way?

I think he's pulled out now so that he can continue to live in the country. His crimes are legion and massive.

I think he's totally finished. But, in this country one can never know...

 

[fela fan]

Good riddance.

Oh, it's bigger than that mate.

 

[Jessiedog]

Perhaps an old bitch gets jaded, but I still get a sense of foreboding that there will be someone else along in no time, all to ready to avail themselves of the foul infrastructure bequethed by Thaksin - never mind whether the ex-pig's trotter remains at the tiller, albeit behind the scenes.



I do understand the enthusiasm this news brings *smiles and wags*, the guy's a nasty piece of work. And I appreciate the political symbolism for Thailand too. I'll stick in wait-and-see mode for a bit yet tho', while also hoping that Thaksin's humiliation runs deep.

So. Good news received with trepidation.



Woof

 

[TAE]

"Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra announced on Tuesday that he will not take the premiership in the next government. He said his decision is aimed at restoring unity in the country."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/04/04/headlines/headlines_30000957.php

Well that was unexpected! Wow.

 

[Azrael23]

but tellingly he has despatched his family to london...

Telling in many ways. I think if hes given asylum here we should make a stink.

I think we should be more like the thais in some regards!

Its pitiful that even the french mount a better insurrection than we do, the germans have a certain zeal for activism and now the thais have taken it the whole 9 yards.

Proud to be British? What a joke

Well done to the Thai people and hope people learn that a peoples movement cannot be defeated by a government. Its simple numbers, we run the machinery of state because we are coerced into it. Without us there is no state.

 

[lostexpectation]

technodeomacracy

was it thailand and thaksin's election that I read lots stories of technodemocracy with his election race being helped by spreading the message by sms?

 

[gnoriac]

I think the celebrations may be a bit premature.

He's to remain caretaker until a new PM can be appointed, which will be a while due to the opposition pull out from the election which left some areas without MPs. Even then he intends to remain TRT leader, and with them being still the largest party, it's quite possible the next PM will be a mere puppet with you-know-who pulling the strings.

 

[gnoriac]

was it thailand and thaksin's election that I read lots stories of technodemocracy with his election race being helped by spreading the message by sms?

I think you're thinking of the Phillipines.

 

[fela fan]

was it thailand and thaksin's election that I read lots stories of technodemocracy with his election race being helped by spreading the message by sms?

Well, one of the ironies of this whole saga is that there were a flurry of text messages leading up to the april 2 election telling friends and all and sundry to go to the poll stations to mark down a 'no vote'. The irony being that thaksin got stinking rich through mobile technology!

Incidentally, 16 million votes for thaksin, 10 million 'no' votes, and nearly 2 million spoiled votes, some with somewhat rude messages on them!

Yes, he remains in the caretaker position, and could possibly remain a major player in thai politics. But i think not. What i've seen of the demonstrations, and what they've said, they will keep watch on thaksin. It is him they wanted out, and they've got what they wanted, but if he somehow tries to keep influence, then they will be back at him.

This is quite a watershed in the history of thai politics. It's the first time a leader/dictator has stepped down without violence prompting it. Furthermore 'ethics' is on everyone's lips, and i sense a new responsibility by thais in general. They have been going backwards in the last few years, and too many have noticed.

Good luck to them, for they're a fine people.

Jessie, you're too cynical!

 

[fela fan]

Well that was unexpected! Wow.

Not from many of us in thailand! For me it was a certainty, the only thing was when he would step down. I have just seen in the last few months exactly how democracy can function, where the people voice themselves, and the leaders have to listen. Week after week, all year, they have come out to demonstrate. A variety of people from all sectors of society. They've organised themselves brilliantly, they've refrained from violence, they've spoken lucidly, and of the need for ethics in politics.

If any other country wishes to remove a leader who is ruling illegitimately or without ethics or without legitimacy, then they should study what the thais have been doing over the last three or four months.

Democracy in action, and it's a beautiful thing to have witnessed!

 

[Streathamite]

I think we should be more like the thais in some regards!

Its pitiful that even the french mount a better insurrection than we do, the germans have a certain zeal for activism and now the thais have taken it the whole 9 yards.

Proud to be British? What a joke

bad news; if you're a brit, you are part of the least insurrectionary people in eastern europe, and with the most conservative working class.
bloody good news about the bastard going, eh Fela?

 

[fela fan]

bloody good news about the bastard going, eh Fela?

Thanks mate, it is. Nice of you to pop in and say so. I've lived here for the majority of my adult life, it's my country of choice, and i care for it deeply. While i recognise some of the things he's done have been popular with many of the poorer sections of society, he's nothing but a dictator. Yet again the king restores harmony and order to society here.

[He resigned just after a meeting called by the king]

I actually feel optimistic for thai politics. He's gone coz a huge amount of people came to see their leader as having no legitimacy. Furthermore, he's gone without the pre-emptive violence that has been thailand's history with dictators. To me that shows maturity within their relatively new democracy.

Basically it's nice to see democracy in action! And they done fantastically well.

