Towards an authentic anti fascist popular front

[The Black Hand]

Following on from this thread on general;
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=307525

And this post in particular;
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=9910041&postcount=146

A key issue was raised. On the BNP Question Time popular opinion was/is/will be against the BNP, identifying perhaps an informal popular front against the BNP.

How we can encourage this, make this more political, and in a positive working class direction?

This is looking to go beyond ultra left purity, and in some ways is a leap into the unknown, however this is potentially a rewarding and essential path for anti fascism to travel. The only practical way to act politically with effect nationally, and beyond the cult/sect/party/ultra left groupuscule.

 

[cesare]

What's a 'groupuscule'?

 

[The Black Hand]

What's a 'groupuscule'?

Slang for a tiny, irrelevant, often ultra left but also anarchist sometimes, 'political group'.

 

[cesare]

Slang for a tiny, irrelevant, often ultra left but also anarchist sometimes, 'political group'.

If they're irrelevant, why bother mentioning them?

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Anti-fascism is the problem.

 

[The Black Hand]

Anti-fascism is the problem.

Quite, there is not enough of it.

 

[The Black Hand]

If they're irrelevant, why bother mentioning them?

I haven't mentioned any.

 

[cesare]

I haven't mentioned any.

You mentioned their existence in the OP, thereby lending them relevancy.

 

[The Black Hand]

You mentioned their existence in the OP, thereby lending them relevancy.

Only in your imagination.

 

[cesare]

Only in your imagination.

Not at all. If they're irrelevant, I don't know why it even occurred to you to mention them in your OP let alone invent a slang term for them.

 

[The Black Hand]

Not at all. If they're irrelevant, I don't know why it even occurred to you to mention them in your OP let alone invent a slang term for them.

The slang already existed, and yes, they are only relevant in your opinion. Not mine, and you can't project that into anybody else's either.

 

[The Black Hand]

If they're irrelevant, why bother mentioning them?

You are doing what this guy in the op said;
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=307551

 

[fractionMan]

You are doing what this guy in the op said;
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=307551

No, cesare's making a valid point.

 

[fractionMan]

groupuscule could be a good word in a different context though. Sounds like some sort of slimy body fluid skin disease explosion.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Quite, there is not enough of it.

I just disagree with the paradigm, I suppose. You're addressing the right question ('...for what?'), though.

 

[cesare]

The slang already existed, and yes, they are only relevant in your opinion. Not mine, and you can't project that into anybody else's either.

Dunno about whether or not the slang already existed. But you raised the issue of "beyond the cult/sect/party/ultra left groupuscule" and if these 'groupuscules' were irrelevant, presumably you wouldn't need to do anything beyond them, let alone highlight them.

Admit it. You just meant 'obscure' or perhaps 'ineffective' rather than irrelevant, didn't you?

 

[articul8]

ha ha - TBH falls victim to a performative contradiction

 

[audiotech]

Advisable not to copy .

 

[moon23]

Essentially the reason why the BNP is gaining popularity is the left has failed to universally tackle fascism and extremism in all its guises. It has failed to be true Anifta. The working class see crypto-fascist organizations like the Taliban and Extremist Jihadist and cry out for a popular front to oppose it alongside other forms of fascism such a Nazism, and Racism. People then belive that the BNP are the only solution, when really they simply hate all Muslims and will make the problem worse.

The so called Left has been too scared to speak out against Islamic extremism for a number of reasons:

1. Islamic Extremism has been used as a justification by the state to wage wars, and remove essential liberties of the people.

2. Recognition of the problem of Islamic extremism could then be seen, to support the states medicine. For instance if those opposing the war banged the drum more loudly against Islamic extremism, then it might make the states argument for war seem stronger. This is a fallacy, in denying the problem there has been no opposing solution to tackle it.

3. As the state and media have demonized on group of people, the Left has tended to side with conservative forces within that demonized group that share the same ‘identity’ regardless of their views. This embrace of Identity politics has furthered the BNPs aims and goals.

Many genuine working class now turn to the EDL that does tackle extremism, but does so by defending the British state and establishment rather than any universal idea of freedom. As such the Establishment that enslaves working people and which interests serve only the ruling class has now become the rallying flag around which the working classes turn to show off the fascist threat of Islamic Extremism.

I agree we need desperately to build a genuine popular front against all forms of extremism, whatever it’s guise for all people whatever their nation. We should smash the Ideological link perpetrated by the EDL between defending freedom and defending the nation state, but to do that we must have an inclusive popular front that speaks out against all forms of fascism.

 

[greenman]

The term "popular front" is unfortunate if you examine its historical precedents. Most of the Popular Fronts of the 1930s were unsuccessful for various reasons.

In many cases they acted as vehicles by which the various National Communist Parties sought to push the rest of the left into support for Stalin's Foreign Policy or domestic policies which would suit it. The Popular Fronts were used to marginalise or repress those elements of the left that "didn't fit in" or were too critical of Stalinism - i.e. Anarchists, syndicalists, various "Trotskyist" elements. In their enthusiasm for uniting with the middle class liberal and centrist parties the Popular Fronts sabotaged workers fightbacks which should have formed the real basis of resistance - that based on class and democracy in, and control of, workplaces and communities. In fetishising the liberal capitalist (purely formal) version of democracy as a "bulwark against fascism" they undermined any attempts to question it in favour of real (economic and social) democracy.

