Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by The Flying Pig, Sep 14, 2017.

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  1. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    They are "equally really". ok. So reality = someone thinking that any particular thing is true.
    How the fuck do you combine this extreme relativism and centrality of the self/ perception with any of your other ideas about what matters in the world or how you want to see things move forwards structurally?
     
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  2. MochaSoul

    MochaSoul It's being enslaved of your own free will

    Given that definition of gender what do you think of the claim that "transgender women are women" (or its counterpart: "transgender men are men" - we never talk about this one)?
     
    campanula likes this.
  3. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    I don't have to reconcile any relativism. You're confusing the fact of the conceptions being qualitatively the same with the truth of the content of those conceptions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  4. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    Oh so there is such a thing as truth, or reality, which is a separate thing from what you or the next person might believe to be true ?
    :confused:
    What are you on about then. My cat is a boy cat right?
     
  5. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    It's one I choose to subscribe to, insofar as it has any significance to my life, notwithstanding the philosophical incongruity, because of the balance of harms when compared to trans exclusion, and the political opportunities it presents. But, I don't expect others to think the same, as such an approach might have more significance/a different balance of harms to them. And I actively resist the attempt to bully women into submitting to this new orthodoxy.
     
  6. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    I think so.
     
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  7. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! Live Baby Fabric!

    Athos, is that a long way of saying that the mind forms reality thus any reality a mind forms is basically true? Becuase that's idealism, which is the basis of postmodernism. And the opposite is of materialism.

    Edit : not jumping on you Athos, but that's what it sounds like to me.
     
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  8. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    No. That's not what I was saying.
     
  9. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    Yes it was. You said neither perception, material or esoteric/ personal is more 'real' than the other.
     
  10. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! Live Baby Fabric!

    Fair enough. Then I do not understand what you are saying.
     
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  11. Nigel Irritable

    Nigel Irritable Five, Ten, Fifteen Years

    I've been assuming that you are simply disingenuous but I'm beginning to wonder if you really don't understand that you are not in fact the voice of all womankind? And that people can be hostile to your nasty, bigoted opinions without that reflecting a general hostility to women?

    In either case, this apparently desperate need for the attention of someone who holds you in contempt is a bit unseemly.
     
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  12. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    You think it was, because you haven't grasped the point I was making. I've tried to explain it to you, but to no avail. I don't really see where else to go on this, now.
     
  13. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    Your point of view is equally real though, no matter if you can communicate it in shared language or if anyone else can understand it, so thats cool.
     
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  14. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    I've tried to clarify. But it doesn't really matter.
     
  15. MochaSoul

    MochaSoul It's being enslaved of your own free will

    ?

    So, because it doesn't really affect you, you choose to subscribe to it.
     
  16. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    No. More like, insofar as I encounter trans women, treating them as men would do more harm than good. But, I recognise that, as a man, I don't encounter those difficult marginal cases e.g. rape shelters.
     
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  17. twentythreedom

    twentythreedom Standing by on channel 12

    This is going well
     
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  18. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    Whether you think it's right or wrong, it's undeniably real.
     
  19. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    That's all a matter of perception. There is no such thing as well. :)
     
  20. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    I am saddened to note your inconsistent approach to unsubstantiated claims on this thread.
     
  21. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! Live Baby Fabric!

    Could be worse.

    I'm enjoying Nigel's contributions the most. Gold, they are.
     
  22. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    Yawn.
     
  23. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    I'm disappointed you don't have the gumption to ask yer man yourself, puling for someone else to do the job
     
  24. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    What does real mean ?
    This is my idea of fun. :(
     
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  25. Red Cat

    Red Cat Well-Known Member

    It's a conversation. What did you want?
     
  26. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    You need to get out more.
     
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  27. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! Live Baby Fabric!

    Lol. I'm in bed suffering from this fucking ear infection and deafening tinnitus as a result of said infection (it was a true story.. all of it). What's your excuse?
     
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  28. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    Good question. I actually have no excuse, apart from the deep and awkward stuff that might account for my being much happier talking about my ideas on here to doing so in real life, which nobody wants to know and i am not about to try to put into a sentence. Right, time to do some spaghetti. :hmm:
     
  29. trashpony

    trashpony Ovaries and tings

    Of course I'm not the voice of all womankind! And of course you're entirely entitled to be hostile. Being as you're a man and all.
     
  30. MochaSoul

    MochaSoul It's being enslaved of your own free will

    Aargh... I really don't want to sound unkind or personal but this is so typical of men. You know a trans woman or two, you don't know what to do with them "Let's lump them on the women." Never a word about what may happen to trans men btw.
    It's not enough we already carry the many caring burdens of society (at home, professionally and in solidarity with each other) we now have also to carry individuals messed up by a whole system which already benefits men above all. Not only that but we have to share what little power and resources we've carved out in order to change our fates and help each other with a bunch of over grown men; and to top it all we're now also having to share the pulpits we've conquered to speak our truth to power with them too, only to hear the likes of Lily Maddigan dictating to us how to make ourselves eligible to stand at those pulpits.
     
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