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Transfers - Summer 2017

Discussion in 'Dulwich Hamlet FC' started by Moroccan Sunset, May 29, 2017.

  1. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

    Because Gavin has an agreed budget that he operates within.

    If we are going to mug off the budget then we might as well release everyone.
     
  2. pompeydunc

    pompeydunc Well-Known Member

    Fair point, but he was already being paid as a non-contract player. This merely means that he is now signed up. This is better for the finances of the club, as when he leaves, we will get a transfer fee. If he was not on a contract, then he would be free to walk, at 7 days notice I think, and we would receive no compensation. It's very generous of him to sign a contract to be honest, as I guess he feels he owes us for helping him rebuild his fitness and form. I saw that he celebrated his first goal at Met Police by running up to Circuit Steve, so I guess he has played a part in his recovery.
     
  3. blueheaven

    blueheaven Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I was referring to the signing of Koroma, not Alassani (who I appreciate was already with us, but not on a contract).


    Don't really see how that logic follows - there's a pretty big difference between saying "maybe we shouldn't be signing any more players, given the financial situation" and "release everyone".
     
    Harry R likes this.
  4. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

    Not really - either Gavin has an agreed budget or he doesn't - if we want to re-negotiate the budget with Gavin and he doesn't agree he might walk - and then where will we be?
     
  5. YTC

    YTC Human Man

    Depends on the deal Koroma has, and wether we were spending the full quoted 5K a week every week. This is the point meadow critically misunderstood when dealing with the budget, in the sense that it operates very much like an overdraft, but with a limit that is only accumulated at the end of the season. Some weeks it might be 4K, some time might just be over 5K, as long as it evens out at the required 5K per week at the end of the season, we're all gravy. Thus is the nature of recruitment at this level. You rarely have a squad that isn't fluid.

    As for paying to cover wages, we were clear we were doing it just incase we needed it. If we've raised an extra 10K to the playing budget and we are sustainable without it, are we supposed to give it back, or go and get some decent players if we need it to get promoted?
     
  6. liamdhfc

    liamdhfc Well-Known Member

    The signing was made as we have so many injuries. Many of the substitutes could not be trusted to get through many minutes and some have not even been fit. It is also possible that adjustments have been made to some other players that means money has been freed up within the budget.
     
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  7. blueheaven

    blueheaven Well-Known Member

    He has an agreed budget with a company that walked out on their obligation to honour that budget quite some time ago now. I wouldn't call it the responsibility of the club/12th Man/supporters to stand by that agreement when the priority is surely the survival of the club. That said, if the income through the gate is enough to fund a short-term signing then fair enough, but I'd say it would be equally fair and reasonable to say to the manager "sorry, but given that the funding for the football club has been pulled, and everyone's salaries are at risk including your own, we can't justify signing new players at the moment."

    I guess that's a decision someone will have to make, but personally I'm of the view that this is a long term predicament for the club, and none of us know what lies ahead, so that reserve of money may come to be very, very important in the future. So I'd say no, in my opinion it shouldn't be spent on players to get us promoted.
     
  8. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

    If we lose a ground. No money will help.

    Maintaining momentum and our manager is critical. I wont ever bother going in conference south. Too far.
     
  9. blueheaven

    blueheaven Well-Known Member

    Fair enough, we'll have to agree to disagree on that then. I think it's the survival of the club that is critical, and that having a reserve of funds is vital. Managers will always come and go.
     
  10. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

    If we agree to disagree - then perhaps you can explain how the 10k raised would be helpful if we were not granted a new lease on the ground?
     
  11. blueheaven

    blueheaven Well-Known Member

    I didn't say anything about it being useful if we're not granted a lease on the ground.
     
  12. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

    Ok. It what fictional scenario would the money "come in very useful to the club".

    As the potential lack of a ground is the biggest problem we currently face.
     
  13. blueheaven

    blueheaven Well-Known Member

    If there is a month where there are hardly any home games (if we have a run of postponements over winter, for example), or attendances dip, or for whatever other reason the income isn't enough to pay the players/staff and keep the club running... surely that's one "fictional" scenario where that money would come in useful? Is that not what the money's actually for, after all? That's what I thought it was for when I contributed to it.

    What happens next summer when it's time to discuss the manager's budget for the season ahead ? Does he get offered an unsustainable amount because "maintaining momentum and our manager is critical"?

    Long term, worst-case scenario - what if the worst comes to the worst and we do lose the ground and the club dies? Wouldn't a reserve of money be helpful in attempting to set up a new club?

    My whole point is that none of us knows what lies ahead. This is a long-term predicament and it's surely better to have a fund of money in reserve that can be called upon if needed, than to not have one. I find it bizarre that you seem to see that as such a contentious point.
     
  14. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

    I thought that money was required to cover Gavin's budget in the event that we did not have the money to cover it.

    I also didn't know that the budget agreed was unsustainable based on our likely income. I was under the impression that its only unsustainable if Meadow don't give us the money we earn - for whatever reason.

    What is contentious for me? Is a. That signing a player isn't correct under the circumstances. What is the difference between not signing a player to preserve money and releasing a player to preserve money?

    And b. That preserving this money to setup a new club is anyway worthwhile.

