Train operators want 14 extra lines and 40 new stations

[david dissadent]

Bring it on!Brixham would massively benefit from a reopened line, but where's Brecon, Monmouth and the west/mid Wales lines?

This proposal appears practical, within a reasonable cost and has much of the heavy earth moving already done.

Far too sensible to be allowed to go ahead. But I am of the persuation that branchlines to small towns and dealing with urban chokepoints are far more important than the high profile flashy projects like crossrail and HS2.

 

[teuchter]

Plenty of people fly from birmingham to london, so there's definitely a market for HST

Do people really fly between London and Birmingham?

Madness.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That's exactly what it used to have! The A40/A449 between Monmouth and Usk is built around the route of the railway from Pontypool to Coleford - that's why you can see the old Raglan station right next to it.

The line went: Newport -> Pontypool -> Usk -> Monmouth -> Ross On Wye - Hereford, with various junctions/connections on the way.

I must have been past that several hundred times and never knew it was there!

Bloody hell - madness closing that. The fact they replaced it with a dual carriageway shows that it's a busy route.

Fuckers. And I never even knew.

 

[editor]

I must have been past that several hundred times and never knew it was there!

Bloody hell - madness closing that. The fact they replaced it with a dual carriageway shows that it's a busy route.

Fuckers. And I never even knew.

Just in case you've missed it, I've got a load of photos from the Monmouth/Wye Valley and Usk lines:

Monmouth Troy
http://www.urban75.org/photos/wales/wye.html

Usk
http://www.urban75.org/photos/wales/usk.html

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

Do people really fly between London and Birmingham?

Madness.

It might just about make 'sense' timewise if you lived near Birmingham airport and were going somewhere on the West side of London (i.e. not the centre). But my guess is the vast majority are people going down for connecting flights.

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/business/2009/06/01-hs-two.html

Sounds funky and the torries were proposing this in place of Heathrows third runway but......


can we afford £20-£30 billion or whatever it will cost?

No, in my view, we can't. I think this is another 'Concorde'. It will look good technically but become a money drain.

And to think people were objecting to spending a tiny fraction of this amount on cycle routes in London......

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Just in case you've missed it, I've got a load of photos from the Monmouth/Wye Valley and Usk lines:

Cheers for that. Really interesting.

I am deeply ashamed about my lack of knowledge about my own town. I didn't even know about Monmouth Troy station. I knew Monmouth had once had a railway but it had never even occurred to me to find out where the station had been. I fail at local history.

 

[joevsimp]

Usk
http://www.urban75.org/photos/wales/usk.html

that sir, is a fab shot

can't believe they would tarmac over a perfectly good railway

 

[editor]

Cheers for that. Really interesting.

I am deeply ashamed about my lack of knowledge about my own town. I didn't even know about Monmouth Troy station. I knew Monmouth had once had a railway but it had never even occurred to me to find out where the station had been. I fail at local history.

It once had two stations, which were linked to a comprehensive network of lines. Troy was the main one and formed a bustling country junction for a hundred years, but locals preferred to use the smaller May Hill station which was closer to the town.

 

[editor]

that sir, is a fab shot

can't believe they would tarmac over a perfectly good railway

The mist coming out of the tunnel looked like the smoke from a ghostly steam train!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It once had two stations, which were linked to a comprehensive network of lines. Troy was the main one and formed a bustling country junction for a hundred years, but locals preferred to use the smaller May Hill station which was closer to the town.

I was wondering – Mitchel Troy's quite a trek from the town centre.

We moved to Monmouth when I was very little in the early 1970s. My parents aren't from there, so I didn't hear stories from old folk about how the town used to be when I was growing up. That's not my side of town anyway – I know more about the Monnow Valley than the Wye. That's my excuse anyway.

 

[editor]

I visited the old Monmouth Troy station several times and fostered dreams of buying it. It was a lovely building in a beautiful location right by the Wye and I got inside once to have a look around (while it was being used as a garage)

One day I was upset to see it had vanished but there was a happy ending - the entire thing had been dismantled brick by brick and re-erected on the Gloucester Warwickshire Railway at Winchcombe. Huzzah!

 

[THE WARRIOR]

Much of the track from March to Wisbech is still there (occasional freight use) although the Highways Agency removed a level crossing on the A47 a few years back effectively cutting off Wisbech. It would be a relatively simple line to re-instate.

There was a plan to reopen it as a preserved railway (The Bramley Line) and this seemed to progress quite well for a while, with some ex BR Mk2 rolling stock bought and stored at March. But iirc the level crossing pretty much scuppered it, while the rolling stock ended up being badly vandalised and sold.

But yeah, you're right guin, wisbech is a nightmare to get to from the south - that single carriageway section of the A47 along the Nene is a right pain if you get stuck behind one of the many tractors that use it. Although getting to Kings Lynn from Wisbech is much quicker now since the bypass around the Walpoles etc. was finished about 10 years ago.

