Tory frontbencher says:-BNP voters' views 'legitimate'

[1927]

Surely by refusing bto have any sort of debate on immigration and denying that there is a problem the major aprties are driving people towards the BNP who are quite willing to have the debate and misinform. It is not only in Uk that this is happening as evidenced by the rise of the right in places like France and Belgium.

 

[sleaterkinney]

The real winners are immigrants themselves, the big business thing is a mistake, they would have made that money anyway.

There is at the very least widespread concern about immigration.

Is there?. The tories ran on that platform in the last election against a weak government and got nowhere, the bnp are just picking up a few council seats here and there.

I really can't understand why there seems to be an assumption by so many people that anyone who has concerns is racist.

It saves time.

 

[becky p]

Surely by refusing bto have any sort of debate on immigration and denying that there is a problem the major aprties are driving people towards the BNP who are quite willing to have the debate and misinform. It is not only in Uk that this is happening as evidenced by the rise of the right in places like France and Belgium.

If Labour are not careful though,the Tories could really use this issue.
Having a muslim woman raise this issue may be quite a smart move by the Tories. Most people from BME backgrounds more than share the concern over migration.
And their views are often misrepresented or ignored. The issues that Labour are weakest on are Crime and Immigration. If the tories manage to shift public attention to those issues, they may yet give Gordon Brown a run for his money.

 

[butchersapron]

The real winners are immigrants themselves, the big business thing is a mistake, they would have made that money anyway.

Would they? Would they have the recent wage deflation have occoured? The rise in productivity?

 

[northernhord]

Its not uncommon for the Tories to show their true colours, I recall a good while back when a black guy was replacing the outgoing Conservative MP for Cheltenham, the outgoing Tory MP called the new man a Nigger.

 

[butchersapron]

But the real winner is big business and so its easier to call everyone racist than have any form of rational debate

Is there?. The tories ran on that platform in the last election against a weak government and got nowhere, the bnp are just picking up a few council seats here and there.

Yes there is, Whether you or i like it. Do you honestly not think that there is some concern? And no the tories didn't run on that platform alone - and the BNP are doing a bit better than just picking up a few council seats, they're achieve a historic high for the far right in electoral terms. From there only ever being 2 far right couniullors in the whole of history of the country to over 50 in five years, and with a whole series of very dstroing other results suggests something to me.

 

[butchersapron]

Its not uncommon for the Tories to show their true colours, I recall a good while back when a black guy was replacing the outgoing Conservative MP for Cheltenham, the outgoing Tory MP called the new man a Nigger.

Black bloke now a tory lord to keep quiet.

 

[gnoriac]

I really can't understand why there seems to be an assumption by so many people that anyone who has concerns is racist.

It may be something to do with the far right being anti-immigration.

 

[chymaera]

It may be something to do with the far right being anti-immigration.

But it isn't just the far right. (Not unless 75% of the population have suddenly lurched to the far right politically.)

 

[butchersapron]

But it isn't just the far right. (Not unless 75% of the population have suddenly lurched to the far right politically.)

Figure means what? That 75 % of the population are anti-immigration? Where is the figure from?

 

[gnoriac]

But it isn't just the far right. (Not unless 75% of the population have suddenly lurched to the far right politically.)

Where I live I could quite honestly believe that. This seems to have become a country of conservative consumerists.

 

[butchersapron]

Where I live I could quite honestly believe that. This seems to have become a country of conservative consumerists.

What on eath is that post supposed to mean politically?

 

[Blagsta]

Those who live in social housing who are the ones voting BNP. Yeah, great fun if your're middle class. Cheap plumbers and all the rest of it, but it doesn't seem to be the middle class turning to the BNP.

I'm not sure this is true tbh.

 

[chymaera]

Figure means what? That 75 % of the population are anti-immigration? Where is the figure from?

Opinion poll after opinion poll for sometime now has resulted in around 75% of those interviewed having serious concerns, or similar about immigration.
This probably accounts for immigration being commented on by the mainstream parties as much as it is.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Would they? Would they have the recent wage deflation have occoured? The rise in productivity?

Could have been rising interest rates. If they didn't make money there it would be something else.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Yes there is, Whether you or i like it. Do you honestly not think that there is some concern? And no the tories didn't run on that platform alone - and the BNP are doing a bit better than just picking up a few council seats, they're achieve a historic high for the far right in electoral terms. From there only ever being 2 far right couniullors in the whole of history of the country to over 50 in five years, and with a whole series of very dstroing other results suggests something to me.

If and when they make a serious tilt at a parliment seat it will worry me, but nobody cares (imo) about council seats.

 

[gnoriac]

What on eath is that post supposed to mean politically?

Not a political post, but an observation of where Britains' gone, a country of Sun / DM readers who blame Johnny Foreigner for all their woes.

