Towards an authentic anti fascist popular front

[Bajie]

Well I think it is best to have specific objectives, rather than a huge set of unrealistic aims.

In that context the objective is for the BNP to fuck off and die. So it comes down establishing what exactly they are, what impact they are actually having on UK culture, what the risk of their expansion is, what their support base is and how that support base can be prevented from being expanded and then decreased.

In terms of Islamic Extremism, do you mean inside the UK or in other countries?

 

[Prince Rhyus]

Sorry, whenever I hear the phrase "popular front" I just think:

 

[BlackArab]

I'm not going to point at any post in particular but whenever these threads come up I imagine myself spouting some of what you're saying to the lads at the football and what their reaction would be. Please understand I'm not saying your posts are incorrect or wrong but if you're talking about building a working class anti-fascist movement, compare the previous posts to this durrutti posted on another thread:

" Joe Cardiff 24 October at 09:33
alright lads, the plan with wdl is to let the dust die down from swansea, then we'll have a demo unnanounced in cardiff, hand out flyers etc

those idiots seig heiling in swansea have done us so much damage they may as well have stood with the uaf, they think they are clever cunts, all they are is enemies of any attempt to get this country back

we'll never win the fight against al qaida as long as people worship hitler and seig heil, how is the public gonna view that?

its been agreed anyone doing it in leeds is gonna get chinned, and no mistake"

Not saying I agree with all of Joe's political beliefs but it's a simple and effective, no?

 

[Bajie]

So what? That is how I used to talk about 17 years ago when it came to the 'what to do about nazis' question. Effective if you want someone just to get away from you (or your shouty demo) or stop the 'control the streets' nonsense, not so effective when a far right group is waging a electorial campaign, times have moved on.

 

[The39thStep]

Yes, It's a case of semantics really. Anarchism does have a problem with it's image.

The failure to establish a creditable brand in an over crowded market has been an issue for the anarchist scene for some time

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Isn't anti-racism more apt?

 

[The Black Hand]

ha ha - TBH falls victim to a performative contradiction

NO, I meant they are irrelevant. The pedantic epidemic is alarming.

 

[The Black Hand]

The term "popular front" is unfortunate if you examine its historical precedents. Most of the Popular Fronts of the 1930s were unsuccessful for various reasons.

In many cases they acted as vehicles by which the various National Communist Parties sought to push the rest of the left into support for Stalin's Foreign Policy or domestic policies which would suit it. The Popular Fronts were used to marginalise or repress those elements of the left that "didn't fit in" or were too critical of Stalinism - i.e. Anarchists, syndicalists, various "Trotskyist" elements. In their enthusiasm for uniting with the middle class liberal and centrist parties the Popular Fronts sabotaged workers fightbacks which should have formed the real basis of resistance - that based on class and democracy in, and control of, workplaces and communities. In fetishising the liberal capitalist (purely formal) version of democracy as a "bulwark against fascism" they undermined any attempts to question it in favour of real (economic and social) democracy.

All these elements have unfortunately been present in latter day British anti-fascist popular Fronts, with the SWP playing the role of the 30s CPs - "the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce" as someone once said.

It really should not need me, member of the left current in a largely middle class radical party to point this out to latter day anarchists and revolutionaries should it?

No, I am quite aware that the history you speak of is fraught with reaction.

However, the politics of popular unity is a constant struggle, and without it there is no effect on the national political level that is where we should aim to be. Without it there is no theory/practice/praxis and all the hardnosed politico's have is IDEOLOGY as the situationists said (completely useless neo religious belief in their cult/sect).

The irrelevant tiny left sect/cult/groupuscules/ inc SWP, IWCA, CP, and the anarchists are incapable of promoting it alone, and infact they don't WANT it to work enough. Instead they fall back into the self referential safety net of the cult/sect/left/anarcho ghetto.

A lot of people, the informal popular front sensibilities i mentioned, want succesful working class politics but the hardnosed pedantic politicos combine to sabotage it at every turn. Including those who argue against the idea on this thread.

 

[The Black Hand]

Yes, It's a case of semantics really. Anarchism does have a problem with it's image.

Indeed, it is a waste of time promoting the idea abstractly. Instead, people should drop the fetishisation of 'being anarchist', or mentioning the word.