All these elements have unfortunately been present in latter day British anti-fascist popular Fronts, with the SWP playing the role of the 30s CPs - "the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce" as someone once said.

It really should not need me, member of the left current in a largely middle class radical party to point this out to latter day anarchists and revolutionaries should it?

 

[Bajie]

Essentially the reason why the BNP is gaining popularity is the left has failed to universally tackle fascism and extremism in all its guises. It has failed to be true Anifta. The working class see crypto-fascist organizations like the Taliban and Extremist Jihadist and cry out for a popular front to oppose it alongside other forms of fascism such a Nazism, and Racism. People then belive that the BNP are the only solution, when really they simply hate all Muslims and will make the problem worse.

The so called Left has been too scared to speak out against Islamic extremism for a number of reasons:

1. Islamic Extremism has been used as a justification by the state to wage wars, and remove essential liberties of the people.

2. Recognition of the problem of Islamic extremism could then be seen, to support the states medicine. For instance if those opposing the war banged the drum more loudly against Islamic extremism, then it might make the states argument for war seem stronger. This is a fallacy, in denying the problem there has been no opposing solution to tackle it.

3. As the state and media have demonized on group of people, the Left has tended to side with conservative forces within that demonized group that share the same ‘identity’ regardless of their views. This embrace of Identity politics has furthered the BNPs aims and goals.

Many genuine working class now turn to the EDL that does tackle extremism, but does so by defending the British state and establishment rather than any universal idea of freedom. As such the Establishment that enslaves working people and which interests serve only the ruling class has now become the rallying flag around which the working classes turn to show off the fascist threat of Islamic Extremism.

I agree we need desperately to build a genuine popular front against all forms of extremism, whatever it’s guise for all people whatever their nation. We should smash the Ideological link perpetrated by the EDL between defending freedom and defending the nation state, but to do that we must have an inclusive popular front that speaks out against all forms of fascism.

To be fair, the reality is the EDL just stand around shouting at people. Not sure how that tackles extremism.

And most of the examples you give are not fascism.

 

[moon23]

To be fair, the reality is the EDL just stand around shouting at people. Not sure how that tackles extremism.

And most of the examples you give are not fascism.

Shouting at people doesn’t, so I more accurately should have said the EDL seek to oppose extremism.

Insofar as Militant Fundamental Islamism is about a political higherarchy implementing states or Caliphate under an extreme authoritarian rule I would say it is a form of fascism. It's a form of Nationalism more than religion, for instance the Taliban want to establish a nation state that supports their current patriarchy in Afghanistan, and use a pseudo-religious justification to achieve that ends.

 

[Bajie]

Yes I agree with everything except it is not a form of Fascism, because Fascism is a political ideology that shares many of those traits but an authoritarian nationalist regime is not fascist just because it is authoritarian.

I am aginst all authoritarian ways of gouverment, and fascism is just one of those.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes I agree with everything except it is not a form of Fascism, because Fascism is a political ideology that shares many of those traits but an authoritarian nationalist regime is not fascist just because it is authoritarian.

I am aginst all authoritarian ways of gouverment, and fascism is just one of those.

so you're an anarchist?

 

[DeepStoat]

Antifascism needs to earn some respect among non-political white w/c lads.

At the moment it's a vague memory from the past for most.

 

[Bajie]

so you're an anarchist?

I have always thought of myself as a libertarian socialist, which depending on the defintion could mean the same thing.

 

[Bajie]

Antifascism needs to earn some respect among non-political white w/c lads.

At the moment it's a vague memory from the past for most.

The fact is the emphasis has changed, away from NF/BNP trying to 'control the streets' to the BNP trying to make themselves attractive to a wide range of white british people as possible in order to get electoral sucess.

So from that angle, it is not just young men, it is everyone that needs to be included and that is how it should be.

I dont think there is a country wide soloution, but only local soloutions as the BNP feed on local anger but a coherent response to the national elephant in the room that is immigration needs to be given on a local level that is not focused on multi-culturalism but on mutual class interests.

 

[moon23]

Yes I agree with everything except it is not a form of Fascism, because Fascism is a political ideology that shares many of those traits but an authoritarian nationalist regime is not fascist just because it is authoritarian.

I am aginst all authoritarian ways of gouverment, and fascism is just one of those.

Well we are quibbling over definition of facism here becuase we call it anti-facism. Perhaps that is really the problem with anti-facism, that the latest forms of authoritarian goverance no longer fit the historic model of resistance?
What do you think about that?

 

[moon23]

I have always thought of myself as a libertarian socialist, which depending on the defintion could mean the same thing.

Yes, It's a case of semantics really. Anarchism does have a problem with it's image.

 

[moon23]

The fact is the emphasis has changed, away from NF/BNP trying to 'control the streets' to the BNP trying to make themselves attractive to a wide range of white british people as possible in order to get electoral sucess.

So from that angle, it is not just young men, it is everyone that needs to be included and that is how it should be.

I dont think there is a country wide soloution, but only local soloutions as the BNP feed on local anger but a coherent response to the national elephant in the room that is immigration needs to be given on a local level that is not focused on multi-culturalism but on mutual class interests.

Do you not think that Islamic extermism also needs to be tackled as it seeks to impose a form of authortarian governance? Feeling that vacum would remove the fuel on which the BNP build their hatered against all those of a particular Identity.