Trouble at the Country Show?

[William of Walworth]

By the way, what do you think of my suggestion:

"So who's in favour of putting him in an orange boiler suit and getting him to pick up rubbish and repair benches in Brockwell Park for a year or two?

He can also go and visit gun victims in hospital every month and do other socially useful stuff like help old grannies with their shopping."

Too lenient, and I'm against kneejerkly draconian sentences/punishments myself, for reasons of counterproductivity -- turning criminals into worse ones through the current prison system, which so often acts as an Academy of Crime.

He need a significant custodial stretch IMO, BUT, as someone suggested earlier, in a form that includes education and rehabilitation, ie not through the current Young Offender system which in the case of Feltham at least, seems not to work at all ....

Maybe your ideas could apply after he's out on parole.

 

[sufilala]

wow
my thread has re-emerged with the nice weather

this one popped up on the HRW mailing list this week,

perhaps this type of draconian solution would satisfy the punitive instincts of some posters here, the report covers a lot of the same points, incapacitation of crims by incarceration, retribution, punishment the conclusion mentions:

Some proponents of harsh sentences for children believe such sentences have contributed to the marked decline in violent youth crime nationwide after 1994. Others, however, have noted that where juvenile justice systems have implemented regimes tending more towards rehabilitation than punishment, the fall in youth violence has been even more pronounced. In the District of Columbia, a concerted program of replacing locked detention with community-based alternatives brought real results, as compared with a more punitive policy adopted by the nearby state of Maryland. Under its reform program, the District of Columbia sharply reduced its juvenile detention rate (by 71 percent). During this same period, Maryland slightly increased its juvenile detention rate by 3 percent. Comparing the two different policies towards juvenile crime, D.C.’s violent juvenile crime rate declined by 55 percent—more than three times Maryland’s 15 percent decline in its violent juvenile crime rate

my view is that education in nick is vital, i visited a high secure unit in S London where some seriously criminal minors (including kids who had murdered and raped) were in a positive environment and were actually getting good results in GCSEs, it was a total contrast to the lockdown culture of somewhere like feltham and this was appreciated by the residents who were making big efforts to improve themselves. A year is a long time in the life of a teenager and can be enough time to turn around a kid's life in the right circumstances.

 

[TeeJay]

Too lenient, and I'm against kneejerkly draconian sentences/punishments myself, for reasons of counterproductivity -- turning criminals into worse ones through the current prison system, which so often acts as an Academy of Crime.

He need a significant custodial stretch IMO, BUT, as someone suggested earlier, in a form that includes education and rehabilitation, ie not through the current Young Offender system which in the case of Feltham at least, seems not to work at all ....

Maybe your ideas could apply after he's out on parole.

With a 14 or 15 year old I don't think you can simply wait for a year or two before starting on something constructive: the sooner you start the better.

There is an issue of "leniency/punishment" (but nb this guy had some drugs and a gun - he isn't charged with being violent), but it is far more important for society as a whole that action is taken for young people before they go down a criminal route. The amount of grief for society and the amount of money it will end up spending if this guy follows a lifetime of crime far outweighs sorting this guy out right now.

You talk about imprisonment "in a form that includes education and rehabilitation" - so what exactly do you see this consisting of? Where should it take place and what should he be doing? Is he going to have any contact with the rest of society? Where is he going to go when he gets out, age 18 or whenever?

It's all very well saying he should be banged up, but ultimately what is this going to achieve? Is he going to be in contact with people in a postive way or just stuck in a cell to rot for three to five years, to come out utterly pissed off with the world age 20 and ready to fuck everyone up?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Just to make things clear.

Anyone who wanders around a busy family event armed with a loaded gun is a cunt in my book, whatever their age.

It's as simple as that.

I agree.

Especially if they're wearing a uniform.