Although this assumes there is a reason to want to go to Wisbech, I can't think of one

Surprised to see no mention of the line from Wymondham to Dereham - Dereham is about the same size as Wisbech having massively grown from about 10,000 in 1970 when the line closed to over 20,000 now. The mid norfolk railway runs trains on track that seems to be in good condition. Currently commuting to Norwich involves sitting on the A47 and barely moving.

Perhaps the mid norfolk railway despite their original plans to run a commuter service actually want it to stay a backwater as that would be better for their tourist custom.

 

[teuchter]

Surprised to see no mention of the line from Wymondham to Dereham - Dereham is about the same size as Wisbech having massively grown from about 10,000 in 1970 when the line closed to over 20,000 now. The mid norfolk railway runs trains on track that seems to be in good condition. Currently commuting to Norwich involves sitting on the A47 and barely moving.

Perhaps the mid norfolk railway despite their original plans to run a commuter service actually want it to stay a backwater as that would be better for their tourist custom.

It's a kind of interesting question actually, what the arrangement would be where a "line reopening" consisted mainly of (re)connecting a preserved railway to the national network. Whether the TOCs would pay the preserved railway access charges to run over their track, and whether it would mean that the preserved railways would have to make significant changes to bring things up to mainline safety standards and so forth. And whether most preserved railways would see the line being brought back into regular use as a positive thing, or something that would compromise what they see themselves as being all about.

I know there was talk of some kind of joint-operation arrangement on the Llangollen railway... it was mentioned on a thread here sometime relatively recent too...

 

[Cobbles]

Bring it on!Brixham would massively benefit from a reopened line, but where's Brecon, Monmouth and the west/mid Wales lines?

Or Scotland, for that matter - no, just forget it, we'll just fly directly to the Continent as opposed to spending 4.5 hours on the train to Lunnun' before we add 2+ hours to Paris (and then a few hours to Brussels/Amsterdam).

It's less than 2 hours to Paris/Brussels from Edinburgh/Glasgow/Aberdeen by air - what kind of rail system can beat that?

 

[teuchter]

The Cobble-bot needs re-booting. It seems to have got stuck in some kind of loop.

 

[Cobbles]

The Cobble-bot needs re-booting. It seems to have got stuck in some kind of loop.

Ah yes, you mean the one that determines that anything that causes someone to spend more than an hour and a half getting to an air-accesssible destination when the rail alternative takes more than 5 times as much is bollocks.

That's not a loop, that's reality.

 

[teuchter]

Nah, the one that automatically spams any thread with the word "rail" in it. It keeps posting up obvious statements that aren't anything to do with the thread. It definitely needs rebooting at least - possibly complete reprogramming. It's starting to look a bit outdated compared to modern spam-bots.

 

[editor]

Or Scotland, for that matter - no, just forget it, we'll just fly directly to the Continent as opposed to spending 4.5 hours on the train to Lunnun' before we add 2+ hours to Paris (and then a few hours to Brussels/Amsterdam).

It's less than 2 hours to Paris/Brussels from Edinburgh/Glasgow/Aberdeen by air - what kind of rail system can beat that?

You're frothing up another weird storm of anti-rail gibberish as usual and as such you're really not worth bothering with.

But FYI: only a tiny percentage of rail travellers need to get to Paris, Brussels or Amsterdam.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

I was amazed to see that the Brixham line was on that list. I come from that neck of the woods, and although the idea on the surface sounds good, if you are a romantic, it is completely impractical. Part of the Brixham route -the bit from from Paignton to Goodrington is already run by a summer time steam train which does not operate in the winter because there is no demand.

The rail bed link from Goodrington is not even walkable any more because there are a few bridges that have been demolished. The destination station at Brixham was not in the town itself but high above it about a mile and a half from the harbour.

Some of the increased population in Brixham lives in bungalows and houses built on the site of the old railway track.

Brixham is well served by a very good bus service from Newton Abbot passing through Torquay, Paignton, and Goodrington before getting to Brixham. It runs at about ten minute intervals throughout the year including Sundays. It is the most profitable bus route in Europe. Stagecoach who run it would be likely contenders to run a railway over the Churston to Brixham. They would be competing with themselves. If a rival company took over instead it would damage the existing bus route. I understand that Stagecoach already have plans for a fast hydroplane boat across the bay from Torquay to Brixham for commuters. This would render a railway link for the last bit of the route even more redundant.

The original Brixham rail line was built primarily for transporting fish from Brixham to Newton Abbot the rail head, for transport to London. It was not a passenger line and was closed long before Beeching because it was cheaper to transport the fish by road.

more information here

 

[liampreston]

Oh were re-openings so easy! I have been banging on for years about astation in Preston (not technically re-opening). You get fobbed off with concerns on the timetable and concerns on use and all that. When there is a train every ten minutes through massive suburbia, everyone knows that a station would be so beneficial.