 

[Streathamite]

they damn well did, at that! Utterly inspiring scenes from Thailand.
so, d'you reckon the King hinted rather heavily to him?
y'know, raised eyebrow, jerks head towards door, mouths the word 'goodbye' hands him a biro and a sheet of foolscap....?

 

[neprimerimye]

Not from many of us in thailand! For me it was a certainty, the only thing was when he would step down. I have just seen in the last few months exactly how democracy can function, where the people voice themselves, and the leaders have to listen. Week after week, all year, they have come out to demonstrate. A variety of people from all sectors of society. They've organised themselves brilliantly, they've refrained from violence, they've spoken lucidly, and of the need for ethics in politics.

If any other country wishes to remove a leader who is ruling illegitimately or without ethics or without legitimacy, then they should study what the thais have been doing over the last three or four months.

Democracy in action, and it's a beautiful thing to have witnessed!

Good that he has been driven out yes. But such peaceful democratic upheavals are not unkinown in the last coyuple of decades. Look at the Philipines for example or even Indonesia.

Having driven out the tyrants who ruled those countries and reintroduced parliamentary forms has anything changed substantially in either of them? All that has happehed at bottom is that the thieves who exploit the workers and peasants in those countries now do so 'democratically'.

The real lesson is that getting rid of an unpopular politician is only the begining.

 

[Jessiedog]

I'm glad I'm not the only one retaining some scepticism amid the euphoria.

There have been some interesting articles from Greg Torode in the SCMP (he's on-the-ground in Bangkok at the moment,) over the last week. It seems that many (including leaders of Thailand's Democratic Party) are questioning Thaksin's willingness to truly withdraw from the political fray. There are many (including myself,) who seem to believe that his urge to meddle will be just too enticing.

I think "Harry" from today's Post summed it up neatly........

Woof

 

[fela fan]

I'm glad I'm not the only one retaining some scepticism amid the euphoria.

I don't belong in either of those camps. I know full well how devious dictator sorts can be, and how losing their power is almost akin to losing their life. Of course he won't go that easily, even if he's had to lost huge face at this point.

But based on my years living here, and my understandings of the way politics works here, he will retain very little influence. He is on his way out. I may be wrong, but i don't think so. You might recall your reaction jessie when i guaranteed to you he'd be out before year's end...

Of course, should legal proceedings begin, he will quickly leave the country.

The man is history, and that is coming from someone who's been 'on the ground' for 15 years. How long's greg torode been on the ground?

 

[fela fan]

they damn well did, at that! Utterly inspiring scenes from Thailand.
so, d'you reckon the King hinted rather heavily to him?
y'know, raised eyebrow, jerks head towards door, mouths the word 'goodbye' hands him a biro and a sheet of foolscap....?

Well mate, he was totally belligerant and arrogant (his usual self) on the monday. Then he goes into a 'routine' meeting with the king on the tuesday, and coming out of that he goes on the telly to announce, with tears in his eyes, that he is giving up the prime ministership in order to allow the 60th year celebrations of the king's rule to take place with a 'reunited' country. Just who broke that unity in the first place eh?!!

I remember 1992 very well, i'd only been here just under a year, and i'd never seen anything like this in politics. After the violence, the king stepped in to tell the silly boys what to do. The leader/instigator at the time has basically never been heard from since, even though he never had to face jail. Thaksin's fate will be the same.

You're also right to call the scenes inspiring. They are mate, and politics never gets better when the people act and rise up to unseat unjust and criminal leaders. Again, total kudos to all the thais who've done their bit in this slice of their history.

 

[fela fan]

Good that he has been driven out yes. But such peaceful democratic upheavals are not unkinown in the last coyuple of decades. Look at the Philipines for example or even Indonesia.

Having driven out the tyrants who ruled those countries and reintroduced parliamentary forms has anything changed substantially in either of them? All that has happehed at bottom is that the thieves who exploit the workers and peasants in those countries now do so 'democratically'.

The real lesson is that getting rid of an unpopular politician is only the begining.

Such blase cynical side-sniping commentary. How do you know if the philippines or indonesia are no better places than they were before?

How do you know what has happened since those days?

"The real lesson is that getting rid of an unpopular politician is only the begining."

Wow, you don't say sherlock. The brains you must have to conclude this.

 

[Jessiedog]

I don't belong in either of those camps. I know full well how devious dictator sorts can be, and how losing their power is almost akin to losing their life. Of course he won't go that easily, even if he's had to lost huge face at this point.

Indeed. The question remains as to how much influence he may still exert. And, of course, as to whether any replacement will actually offer any real alternative policies, or simply utilise the Thaksin-corrupted political institutions to consolidate power.

But based on my years living here, and my understandings of the way politics works here, he will retain very little influence. He is on his way out. I may be wrong, but i don't think so. You might recall your reaction jessie when i guaranteed to you he'd be out before year's end...

I do remember fela and I am surprised it happened so quickly. You were right on the money!

Of course, should legal proceedings begin, he will quickly leave the country.

The man is history, and that is coming from someone who's been 'on the ground' for 15 years. How long's greg torode been on the ground?

Let's hope that "real" change occurs for the poor of the country.



Woof