travelling to america with a juvenile caution

Discussion in 'New York/US' started by misty74, Sep 7, 2008.

  1. misty74

    misty74 New Member

    is there anyone out there who can put my mind at rest

    we are going on a large family holiday to america in November, recently my son who is 15 was arrested as he got stopped by the police for a random search and stupidly had a very small amount of what he believed was cocaine in is pocket which he owned up to finding with his mates earlier...

    The police got it tested and it was..taking everything into consideration as he has never been in trouble before the police inspector decided to give him a final warning caution...he deeply regrets what he done and when we were with the Inspector I asked him if this would affect him travelling to america with his family...as a my father had just applied for our visa waiver program after the offence as he has no idea what has happened...and it states on there that if you have ever been arrested or convicted you must tick the yes box...obviously my father unawre of all this and ticked no

    The Inspector said that it would come up on a CRB check but would not come up when entering the US as he was not charged and the fingerprintng they do is more for the US to know who is in their country and would only flag something up if he was a serious criminal..

    This put mine and my sons mind at ease but after reading similar incidents on forums I don't know if this is 100% true...This will be a holiday of a lifetime for all the family but all I can think about is what if it does come up and they think we have lied on the VWP my father applied for which said Authorisation Approved...it states that you are permitted to travel to the US but US immigration have the final say...Would the US have records of a final warning?

    If there is anyone that knows the answer it would be very much appreciated
     
  2. PAD1OH

    PAD1OH New Member

    when I was a kid I often used the "I found it somewhere" excuse....... it was a good one.

    seriously though, are you not better off checking with the US embassy or US immigrantion etc.
     
  3. ethel

    ethel Well-Known Member

    i think he'll need a visa. from US embassy site:

     
  4. trashpony

    trashpony Ovaries and tings

    No, the US authorities would not have a record of a caution so don't worry about it, go on your holiday and have a good time :)
     
  5. i was cautioned when i was 14 for reckless riding of a bicycle and when i went to US 5 years later no mention
     
  6. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    Do NOT contact the US Embassy, if you ring them they will therefore know about the caution and could prevent him entering the States. Best option is to keep quiet, do not declare it on wvp form and keep fingers crossed. Despite this topic cropping up regularly I do not recall anybody ever saying they have been prevented from entering.

    Rachamin 18 or whatever will be alonmg shortly for his usual input on this subject, but just ignore him cos he always spouts bollox.
     
  7. misty74

    misty74 New Member

    trashpony...thank you for the positive response but how do you know this for sure?...I know it's only a final warning caution but it is because it was a class A is the reason I am worried as it says on the VWP about 'controlled substances'
     
  8. misty74

    misty74 New Member

    does anyone also know what the fingerprinting when entering is for if it's not to check for a criminal record?
     
  9. trashpony

    trashpony Ovaries and tings

    I know it for sure because I have a conviction for possession but I lived there for 2 years because I lied about it.

    The fingerprint is to make sure it's you that's left the country again and that you're not on the international dangerous terrorist database, not to cross-check against the UK petty criminal system.

    Honestly, there are not the resources for them to have access to every country's petty criminal database.

    But yes, don't declare it because if you do, they probably won't let your son in.
     
  10. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    As Trashy said they do not have the resources to be checking against a database for your son's caution. The US is so large that even their internal computer databases are too lareg to x-reference. I had a mate who lived there for years illegally, got done a few times for traffic offences and wooried himself sick the first time he went to court, but no problem. He was even a member of the local police benevolent committee in the end, no one ever cross referenced him and he was there under their noses, the chances of them finding your sons caution are pretty much zero. I go back and for all the time, have never declared my criminal record, and have never had a problem.
     
  11. misty74

    misty74 New Member

    Thank you...I know I'm probably worrying about nothing its just scarey to think that we could go all that way as a family for a great holiday and for them to not let him in...I was concerned because they have just bought in the 10 fingerprinting system so I thought maybe they would have more access to records...Its just that I read one forum posting that said that the US have access to all data of the countries that take part in the visa waiver program...It sounds crazy to think they wouldn't let him in its just I couldn't stop thinking about it....

    You have made me more confident that it will all be ok..I may be able to start looking forward to it now....I guess when the inspector mentioned they fingerprint so they can use it as a traffic light system meant that the people they let in are definately the people they send home
     
  12. misty74

    misty74 New Member

    1927...what is your criminal record for? Is it drug realted?...
     
  13. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    No
     
  14. hele robe

    hele robe New Member

    Hi there did you manage to sort out your query?

    I work for ITV and we're looking for people who have been cautioned and want to know the implications of that. We have a panel of experts at hand.
    Would you be interested in taking part?
     
  15. Yossarian

    Yossarian free shrugs

    [​IMG]

    Do *you* know anybody who had trouble traveling to the US because of a drugs caution? Why not get them to phone in?
     
  16. Jessiedog

    Jessiedog Keeping the faith.

    Do you now, or have you ever........

    ......Smoked marijuana?



    Errrrrrr......

    .....Dope?


    Errrrrrr......

    ....Nope!


    ;)


    Woof
     
  17. Detroit City

    Detroit City Not a well known member

    if you're coming to the US for the "holiday of a lifetime" you will be sadly disappointed
     
  18. iskande

    iskande New Member

    can i be on your programme...? i can pretend to say all sorts of things and give the req shock value to the grannies at home.