Really happy to see Lancashire lines on there, but existing lines need stations just as urgently.

 

[Crispy]

Or Scotland, for that matter

This report specifically covered England only, and then only small lines and stations.

 

[newbie]

Its been well received generally - and I know just a bit about this report if you follow my gist

This is a starting list of options which really need to be funded by HMG and Treasury if they have a mind to - and there is very much work to do to get these things on the radar screen , funded and programmed. (Yes - I know its jargon but thats life)

On the basis that the Ebbw Vale , Vale of Glamorgan (are you listening Ed ?) and the Scottish Drumgelloch / Alloa have been extremely succesfull in racking up over a million journeys per year (well above estimates)

Read the report in the sense of its an options list - and at the end of the day there is a question on development of communties , carbon reduction and accessibilty (where there is a gap)

When you get positive feedback on things like Cranleigh in the commuter belt , let alone the brownfield schemes such as the Blyth and Tyne - then you do think one is pushing at an open door !!!!


Its not all about HSL and so on - important though these are in the macro view - but about sensible short links where rail can really make a good local contribution.

Feedback very welcome

well I read your post even if no-one else did. The focus seems to be passengers, is there no case for new or re-opened links designed primarily for freight?

 

[Crispy]

well I read your post even if no-one else did. The focus seems to be passengers, is there no case for new or re-opened links designed primarily for freight?

Something to take freight of the north london line would be fantastic

 

[London_Calling]

Or Scotland, for that matter - no, just forget it, we'll just fly directly to the Continent as opposed to spending 4.5 hours on the train to Lunnun' before we add 2+ hours to Paris (and then a few hours to Brussels/Amsterdam).

It's less than 2 hours to Paris/Brussels from Edinburgh/Glasgow/Aberdeen by air - what kind of rail system can beat that?

Eurostar: 9 million passengers in 2008.

 

[davesgcr]

To answer a few questions and make a few points.

(a) Doesnt include freight - but there have been 2 re-openings in the last year , one in South Wales , one in Scotland - (both for coal traffics) - there are minor bits and pieces being added all the time like sidings and yards.
(b) Scotland and Wales have devolved transport powers and they are responsibe for local initiatives - but always supported from this end of the UK.
(c) To be honest, and blunt , railway investment is at an all time record for the next 5 years - and its spread fairly well where need is greatest - there are obvious big issues in cities and London will always dominate as about 40% of all UK journeys start and end there , but there is a rolling programme of station enhancements targetted at the middle levels of usage all over the UK - and somewhere near you there will be an improved category C station - things like proper shelters , lifts and ramps and better lighting etc. We are very , very lucky this money was authorized before the slump and we believe its safe from being clawed back by the Treasury. Transport is a priority now (honest) - and rail is seen as a solution - not a problem.(unlike roads and certaonly airports)
(d) Dont confuse this stuff with the HSL and electrification - thats a seperate issue (been to a HS meeting today) - which meets differing needs. London - Scotland is a key issue for transit in about 3 hours in the future - but it may take some time to sort out - rail share is only 11% now (up from 9%) - compared to 80%+ for Manchester - London so some work to do.

 

[davesgcr]

Freight on the North London line


Good news - £100m for diverting traffic from Felixstowe via the fields to Peterborough cleared and work in hand.


"Bad news" - development of Thames Gateway port and Isle of Grain / London domestic traffics means the vacuum of diverted traffic gets filled with other flows (largely)


Besides , cities need freght trains to make them work - how else does the crap get taken away , cement and bulks delivered , and Volic water and flat screen TV , terracota tiles and essentials like sun dried tomatoes get to the distribution points. ?


If you follow the gist -

Better than some overtired , uininsured cabotage trucker from Hungary or somewhere else !

 

[Bungle73]

If they reinstated the line to Cranleigh wouldn't that mean losing a section of the Downs Link path?

 

[davesgcr]

I think the benefits of losing a footpath to a reinstated rail lik carrying about 1000 passengers + a day (with reduction in car use / accidents etc) is a price worth paying.

the railway was there first after all !!!!

 

[teuchter]

(c) To be honest, and blunt , railway investment is at an all time record for the next 5 years

Is that in absolute terms, or per head of population, or per passenger-mile, or something else?

 

[Isambard]

Bugger all for barren Wales then

That's a bit unfair Ed given the significant expansion of rail services in South East Wales over the last few years.

As for the geography. You can lay your head down in a train in Vienna and wake up in Amsterdam.
Do the same in Barcelona and wake up in Geneva. Why not do the same in Edinburgh and wake up in Brussels?