    As for the budget next season. We will probably offer him the same in the event that it is likely to be able to be sustained by income. Otherwise there is no point being promoted to cut the budget. Might as well stay where we are.
     
  15. Matt The Cab

    Matt The Cab Live it like you love it

    I have to disagree, if you earn the right to promotion, you should always go up. If you then have to alter a budget to survive, so be it.

    To not go up would be a farce.. you may as well not have particpated
     
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  16. Dulwich Mishi

    Dulwich Mishi Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!

    The fact is....if costs are not met this month then quite simply players are out of contract and they can walk away and find another club. That is why fundraising is so essential to keep the team we have on the pitch.
    The 'fictional' scenario you are creating is EXACTLY what is happening now. Which is EXACTLY why everyone is pulling together to raise funds via the "12th Man" to keep things together until things stabilise.
    Clearly this cannot carry on forever, and you are right that no-one knows what lies ahead...but the whole game plan, as I read it, is to put pressure on Meadow Residential to wither fund the Football Club side of things properly or to sell to someone who wants to, as has been alluded to by liamdhfc in his past programme columns.
    If we do not continue to raise funds to keep the team on the pitch the team will break up, interest will wane, I am sure Gavin will leave, and relegation is inevitable, maybe not this season, but the spiral will start.
    Meadows have said the only funding the Club will receive is from matchday income via turnstiles and bar profit, after the expenses AS SET BY THEM have been deducted-expenses which the Football Club have no say in applying. Every penny coming in this way does not just cover wages. There's so many other things. Transport to away games, training facilities, league & county fees, kit wash, bills from the FA such as bookings & red card fines, I could think of many more, but the point I'm trying to make is that this is so much more than just trying to sign another player within the current budget, it's a battle to keep our club ALIVE!

    Yes, there is a strong possibility that the Club I love will fold if things do not pan out...but I want to keep our Club that was formed in 1893 alive.

    To keep a reserve of money aside for something that might not happen isn't an option for me. If we do go pop then that is the time for sorting all that out.

    Right now I see the only priority as one of keeping our current side on course for promotion, to keep the ship steady, as people work behind the scenes to keep the Club afloat.

    Personally I'd rather do my utmost to keep the current club afloat rather than hold back 'just in case a replacement club is formed'. For no matter what you think it will not be my Dulwich Hamlet. It will not be 'Pa' Wilson's Dulwich. And it won't be the one that Edgar Kail, Willie Lillington or Ossie Bayram played for.

    I will also ask you...ok, let's suppose there is a new Club to replace the current one.

    a) Where do you think they will play?
    b) What league will they play in?
    c) What do you expect the annual running costs to be?
    d) How much is appropriate to 'hold back'?

    To finish, the "12th Man" was set up solely as a one-issue fundraiser, to help with the playing budget. It does not pay any other bills whatsoever. The day any of the money the "12th Man" raises goes to anything but the playing budget is the day I stop contributing to it.

    As for next season, well if the players are out of contract then that's up to the Chairman to sit down with Gavin to talk about then. At the moment surely the priority is to keep the players and everything Gavin has built together? I, for one, don't believe there's no hope...if that was the case I would expect Gavin to have walked away already. When that happens that IS the time to be worried...VERY WORRIED!

    As a 'Natural Born Pessimist' I still, hand on pounding heart, do not know if I will have a football club to support next season.
     
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  17. Matt The Cab

    Matt The Cab Live it like you love it

    Agree whole heartedly with this. For the last 5 years this has been it's one aim, and I'm glad that both Neil & Shaun have stuck to it. This is where we as fans can and have contributed to the success of our club on the pitch.

    You've only got to look to the goals Reise is banging in already
     
  18. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

    To clarify, its not about turning down promotion, there is no point spending money to get promoted to then cut the budget when nothing else has changed.

    In that case you might as well not spend the money to get promoted.
     
  19. blueheaven

    blueheaven Well-Known Member

    I agree with most of what you say but would just like to clarify that it's not my opinion we should be "holding money back" in case a replacement club is needed. But I was asked by another poster to give examples of a scenario where money would come in useful, and that is just one example of such a scenario.

    My point is not that we should be holding money back. My point is that I think it is perfectly fair for us, as supporters, to question whether or not the club should be making new signings in the current circumstances. I think the money may be needed in the future for things that turn out to be more important than signing a new player. That's all I'm saying.

    I don't have the answers to your questions about a new club, and I've never claimed to.
     
  20. Dulwich Mishi

    Dulwich Mishi Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!

    So, just to stick to new signings...first of all I have no idea how he would fit into the budget, but it is CLEARLY a criteria that could fall under the "12th Man" remit regardless.
    But, if we were not able to sign players to fill in gaps it would mean throwing in untried and untested far too early from the Youth Team to plug the gaps, and that would, I would suggest, strongly lessen our chances of finishing in one of the play-off spots. Which must surely still be our aim. We are raising funds to keep the team on the pitch.
    If not we may as well release the lot, we probably have enough points in the bag anyway to stay up, and start the slide to oblivion.

    As for 'answers' to my questions, perhaps some 'suggestions' instead?
     
  21. pitchfork

    pitchfork Well-Known Member

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