Train operators want 14 extra lines and 40 new stations

[littlebabyjesus]

A more realistic option for the Wye Valley would be something similar to the Celtic Coaster bus that now runs around the St David's peninsula in Pembrokeshire. It runs every half hour in the summer. People could then park up in Monmouth or Chepstow and take the bus from there.

I do agree that it is a shame the valley has such a busy road in it. You can hear the road from the top of the hill on either side – the sound of the cars, though not loud, virtually fills the whole valley. As for the dual carriageway that cuts through Monmouth, you can hear that several miles up the Monnow Valley. I didn't really notice it much when I lived there, but I do going back now.

 

[_pH_]

The proposed line from Cambridge to Wisbech would have saved me many hours of screaming frustration stuck behind tractors whilst trying to get to meetings/hearings in the north of Cambridgeshire!

I might even have taken the job I was offered there a few years ago!

It's an area which is very poorly served by public transport, and could be transformed by reopening the rail line, which is exactly what the railway used to do, and could do again, in many areas...

Much of the track from March to Wisbech is still there (occasional freight use) although the Highways Agency removed a level crossing on the A47 a few years back effectively cutting off Wisbech. It would be a relatively simple line to re-instate.

There was a plan to reopen it as a preserved railway (The Bramley Line) and this seemed to progress quite well for a while, with some ex BR Mk2 rolling stock bought and stored at March. But iirc the level crossing pretty much scuppered it, while the rolling stock ended up being badly vandalised and sold.

But yeah, you're right guin, wisbech is a nightmare to get to from the south - that single carriageway section of the A47 along the Nene is a right pain if you get stuck behind one of the many tractors that use it. Although getting to Kings Lynn from Wisbech is much quicker now since the bypass around the Walpoles etc. was finished about 10 years ago.

Although this assumes there is a reason to want to go to Wisbech, I can't think of one

 

[editor]

A more realistic option for the Wye Valley would be something similar to the Celtic Coaster bus that now runs around the St David's peninsula in Pembrokeshire. It runs every half hour in the summer. People could then park up in Monmouth or Chepstow and take the bus from there.

The problem with a bus route is that it will just get stuck in the seasonal traffic along the one narrow road - which no doubt some clown will eventually suggest widening at huge cost.

 

[editor]

Some of the specifics of ATOC's proposals are interesting. I'm surprised to see Brixham on the list for reconnection: the old Brixham branch was a pretty obvious candidate for closure in the 60s - indeed, the decision to shut it was taken pre-Beeching - and although tourism has obviously grown since, Brixham's not the most popular destination in south Devon.

Put the railway back in and that would almost certainly change.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The problem with a bus route is that it will just get stuck in the seasonal traffic along the one narrow road - which no doubt some clown will eventually suggest widening at huge cost.

True, but the idea would be to get cars off the road, wouldn't it. If you're staying in Monmouth, say, and want to visit Tintern, you could jump on the bus, and have a drink or two in Tintern! Or if you wanted to walk, you could walk from one place to another without having to go back to pick up the car at the end. Dunno. It's hard to persuade people that they should get out of their cars, but those are two concrete advantages that I'd push.

 

[Roadkill]

Put the railway back in and that would almost certainly change.

A reinstated rail link would be good for the town, certainly. I just wonder whether it would generate traffic enough to be viable. I assume ATOC have good reason to think it would be, though...

 

[editor]

True, but the idea would be to get cars off the road, wouldn't it. If you're staying in Monmouth, say, and want to visit Tintern, you could jump on the bus, and have a drink or two in Tintern! Or if you wanted to walk, you could walk from one place to another without having to go back to pick up the car at the end. Dunno. It's hard to persuade people that they should get out of their cars, but those are two concrete advantages that I'd push.

I'd wager that the vast majority of traffic through the Wye Valley is not people staying locally. It's mainly people on a day trip or driving through on their way to somewhere else, and stopping off for a nice picnic en route.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'd wager that the vast majority of traffic through the Wye Valley is not people staying locally. It's mainly people on a day trip or driving through on their way to somewhere else, and stopping off for a nice picnic en route.

Yes, I'm sure that's right – if you drive from Monmouth to London, for instance, that's the shortest route. In that case, though, these people would be unlikely to use a railway, wouldn't they? I'm not sure how you stop people driving along there.

 

[_pH_]

Some of the specifics of ATOC's proposals are interesting. I'm surprised to see Brixham on the list for reconnection: the old Brixham branch was a pretty obvious candidate for closure in the 60s - indeed, the decision to shut it was taken pre-Beeching - and although tourism has obviously grown since, Brixham's not the most popular destination in south Devon. I'm a bit surprised they think a reopened line could be viable.

Brixham is a very popular for day trips in the summer though, getting into the town from Paignton on the Churston Road is a nightmare, even with the park and ride (I blame the academics ). The amount of car parking in the town has gone down considerably recently since they had to demolish that awful multi storey in the town centre.

