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Torture Camp Watch

ska invita

back on the other side
22257202.jpg

Of course we have had threads on Guantanemo elsewhere but I thought it would be worthwhile to start a thread that pools information and comment on US prisons/ torture camps. To include "extraordinary rendition" and the spotting of any other camps that make it into print.

Just what is the scale of this outrage? Anomaly in good faith my arse.

Documents Reveal the Stories of Prisoners at Guantanamo Bay
WASHINGTON — Forced by a federal court to lift the cloak of secrecy that had long shrouded the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the Pentagon released thousands of pages of documents Friday containing names and other details for hundreds of detainees scooped up after the Sept. 11 attacks.
[...]The records render portraits of more than 300 current and former detainees. Some described themselves as farmers or low-level Taliban foot soldiers; some were accused by their U.S. captors of having attended Al Qaeda training camps and of being associates of senior terrorist operatives.
 
US-run jail in Afghanistan 'worse than Guantanamo'
An American-run prison for terrorist suspects in Afghanistan has grown to rival and even eclipse Guantanamo Bay with hundreds of inmates in legal limbo, it was disclosed yesterday.

Away from the spotlight focused on the more notorious detention camp in Cuba, Bagram, a US base north of Kabul, now houses about 500 detainees, claimed the New York Times.

Inmates who need extra special treatment are being shiped from Guantanemo to Bagram
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/04/AR2005080402125_pf.html
The Bush administration is negotiating the transfer of nearly 70 percent of the detainees at the U.S. detention facility in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to three countries as part of a plan, officials said, to share the burden of keeping suspected terrorists behind bars.
Aside from Afghanistan the other two countries down for new terror camps are "Saudi Arabia and Yemen".

In a military fact sheet about "the future" of Guantanamo, developed in early July, defense officials indicated that the operational priority of the facility is to shift from intelligence gathering to long-term detention.
...long term detention? Four years isnt long term detention?
 
The news that Abu Ghraib will close http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1727465,00.html is no victory ~ Since the 4,500 prisoners will be transferred to other prisons nothing changes, in fact perhaps these other prisons/camps are going to be less visble to the monitors who watch these cases.

The question remains where these prisoners are going to go to...quite possibly outside of IRaq, as well as the earmarked site, "Camp Cropper" at the US military headquarters at Baghdad airport.
 
Only an opinion piece, but as the author is

Gregory D. Foster a professor at the Industrial College of the Armed Forces, National Defense University, Washington;
and it's in the IHT;
It seems that a very important % of the US military are prepared to fight this openly.

"Citing the brutal detainee deaths reported by Human Rights First that are clearly attributable to cruel and inhuman treatment bordering on torture, retired Rear Admiral John Hutson, former Navy Judge Advocate General, has noted acerbically: "One such incident is an isolated transgression; two is a serious problem; a dozen of them is policy."

Having taught for two decades at the National Defense University in Washington, I have grown mind- numbingly accustomed to hearing the future generals and admirals who are our students disparage what they are convinced is the decadence of American society. Ironically, they cluelessly mistake their own pronounced moral arrogance for the true moral superiority expected of them.

I also have listened time and again to their complaints about having to unnecessarily endure ethics and leadership instruction at their advanced level of experience and achievement. They consider themselves ethically pure, gifted even, yet they see no contradiction in the gross ethical failings of their superiors, whom they venerate and are about to emulate. "

Linky
 
Guantanamo on the Mississippi

My first reaction to this was,' oh here's something for the Katrina thread'
but is seems to me that it fits in with the whole idea that while torture has been greenlighted from dubya down, it's only a stretch from normal policy.

"People were beaten, an entire room of men was forced to strip and jump up and down and make sexual gestures towards one another. I cannot describe to you the terror that the young men we spoke to conveyed to us."

Sound familiar at all.

More
 
Many of the prison guards working in Iraq were former prison guards in the US (reservists) - Lindsay German (Was that her name?) the most famous one.

Us prisons are a scandal: the largest prison population in the world (over 2million), and the subject of a number of amnesty investigations and campaigns.
--------------------------------------
Camps in Poland and Romania? Possibly:

" ABC News, citing what it said were current and former CIA operatives, reported Monday that Poland and Romania had housed the secret prisons for al Qaeda terrorists, moving the detainees to another undisclosed facility in North Africa just before Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice began a fence-mending trip to Europe this week."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20051206-100640-6465r.htm
 
Another rotten apple .
Yeah.

"A jury found an Army dog handler guilty Tuesday of abusing detainees at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison by terrifying them with a military dog, allegedly for his own amusement."

"The government contended that Smith, of the 523rd Military Police Detachment, Fort Riley, Kan., used his black Belgian shepherd to intimidate five prisoners for fun and competed with another canine handler trying to make detainees soil themselves."

"The defense argued that Smith was a good soldier who had done what he was supposed to do by having his dog bark at prisoners in a dangerous, chaotic environment where policies were so fuzzy that even the general who supervised interrogations testified he felt confused."
 
Drip Drip,

"The more revelations there are of detainee abuse by US troops, the more evident it is that the guards who mistreated prisoners at Abu Ghraib were not just a few bad apples, as the Bush administration has described them. A New York Times report Sunday focused on a detention center at Baghdad airport where FBI, CIA, and civilian Department of Defense officials complained to their superiors about the harsh tactics, including beatings, used by military interrogators. "

"In late 2003, warnings of what was going on at the center came from medics who saw injuries on detainees that could have come from beatings. By 2004, relations between military and civilian officials were strained enough for reports to reach the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, Vice Admiral Lowell E. Jacoby."