Instead, people should promote anarchism in practice through the ideas of self reliance, cooperation and practical reciprocal solidarity in their political activities where they can.

It is not being dishonest to drop the word anarchism, it is authentic praxis to reveal if people are interested in the core ideas of anarchism without any ideological baggage poisoning the experiment. Post up the results here

 

[The Black Hand]

Sorry, whenever I hear the phrase "popular front" I just think:

Quite.

The reactionary practices of the anarchist and left groupuscules has a lot to answer for. However, now is the time to go beyond their irrelevances and the reactionary view that the politics of popular unity should always be utopian.

 

[ChrisC]

Anarchism would never work. The only way it would work, and this would never happen, is if everyone was enlightened. Then anarchy would work.

 

[The Black Hand]

Anarchism would never work. The only way it would work, and this would never happen, is if everyone was enlightened. Then anarchy would work.

Anarchism has 'worked' many times before, you could ready 'Anarchy in Action' by Colin Ward for example, or some of the great anarchism in Spain during the the Spanish Revolution (1936-39).

Capitalism works in sense that the world is in constant conflict, a lot of people have hard lives, wars, etc and we're heading for ecological disasater.

There IS a better way.

 

[ChrisC]

Maybe the Spanish are more civilised than the English. Can you really see modern Britain being anarchic? Too many selfish cunts in this country for it to work.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Maybe the Spanish are more civilised than the English. Can you really see modern Britain being anarchic? Too many selfish cunts in this country for it to work.

lol

 

[BlackArab]

So what? That is how I used to talk about 17 years ago when it came to the 'what to do about nazis' question. Effective if you want someone just to get away from you (or your shouty demo) or stop the 'control the streets' nonsense, not so effective when a far right group is waging a electorial campaign, times have moved on.

waging an electoral campaign aimed at the white working class who are just as turned off left wing political debate and factionalism as they have been for the last 30 years

 

[cesare]

NO, I meant they are irrelevant. The pedantic epidemic is alarming.

 

[kyser_soze]

mutual class interests.

Y'see, this is where the problems start. Convincing a religious person that they are better served by joining up with what is essentially a secularist political ideology in order to 'futher their class interests' is going to be an uphill struggle at the best of times, and at it's heart is a dishonesty about final aims and goals, on both sides.

Someone who's a theist isn't likely to see class division as the biggest problem in the world. They're going to see it as not enough people sharing their faith. Much like the person who sees class division as the biggest problem in the world in fact.

That anyone thinks someone with deep religious convictions is ever going to put class issues ahead of that is an idiot, IMV.

 

[The Black Hand]

Only in your imagination....

 

[The Black Hand]

ha ha - TBH falls victim to a performative contradiction

That's the irrelevant contradiction.

 

[mrfusion]

We have football against racism and rock against racism - and I won't do those down. But I think those kind of campaigns, which hook onto mass media events are the way to go. Cinema anti-fascist trailers would be worth a huge amount of small protests. Not that individual actions should be forgotten - the local BNP guy that drinks at my my local managed to get himself sent to coventry, and has been much friendlier since then, as far as local concerns go.

But who really knows? I do think more aggressive campaigning from the left could be influential. I think anti-nazi protests just waste money on a very small section of society. I would like to see a kind of national meeting, in which everyone opposed to the right could me and exchange ideas. And not in London.

 

[The Black Hand]

We have football against racism and rock against racism - and I won't do those down. But I think those kind of campaigns, which hook onto mass media events are the way to go. Cinema anti-fascist trailers would be worth a huge amount of small protests. Not that individual actions should be forgotten - the local BNP guy that drinks at my my local managed to get himself sent to coventry, and has been much friendlier since then, as far as local concerns go.

But who really knows? I do think more aggressive campaigning from the left could be influential. I think anti-nazi protests just waste money on a very small section of society. I would like to see a kind of national meeting, in which everyone opposed to the right could me and exchange ideas. And not in London.

Very good.

 

[ViolentPanda]

waging an electoral campaign aimed at the white working class who are just as turned off left wing political debate and factionalism as they have been for the last 30 years

I'd argue that they're not aiming their campaign at the white working class, but at the white lower middle classes. They don't want people on council estates, they want supporters who own their own homes, members of the petit bourgeoisie, people who'll imbue the BNP's message with a veneer of respectability. The BNP realise, just as well as the tories and the "I can't believe they're not tories" do, that it's the swing votes that count, not the masses, and while they may not be directly aiming for power, they are aiming for legitimisation.