I'd like to see the Brixham branch re-opened, but served by the Paignton and Dartmouth Railway. That would be ace And occasional BR services sharing the track. I like to dream though

 

[_pH_]

This is what the ATOC report says about Brixham:

Brixham:
• Stations: Goodrington Sands and Churston (for Brixham).
• Population: 17,500.
• Location: Three miles south of Paignton.
• Catchment area: Continuous housing in the railway corridor would
be served by this short extension, and Churston would also serve
Brixham which is two miles away with a frequent bus link.
• Current rail access: via Paignton or Newton Abbot stations.
• Proposed link: existing single track heritage line, with
permission from the Paignton & Dartmouth Railway.
• Formation: Line and stations capable of taking extension of
local services from Exeter and Paignton.
• Indicative capital cost: Nil. Operating costs reflected in evaluation.
• Train service: Hourly from Exmouth via Exeter.
• Notes: Service would need to flex to accommodate peak
holiday steam services, but scope to provide additional track
capacity for the first half mile to Goodrington if required.

So basically running BR services over existing track already served by the steam railway and not actually going into Brixham itself. Not that good really

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Thinking about it, what Monmouth really needs, and would have made a big difference to me when I was growing up, is a railway line that follows the route of the dual carriageway from Newport.

Newport–Usk–Raglan–Monmouth–Ross-on-Wye–Hereford.

That would really connect Monmouth up.

 

[Chz]

The Oxford-Cambridge via Bicester/Bedford route's problem is the route itself. It's not possible to run fast along it (it's a 40 maximum for most of its length), and nearly every journey that would have a significant number of passengers would actually be faster via London. Plus the X5 handles it quite well, I think. Unless you were going to plan a whole new route, it's not worth reopening. The only plans there are for Chiltern to run trains into Oxford via a new chord from their line to Banbury.

It's a nice thought from ATOC. Of course, they're not the one spending money so they can say whatever they please. It doesn't have much bearing. For instance, they mention Uckfield-Lewes. Again. An expensive report on reopening that just finished a few months back and it was a "No".

 

[Guineveretoo]

It did. It's been built over between Bedford and Cambridge, though. The rest still has rails - and passenger services, except for Bicester-Milton Keynes.

Well, you learn something new every day! Another line which would have been helpful when I lived in Cambridge, in fact, and relied on a horribly slow coach to get me from Cambridge to Bicester, where my parents live.

It is certainly notable that Cambridge is not well served by railways, but I didn't realise that it used to be! It sounds like it had a line going west to Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire, and one going north into rural Cambridgeshire.

 

[Griff]

I'm always amazed that Saffron Walden station was closed in the 1960s and never re-opened. It's a town of 15,000 + people who have to use nearby Audley End station.

 

[Guineveretoo]

The Oxford-Cambridge via Bicester/Bedford route's problem is the route itself. It's not possible to run fast along it (it's a 40 maximum for most of its length), and nearly every journey that would have a significant number of passengers would actually be faster via London. Plus the X5 handles it quite well, I think. Unless you were going to plan a whole new route, it's not worth reopening. The only plans there are for Chiltern to run trains into Oxford via a new chord from their line to Banbury.

It's a nice thought from ATOC. Of course, they're not the one spending money so they can say whatever they please. It doesn't have much bearing. For instance, they mention Uckfield-Lewes. Again. An expensive report on reopening that just finished a few months back and it was a "No".

A few years ago they re-opened the line from Bicester to Oxford, which I have only ever used once, because the buses go from virtually outside my parents' house, and take you into the centre of Oxford pretty quickly. In fact, I don't know how frequent trains from Bicester to Oxford are, but I assume that it is part of the old line which used to go from Cambridge and Milton Keynes?

 

[Chz]

Yup, that's where Chiltern is going to run their trains down in 4-5 years' time. They're even making a new station just outside Kidlington to serve it. I think it's fairly well known that the Oxford-Bicester train shuttle sucks balls, as the bus still gets much better patronage. I think it's something the outlet mall paid for - they get a disturbing number of Japanese tourists. It's frankly a bit bizarre to have several Japanese people in the middle of historic Oxford ask you the best way to get to Bicester.

If you look at Bicester Town on Google Maps' satellite view, you can easily follow the line out to Bletchley and Bedford. The main problems with the route (aside from being out of use and possibly built on in spots) is the number of twists and flat junctions needed to get to Cambridge. Plus to serve Milton Keynes, you'd need a reversal as well - one of the main arguments in favour of just keeping the X5 is the service to MK.

 

[Tank Girl]

I'd love it if those hampshire lines got opened again

 

[Guineveretoo]

I didn't know Bicester Village had anything to do with it, but it may well have played a role. There is a shuttle bus service from the other station (i.e. the main London to Banbury line) in Bicester to Bicester Village.

I hate Bicester Village. I genuinely remember when that used to be fields - we used to walk my parents' dog there - and the road traffic makes it hell to live around there.

But yeah, that's offtopic.

Yup, that's where Chiltern is going to run their trains down in 4-5 years' time. They're even making a new station just outside Kidlington to serve it. I think it's fairly well known that the Oxford-Bicester train shuttle sucks balls, as the bus still gets much better patronage. I think it's something the outlet mall paid for - they get a disturbing number of Japanese tourists. It's frankly a bit bizarre to have several Japanese people in the middle of historic Oxford ask you the best way to get to Bicester.