 

[Andy the Don]

I'm not sure this is true tbh.

So why are the BNP picking up council seats & their largest share of the votes in areas like Daggenham, Barking, Burnley & not Guildford or Cheltenham..??

It would be because in those places there is a greater concentration of immigrants (1st or 2nd generation). Combined with a "depressed" white working class than in Guildford or Cheltenham where the BNP do not bother to stand.

 

[Prince Rhyus]

Its not uncommon for the Tories to show their true colours, I recall a good while back when a black guy was replacing the outgoing Conservative MP for Cheltenham, the outgoing Tory MP called the new man a Nigger.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/talking_politics/1304393.stm

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor,_Baron_Taylor_of_Warwick

for background.

On the general point, if people are basing their voting preferences on their experiences in life and end up voting for the far right, what does this say about the ways of life that are being lived in such areas?

If people are basing their voting preferences based on ignorance of both facts and experiences (e.g. people who vote for the far-right but who have no interaction with people with different skin colours or people from other countries and base their preferences on the front pages of tabliod newspapers), then what does this say about community relations, education and civic society within said place?

I asked someone from a local authority recently: "I see you've got posters for voluntary groups that label themselves by gender and/or ethnic group. How do such organisations help the Government achieve its goal of community cohesion when they automatically divide people by gender and/or ethnicity?"

 

[Blagsta]

So why are the BNP picking up council seats & their largest share of the votes in areas like Daggenham, Barking, Burnley & not Guildford or Cheltenham..??

It would be because in those places there is a greater concentration of immigrants (1st or 2nd generation). Combined with a "depressed" white working class than in Guildford or Cheltenham where the BNP do not bother to stand.

I'm sure I read somewhere they were getting middle class voters, but I can't remember where. I may have misremembered.

 

[Ned Pointsman]

There are no 'views on immigration' only views on the free market, I for one, would like to know why the bnp print their newspaper in Slovakia, British labour not good enough for them ?

Anyone claiming 'there is no debate on immigration' is a gobshite pisscunt, it dominates the agenda and has done for years, any such claims, as the purveyors well know serve only to paint the impression that certain views are 'clandestine and edgy' when infact they're constantly plastered all over the media.

If and when they make a serious tilt at a parliment seat it will worry me, but nobody cares (imo) about council seats.

I've heard of a few of them not turning up to meetings and so forth, famously that one bloke claimed "it was all over his head". I'd love to know what the actual statistics are regarding how many of them actively perform the role for the term.

 

[butchersapron]

Opinion poll after opinion poll for sometime now has resulted in around 75% of those interviewed having serious concerns, or similar about immigration.
This probably accounts for immigration being commented on by the mainstream parties as much as it is.

Give us a few links then to that 75% being anti-immigration then please.

 

[butchersapron]

Could have been rising interest rates. If they didn't make money there it would be something else.

Uh -no, even they don't say that. They clearly say that immigration has (amongst other things) acted to bring about downwards pressure on wages. That's not in any doubt, What this means politically in terms of class composition and what to do about this is the question. And immigration controls or anti-immigration campaigns aren't the answer before i get jumpoed on.

And no, business doesn't just make what it wants when it wants - its subject to constraintsand resistance that effects what it can expect back in terms of profit. See the historically low average rate of profit - and the differing rates of profit.

 

[butchersapron]

If and when they make a serious tilt at a parliment seat it will worry me, but nobody cares (imo) about council seats.

Yes they do, They care a fair bit because despite the relative disempowerment of local councils in the last few decades, they still wield a fairly substantial amount of power. Something that the more successful far-right in France has realised and made a centre of its approach - council after council in the south falling to them and racist policies being enacted as a result. There's fare less power in having an MP than in controlling a council.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Those who live in social housing who are the ones voting BNP.

What do you base this on?

Yeah, great fun if your're middle class. Cheap plumbers and all the rest of it, but it doesn't seem to be the middle class turning to the BNP.

It doesn't?
Do you suffer from a hereditary sight defect, by any chance??

 

[YoursTruly]

Give us a few links then to that 75% being anti-immigration then please.

Can you give us a few links for anyone that's anti-immigration?

Thanks!

 

[butchersapron]

Can you give us a few links for anyone that's anti-immigration?

Thanks!

What? But yep, here's one:

http*****://www.bnp.org.uk/

 

[YoursTruly]

What? But yep, here's one:

http*****://www.bnp.org.uk/

Nope. They are not anti-immigration.



You must try harder.

 

[chymaera]

Can you give us a few links for anyone that's anti-immigration?

Thanks!

Migration Watch, The Optimum Population Trust.

 

[YoursTruly]

Migration Watch, The Optimum Population Trust.

Wrong wrong wrong! Not even migration watch is anti-immigration!

e2a and neither is the Optimum Population Trust.