Tree Blown Over on Clapham Common - One Dead
- Thread starter vauxhallmum
- Start date
They should do. Without knowing the history, it's difficult to tell, but the fact that the tree has no/few leaves which a competent tree inspector should see as suggesting it may have a root decay, in which case further investigation would be required - with possible signs of root decay, the failure could be seen as predictable.
V. complex subject and the hot topic in the arboricultural world.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I guess there'll be an investigation then.
i would bloody hope so!
You're talking about usually unformed officers working temporarily in plain clothes. You would NOT spot a proper, full-time surveillance officer in the normal course of events.
(And the boots are not "police issue", you have to buy your own footwear (but various firms target the market and obviously there are preferred designs)).
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Indeed!
Is there a number or something you should ring if you spot a dead tree? Or even trees that seem to be looking a bit poorly (there's a few silver birches that all seem to be looking very unwell on the Thames Path near me for example).
The local authority should have a department that deals with dangerous trees/structures of any sort in public places - may be Highways in some cases, or Environmental Health - each council is organised and labelled differently.
If it's really immediately dangerous (e.g. obviously swaying about) call police on 999.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Thank you.
Best to contact the Arboricultural Officer at your local authority (london borough in your case). They may not take any action though, depends whether they feel the trees are dangerous and what sort of targets (i.e. cars, buildings, people etc.) would be at risk if the tree failed. Can't say whether your birches would fall into this category - it maybe they are being decayed but are being kept for biodiversity, i dunno.
There have been a number of recent (over the last 10 years, say)developments in tree risk management and hazard identification, but a lot of LAs don't tend to allocate sufficient resources to allow inspection regimes to be carried out properly.
in this case, the key points will be when the tree was last inspected, was the inspector adequately trained/competent, were there any signs of PREDICTABLE (this is the critical point) failure at the time of the inspection and were remedial works suggested/implemented. impossible to tell from the info available at present.
If the LA in Clapham (Lambeth?) have an inspection regime then roadside trees should really be at the top of the list.
i am keeping my eyes on the UK Tree Care forum to see if any further news comes out.
This is kind of true, Arb officers get shoved into all sorts of different depts at LAs - Highways, Parks, Environmental Services etc.
But all LAs should have at least 1 Arboricultural/Tree Officer - this would be the best person to ask for!
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Best to contact the Arboricultural Officer at your local authority (london borough in your case). They may not take any action though, depends whether they feel the trees are dangerous and what sort of targets (i.e. cars, buildings, people etc.) would be at risk if the tree failed. Can't say whether your birches would fall into this category - it maybe they are being decayed but are being kept for biodiversity, i dunno.
There have been a number of recent (over the last 10 years, say)developments in tree risk management and hazard identification, but a lot of LAs don't tend to allocate sufficient resources to allow inspection regimes to be carried out properly.
in this case, the key points will be when the tree was last inspected, was the inspector adequately trained/competent, were there any signs of PREDICTABLE (this is the critical point) failure at the time of the inspection and were remedial works suggested/implemented. impossible to tell from the info available at present.
If the LA in Clapham (Lambeth?) have an inspection regime then roadside trees should really be at the top of the list.
i am keeping my eyes on the UK Tree Care forum to see if any further news comes out.
That's interesting, cheers _pH_
The silver birches are a bit of a digression really, they're not that big and it's a wide footpath. But I noticed that some of the branches had dead/dying/discoloured leaves and some trees were more affected than others - the ones spaced furthest away from the others being least affected. I wondered if it was a virus or summat.
Could be LOADS of reasons, including the fact that trees do DIE (they have finite lives, just like us, although plenty of people don't seem to realise this*
). Birches aren't esp. long lived.*general comment, not aimed at you specifically cesare
Birches would not be left standing to rot. When they are left to rot intentionally they are felled first. Whether or not arboricultural officer would be responsible for this, if it were my close relative killed by what is clearly a large dead tree very close to a road I would be inclined to hold the Council responsible. Even if it wasn't predictable, they will almost certainly be liable. Wasn't there a couple killed by a falling tree last year in a car on Trinity Road?
Not necessarily, standing deadwood is very good wildlife habitat (go to Holme Fen NNR in cambs., theres loads of standing dead birch there), the key point is whether it is safe to leave standing deadwood in an area with public access; much of the time reducing the dead tree to a 'monolith' reduces the risk adequately for many years to come.
I can sympathise with the relatives of the dead man in this case - they will obviosuly want answers. But as for liability, the courts (esp. in germany, the UK is lagging behind but catching up) are more and more coming round to the idea that if failure is unpredictable, there is no liability, the tree falling is an 'act of god'. the LA in this case will have to provide evidence of regular inspections to prove the unpredictability of the failure.
Until more evidence comes to light, its difficult to say why the tree fell. it could be that highways work, cabling etc. was recently carried out that severed the tree's roots (the pics show some dead leaves hanging on, so the tree may have only recently died
)
vauxhallmum
had to scrap the cheap car
Could you pop along to the Health and Safety gorn mad thread in General ...
How can you possibly claim that a council (or any other landowner) is liable for something that was unpredictable?
This is the attitude which drives councils (and others) to ban anything and everything "just in case" Xeno gets hurt by it ... (and which, in the case of trees, is currently behind a massive cull of them, nationwide)
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
Apparently a resident of Clapham Common says the tree's been dead for 20 years
Callie
Pivoting
i dunno, too much twiggy growth left on it in the pics for it to have been dead that long
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
Well whoever is responsible for Lambeth's trees are obviously checking them out. Went down Brixton Hill today and saw a sign saying words to the effect of "low branches, use other lane". Naturally the bus decided to just smash into the tree branches anyway
(Maybe he didn't have time to pull out into the other lane?)
(Maybe he didn't have time to pull out into the other lane?)