 

[davesgcr]

Its been well received generally - and I know just a bit about this report if you follow my gist

This is a starting list of options which really need to be funded by HMG and Treasury if they have a mind to - and there is very much work to do to get these things on the radar screen , funded and programmed. (Yes - I know its jargon but thats life)

On the basis that the Ebbw Vale , Vale of Glamorgan (are you listening Ed ?) and the Scottish Drumgelloch / Alloa have been extremely succesfull in racking up over a million journeys per year (well above estimates)

Read the report in the sense of its an options list - and at the end of the day there is a question on development of communties , carbon reduction and accessibilty (where there is a gap)

When you get positive feedback on things like Cranleigh in the commuter belt , let alone the brownfield schemes such as the Blyth and Tyne - then you do think one is pushing at an open door !!!!


Its not all about HSL and so on - important though these are in the macro view - but about sensible short links where rail can really make a good local contribution.

Feedback very welcome

 

[starfish2000]

More nonsense to distract the populace from the cold hard fact.

The mainlines are almost at capacity

We need a dedicated high speed network, we've needed one for the last 15 years

We wont get one cos the Establishment of trhis country want to keep everything London Centered, but we need a North South High Speed line, not endless fucking enquiry after enquirey

 

[Crispy]

Well, planning for HS2 is in motion right now, and the noises from both sides of govt are encouraging. These small proposals are 'as well as' not 'instead of' - they're small projects that can pay back their low investment costs. Worth doing both, imo.

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

We wont get one cos the Establishment of trhis country want to keep everything London Centered, but we need a North South High Speed line, not endless fucking enquiry after enquirey

What is the route proposed for High Speed Two... I thought it went via London....

 

[Crispy]

london to birmingham, to start with

 

[editor]

Thinking about it, what Monmouth really needs, and would have made a big difference to me when I was growing up, is a railway line that follows the route of the dual carriageway from Newport.

Newport–Usk–Raglan–Monmouth–Ross-on-Wye–Hereford.

That would really connect Monmouth up.

That's exactly what it used to have! The A40/A449 between Monmouth and Usk is built around the route of the railway from Pontypool to Coleford - that's why you can see the old Raglan station right next to it.

The line went: Newport -> Pontypool -> Usk -> Monmouth -> Ross On Wye - Hereford, with various junctions/connections on the way.

 

[teuchter]

A few years ago they re-opened the line from Bicester to Oxford, which I have only ever used once, because the buses go from virtually outside my parents' house, and take you into the centre of Oxford pretty quickly. In fact, I don't know how frequent trains from Bicester to Oxford are, but I assume that it is part of the old line which used to go from Cambridge and Milton Keynes?

I was in Oxford just a few weeks ago and noticed adverts saying they had upped the frequency on that route.

I needed to go to Bicester a year or two back and ended up getting the bus because the train service was so pathetic.

 

[editor]

I was in Oxford just a few weeks ago and noticed adverts saying they had upped the frequency on that route.

I needed to go to Bicester a year or two back and ended up getting the bus because the train service was so pathetic.

From this very site:

Bicester Town station

This sad wreck of a terminus has suffered the ignominy of having all its buildings demolished and replaced by coach park.

There's been strong lobbying to reinstate the through link to Cambridge, but at the moment it remains the slowest line I've ever been on!

http://www.urban75.org/photos/oxon/oxon011.html

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

london to birmingham, to start with

You see in an ideal world this would be great but I'm not convinced this is the best way to spend a finite pot of money.


Birmingham/London only takes 1 hour 20 at the minute. What are they proposing to get that down to? I doubt you could get it below an hour, even with the best technology.

If I was currently in the South East, and wanting to get to the West Midlands, the most important factor in making me use a train rather than a car would be having stations near me and my destination. Shaving 20 mins off the London to Brum bit is no good if I have to spend 15 minutes waiting for a bus, then another half hour getting to the nearest station, and repeat at the Birmingham end.

On the other hand if I was in central Birmingham and wanted to attend a meeting in central London, I'm almost certainly using the train already......

Reopening stations and building light rail in cities would be more useful in getting cars off the road. Investing in rural branch lines (or bus services if a branch line is too dear) would help those who can't afford a car. This project helps neither.

 

[Crispy]

The problem is capacity, and the most over-used main line is the west coast line, so building a new railway to b'ham will free up capacity for other trains. Extending the line will be a second phase on to manchester.

Plenty of people fly from birmingham to london, so there's definitely a market for HST

 

[Final]

Plenty of people fly from birmingham to london, so there's definitely a market for HST

damn.

Manchester I can just about understand... but think I'd have to be in a big rush to fly to birmingham. Airports = far too much faffing about.

 

[david dissadent]

Well, planning for HS2 is in motion right now, and the noises from both sides of govt are encouraging..

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/business/2009/06/01-hs-two.html

Sounds funky and the torries were proposing this in place of Heathrows third runway but......


can we afford £20-£30 billion or whatever it will cost?