 

[The Black Hand]

I'd argue that they're not aiming their campaign at the white working class, but at the white lower middle classes. They don't want people on council estates, they want supporters who own their own homes, members of the petit bourgeoisie, people who'll imbue the BNP's message with a veneer of respectability. The BNP realise, just as well as the tories and the "I can't believe they're not tories" do, that it's the swing votes that count, not the masses, and while they may not be directly aiming for power, they are aiming for legitimisation.

What they want and what they get are 2 entirely different things.

Funnily enough I think that anarchism/Marxism desperately needs a politics that can appeal to these people, and is such a long way off. That's because the purity of the ultra left and anarcho's cannot handle a relevant politics which probably will be a synthesis of previous positions, it will be sophisticated and not prone to neat classification and writing off.

 

[BlackArab]

I'd argue that they're not aiming their campaign at the white working class, but at the white lower middle classes. They don't want people on council estates, they want supporters who own their own homes, members of the petit bourgeoisie, people who'll imbue the BNP's message with a veneer of respectability. The BNP realise, just as well as the tories and the "I can't believe they're not tories" do, that it's the swing votes that count, not the masses, and while they may not be directly aiming for power, they are aiming for legitimisation.

Thinking about it, we're probably both right in some ways. They need the respectability of the lower mcs but they also realise that the white wc's are pretty much ignored by the mainstream parties and the left.

 

[The39thStep]

Thinking about it, we're probably both right in some ways. They need the respectability of the lower mcs but they also realise that the white wc's are pretty much ignored by the mainstream parties and the left.

They want both , the tension for the far right is in being able to address both audiences

 

[ViolentPanda]

What they want and what they get are 2 entirely different things.

Hopefully, in terms of "respectability", that's the case.

Funnily enough I think that anarchism/Marxism desperately needs a politics that can appeal to these people, and is such a long way off. That's because the purity of the ultra left and anarcho's cannot handle a relevant politics which probably will be a synthesis of previous positions, it will be sophisticated and not prone to neat classification and writing off.

My issue with some of the ultras and anarchos is that their "politics" aren't about politics as a method of societal change, but rather about the validity of one intellectual position over another, which isn't particularly helpful to the development of grass-roots support (although it may stroke the egos of the intellectuals something fierce).
As you say, an effective politics is likely to be a hotch-potch of relevant and effective parts, rather than an intellectually unified whole, and I think that scares some people; the idea that intellectual purity isn't necessarily relevant to "everyday life".
So, comrade, a platform?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Thinking about it, we're probably both right in some ways. They need the respectability of the lower mcs but they also realise that the white wc's are pretty much ignored by the mainstream parties and the left.

It's important to remember (as I'm sure Griffin and his noddies remember) that the most significant resistance to his type of politics has historically come from the working classes. He knows he's playing with fire with reference to the white working class, and it'll boil down to whether his greed transcends his fear as to how he engages with them. Personally, I suspect they'll try to consolidate and expand their local authority gains, while possibly indulging in standing for a couple of token general election seats next year. They've little to lose except their deposits as long as they continue playing a long game.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They want both , the tension for the far right is in being able to address both audiences

Something they've always found difficult, thankfully.

 

[The39thStep]

Something they've always found difficult, thankfully.

Look what happened to the ex marxists for griffin initiative for example?

 

[The Black Hand]

Hopefully, in terms of "respectability", that's the case.

A) My issue with some of the ultras and anarchos is that their "politics" aren't about politics as a method of societal change, but rather about the validity of one intellectual position over another, which isn't particularly helpful to the development of grass-roots support (although it may stroke the egos of the intellectuals something fierce).
B) As you say, an effective politics is likely to be a hotch-potch of relevant and effective parts, rather than an intellectually unified whole, and I think that scares some people; the idea that intellectual purity isn't necessarily relevant to "everyday life".
So, comrade, a platform?

Oh yes. You are getting me excited now

A) Spot on.
B) I've indicated that the 'linear narrative' doesn't work in everyday life, and I would dearly love to talk to those interested in such a synthesis.

Let's hope we can scare the 'ultras' away