    :rolleyes:
     
  19. Bonfirelight

    Bonfirelight Crocodile

    ^^^ :hmm:
    US immigration spook

    no doubt in my mind
     
  20. JWH

    JWH Fnord Fiesta XR3i

    That's fucking impressive for daytime TV in England, considering even appropriately experienced US immigration lawyers find the system confusing and contradictory.

    I know it's a while ago, misty, but you were asking two separate questions: 1) is he entitled to use the Visa Waiver Program if he didn't declare the arrest, and 2) would be he caught if he did. AFAICS (and I have done a *little* reading on it), the answers respectively are no and no. IIRC (it's online somewhere), the I-94W form that you fill in asks specifically if you have been arrested or convicted of crimes relating of moral turpitude (what is that? good question), drugs and other stuff. He would have to tick yes.

    At the same time, Border Guard Joe Q Cheeseburger does not have access online and immediately to the handwritten notes of Inspector Boaby McSnuddy in Galashiels. The purpose of the question isn't really to catch you at the point of entry (there's no real way to check), it's so that if they find out later that you lied, they can do you for it and deport you immediately.

    This is a question that is asked constantly on britishexpats.com (home of the Malaga Daily Mail reader). Anyone interested in it should consider reading some of the previous threads over there.
     
  21. isitme

    isitme Banned Banned

    you can get rid of your juvenile cautions by ringing up the police and asking them

    it is really worth doing

    it does fuck up your visa applications if you don't

    it doesn't cost anything, but they don't do it automatically
     
  22. Miss Caphat

    Miss Caphat I want it that way

    I really don't think you have anything to worry about. I'm not sure it would be considered a felony over here anyway, since he's a minor.

    Reminds me of when I was leaving Scotland and got all kinds of freaked out because I'd been there longer than 6 months, read all kinds of horrifying stories on the 'net, only to a) have my passport not even looked at in customs and b) realizing that the stamp on my passport from entering the country, including the date, was totally unreadable. :rolleyes:
     
  23. Miss Caphat

    Miss Caphat I want it that way


    Hi Trashpony, where did you live in the states?


    Also, I just want to add that there is a rhyme and reason to the way things go in customs. I had a one-way ticket when I left from Boston for London, and I was pulled aside to be carefully checked. The rest of the people pulled aside along with me were all kind of shady looking men on travelling on their own. one of them actually joked "What on earth are you doing in this line?" It was simply because I had a one-way ticket.

    You, as a family clearly on holiday, I would be incredibly suprised if you encountered any problems whatsoever.
     
  24. trashpony

    trashpony Ovaries and tings

    Morning :)

    I lived in LA but it was a looooong time ago. Nowadays I get to New York for the odd weekend but that's about it.

    I agree with you that it's all about context. Returning to LAX from a week's holiday in Mexico six weeks before my visa ran out wasn't one of the smartest things I ever did. I spent two hours in secondary immigration (and they still didn't mention my conviction) because they were worried I was using the holiday as a way of extending my visa :oops:
     
  25. Xanadu

    Xanadu Masterful but awkward

    Trashy, you've been convicted for possession :eek:

    Lol :D :D :D

    Sorry, that tickles me :oops:
     
  26. denniseagle

    denniseagle ding dong the witch is dead

    online declaration form

    Now instead of filling in the nice form whilst onboard the aircraft those lovely helpful and trusting folks require you to fill the form in online at least 3 days before flying to the USofA.
    Methinks it might give them a bit more time to find reasons why they should deny you access to the land of the free...................
     
  27. trashpony

    trashpony Ovaries and tings

    :mad:

    Misspent youth :oops:

    As you know, nowadays I'm a pillar of the community ;)
     
  28. JWH

    JWH Fnord Fiesta XR3i

    Preface: I am not a lawyer, let alone one with relevant experience...
    Making sure spent convictions/expired cautions/whatever have been properly processed is always a good thing, of course, but i wouldn't have thought that would really make a legal difference in this case - the form/US government asks for all convictions, regardless of spent or not, and they are not subject to Rehabilitation of Offenders Act etc.
    Afaics, that's irrelevant because the form asks for everything including arrests, not just felony convictions. Also, the legislation says :

    "(2) Criminal and related grounds.-

    (A) Conviction of certain crimes.-

    (i) In general.-Except as provided in clause (ii), any alien convicted of, or who admits having committed, or who admits committing acts which constitute the essential elements of-

    (I) a crime involving moral turpitude (other than a purely political offense or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime), or

    (II) a violation of (or a conspiracy or attempt to violate) any law or regulation of a State, the United States, or a foreign country relating to a controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)), is inadmissible [for entry under the Visa Waiver Program]."

    Now, obviously, none of that affects the likelihood that you'd get away with it, which seems extremely high, but you know - it does seem like it's technically out there!
     
  29. Bahnhof Strasse

    Bahnhof Strasse A-wob a-bob bob

    Bollocks I've got minor convictions for all sorts, including class a drugs and never had any problem entering the US. Just tick NO to all the boxes on yer visa waiver (electronic from January) and you'll waltz in.
     
  30. fulhamfc

    fulhamfc New Member

    hi misty,
    i am just wondering what happened, i am exactly in the same situation, i have an official police caution and i am not sure if i should apply for a visa or try my luck when i get to the US. can you tell me what you have decided to do?
    many thanks
     

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