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Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by The Flying Pig, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. Cloo

    Cloo U R dOin me a friTen

    Love the way the papers are now trying to make out that talking about letting kids do things that don't conform to gender stereotypes is like OMG IT'S A PLOT TO MAKE THE KIDDIES TRANS OR GAY OR GAYTRANS!!!
     
  2. Clair De Lune

    Clair De Lune Well-Known Member

    If you had to rephrase this or expand upon it what might you say? Cos I keep seeing this phrase written and I haven't got a clue what it means.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  3. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    I think it means... 'to recognise the right of cis-women to discuss what it means to be women without being called terfs or abused for wanting to.'
     
  4. Clair De Lune

    Clair De Lune Well-Known Member

    Can't we already do that? Who's stopping us?
     
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  5. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    It means that it's legitimate for women to discuss how they define themselves, which, necessarily touches upon how womanhood is defined, part of which is the question of whether or not trans women are women.
     
  6. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    E.g. people who punch women who dare to organise to have that debate.
     
  7. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.


    I have been saying that for a while actually. I have to add though that I very rarely frequent women only, political spaces at present. So whilst I don't feel I am being stopped having that conversation at all, I am not currently organising to have it either ITMS? I am having the conversation when and where I can or come across it.
     
  8. snadge

    snadge metal alchemist


    Ohmygodmularquay, you are really some piece if work, I apologise for my outburst the other evening but I do have the strangest feeling that you are a wrongun'.
     
  9. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    Quite frankly fuck off snadge. You have the strangest feeling and I am somehow supposed to care? Your spidey senses mean shit diddly fuck to me. Shit or get off the pot. Take your non-apology and study it. You no longer think I am scum with no integrity but simply a wrong'un? You are embarrassing yourself.
     
    friendofdorothy likes this.
  10. killer b

    killer b Ennui Rollins

    I just searched this thread for the word 'bigot', and there's 4 pages of results. Women with worthwhile and thoughtful - if challenging - views on the topic have been abused as terfs and bigots on this thread. The same is true every other time it's been discussed here recently, and from reports I've had from friends the same is common in the wider world. Many feminists I know simply don't bother even engaging anymore.
     
  11. snadge

    snadge metal alchemist


    I will never fuck off, I'll simmer down now and I apologise for that comment but I'll be reading.
     
  12. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper It's a complicated world innit.

    In the city where I live a young women's DJ/music collective (vaguely lefty/alternative) was absolutely slated and quite frankly bullied for being 'transphobic' for using a symbolic image of a vagina on one of their advert flyers as 'not all women have vaginas'.

    So no, some people will not allow that debate.
     
    scifisam, emanymton, Omaplata and 7 others like this.
  13. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    Yes you will fuck off with this random, unjustifiable, popping up to attack me. You will because every time you do I will fuck you off. You will give in before I do because I absolutely will not be treated like that from by you or anyone else around here. I do not accept your non-apology. You are not sorry in the slightest, Your repeated, overblown, unjustifiable attack on me tonight tells me that.

    You haven't even had the decency to say what you disagreed with in my non contraversial post above. You just saw my username and thought you'd have a go.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
    friendofdorothy likes this.
  14. snadge

    snadge metal alchemist

    lol.
     
  15. Red Cat

    Red Cat Well-Known Member

    What the matter with you?
     
    Almor, friendofdorothy and bimble like this.
  16. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    Yep. Off you fuck.
     
  17. Humirax

    Humirax Member

    I only use the word hate because it's been used in counter argument at me, they didn't say discomfort, they said they look at themselves in the mirror and hate themselves and asked me how I felt if I hated myself. Personally, I think the fact that trans women call themselves TRANS-women is all the proof you need that they are not really women. Ofcourse, it is to be more accurate to say that they are women but not female as female is biology and woman is the social construct of gender- How do people feel about that, if it hasn't already been discussed on here? All else I have to say right now is that I get the whole non-binary thing and don't have a problem with it at all. Unfortunately, as someone already pointed out on here, the trans thing can be very binary.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  18. belboid

    belboid TUC Off Your Knees

    About 99% of trans women do describe themselves as women - no prefix necessary.
     
    Thimble Queen and Clair De Lune like this.
  19. spanglechick

    spanglechick High Empress of Dressing Up

    But there are also feminists who don't engage any more because those who do not wish to allow trans women into female spaces, don't seem interested in the views of other women wishing to include them.
     
  20. killer b

    killer b Ennui Rollins

    I think we can all agree the debate is pretty poisonous. What's to be done?
     
  21. killer b

    killer b Ennui Rollins

    fwiw I was just responding to suggestions on the thread that it's perfectly possible for women to have this debate without being abused for it - the evidence suggests this simply isn't the case. Which isn't to say people aren't behaving badly on all sides.
     
  22. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    Can you give any examples of trans-exclusionary posters refusing to engage with the opinions of trans-inclusionary feminists, please? In particular, any in which they've been abused in the way that those on the other side have been labelled bigots?
     
  23. Humirax

    Humirax Member

    And for the record, I'd just like to add that I believe feminism should be inclusive, so if there are trans-women that are feminist minded then surely they should be included in feminism? I understand that men are included in feminism and that there are limits to this though, so I guess it could be similar for trans-women? Ultimately though, if feminism is going to be only for women then it is pointless and won't go anywhere. Patriarchy effects everyone, primarily women, but everyone nevertheless.
     
  24. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    :D
     
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  25. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Why?

    bimble and me are in same area. I use Brixton Rec. Which some of us helped to get listed recently as fine piece of post war socialist architecture.

    Many like the way it's designed to be communal. To encourage interchange between people. Many people feel it's one of the few places left in Brixton where people of all backgrounds and colours mix. The design reflects the socialist principles of those who built it. And it works up to the present day.

    Yes it was designed with male and female changing rooms. These include communal showers and also private ones and separate changing rooms. With family changing rooms.

    I've had really good chats in the changing rooms.
     
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  26. smokedout

    smokedout criminal

    Can you give an example of any trans-inclusive posters doing this?

    Meanwhile outside of urban



    And there's lots, lots more where that came from.
     
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  27. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam 'He bloody well thinks he's staff!'

    Why is there always some old bloke in communal changing areas who wants to lament about something entirely inconsequential to you whilst you’re getting dressed?
     
  28. 8ball

    8ball I am Spasticus

    They’re making them all into gaytrains!!! Have you seen Thomas The Tank Engine recently?!? :eek:
     
  29. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Don't know where your from but I've made friends in Brixton Rec. My point is that communal spaces work. The Brixton Rec was designed to be communal.

    It's also important to the local working class Afro Carribbean community. Who were big in supporting the listing.

    Its a safe space.
     
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  30. bimble

    bimble uber-hippy twonk peanut

    I like the communal changing rooms too. Very rare in our lives that sort of space now. Not so much the women who shave in the showers though but yeah.
     
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