Apples
 
Seymour Hersh's article The Gray Zone, based on leaks from his spooky pals, puts forward the explanation for systematic US torture. He suggests that this started as something being done by elite counter-terrorism units of the sort whose activites aren't subject to public scrutiny. Abu Ghraib, according to this way of thinking was the result of the civilians in the Pentagon ordering these techniques to be franchised out in the panic that ensued when they realised the insurgency in Iraq was out of control.

The New York Times now provides some insight into one such unit. Here's a summary with quotes (the article is pay to view) from a right wing US blogger.

http://www.belgraviadispatch.com/2006/03/nasty_ass_military_area.html
Task Force 6-26 was a creation of the Pentagon's post-Sept. 11 campaign against terrorism, and it quickly became the model for how the military would gain intelligence and battle insurgents in the future. Originally known as Task Force 121, it was formed in the summer of 2003, when the military merged two existing Special Operations units, one hunting Osama bin Laden in and around Afghanistan, and the other tracking Mr. Hussein in Iraq. (Its current name is Task Force 145.)

The task force was a melting pot of military and civilian units. It drew on elite troops from the Joint Special Operations Command, whose elements include the Army unit Delta Force, Navy's Seal Team 6 and the 75th Ranger Regiment. Military reservists and Defense Intelligence Agency personnel with special skills, like interrogators, were temporarily assigned to the unit. C.I.A. officers, F.B.I. agents and special operations forces from other countries also worked closely with the task force.
Task Force 6-26 had a singular focus: capture or kill Mr. Zarqawi, the Jordanian militant operating in Iraq. "Anytime there was even the smell of Zarqawi nearby, they would go out and use any means possible to get information from a detainee," one official said.

Defense Department personnel briefed on the unit's operations said the harsh treatment extended beyond Camp Nama to small field outposts in Baghdad, Falluja, Balad, Ramadi and Kirkuk. These stations were often nestled within the alleys of a city in nondescript buildings with suburban-size yards where helicopters could land to drop off or pick up detainees.

At the outposts, some detainees were stripped naked and had cold water thrown on them to cause the sensation of drowning, said Defense Department personnel who served with the unit.

In January 2004, the task force captured the son of one of Mr. Hussein's bodyguards in Tikrit. The man told Army investigators that he was forced to strip and that he was punched in the spine until he fainted, put in front of an air-conditioner while cold water was poured on him and kicked in the stomach until he vomited. Army investigators were forced to close their inquiry in June 2005 after they said task force members used battlefield pseudonyms that made it impossible to identify and locate the soldiers involved. The unit also asserted that 70 percent of its computer files had been lost.
 
to share the burden of keeping suspected terrorists behind bars.

So not actually been proved guilty of anything, but hey, we suspect, better keep them locked up.
 
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article355817.ece

While it remains unclear where exactly the men were held, human rights campaigners who interviewed them believe they were held in Djibouti, Afghanistan and somewhere in eastern Europe. It was alleged last year that the CIA had been operating covert "black site" prisons in Romania and Poland.

The three men - Muhammad Bashmilah, Salah Qaru and Muhammad al-Assad - are now struggling to rebuild their lives. Mr Assad told Amnesty International, which today publishes the men's testimony in a new report: "For me now, it has to be a new life, because I will never recover the old one."


Amnesty have also cited Czech as landing over twenty CIA jets..
 
Clarke, Prescott and Blair must all have been aware of 'rendition' flights, camps and the action within. Make sure they all get a good uppercut while they're on the ropes.
 
moono said:
Clarke, Prescott and Blair must all have been aware of 'rendition' flights, camps and the action within. Make sure they all get a good uppercut while they're on the ropes.

A thorough report on Europes (Britains) role in the flights came out today:

I wont summarise it, best to read the story for yourself.

The UK stands accused of not only allowing the use of British airspace and airports, but of providing information that was used during the torture of one suspect. The report adds that there is strong evidence to suspect two European states, Poland and Romania, of permitting the CIA to operate secret prisons on their soil, despite official denials.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1791991,00.html
 
The most authorative list has just arisen, it includes sites in:
Romania, Poland, Ukraine, Kosovo, Macedonia and Bulgaria.

Check this link for the story of a top secret document that has surfaced and implicated the US with these sites:
http://www.sundayherald.com/56171

The fax, intercepted by Swiss intelligence, indicates that Egypt has such proof. It is headed: “The Egyptians have access to sources which confirm the existence of American secret prisons”.

(Its interesting that Egypt has the evidence, as Egypt is incriminated for having these rendition spots also in that New Yorker piece above: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050214fa_fact6 which implicates Egypt, Morocco, Syria, and Jordan.)

more specific details include:

- the military base Mihail Kogalniceanu close to the [Romanian] city of Constanza at the Black Sea
-the Polish base Szymany[...] close by is the Stare Kiejkuty base used by Polish intelligence

Both Poland and Romania deny allowing CIA “black site” prisons to operate on their territory. EU justice commissioner Franco Frattini has warned that any member states caught operating secret jails on behalf of the Americans could have their voting rights suspended.

NOTE:Interesting to see what (if anything) happens the USA?

Russian TV has also accused Ukraine of running a secret CIA prison near Kiev, claiming that an old Soviet site used to store nuclear weapons has been turned into a holding facility where trucks have been seen delivering shipments of people to Ukrainian soldiers.
-
I hope someone in the US admin hangs for this...
Another more general interesting article here about how this has been reported in the USA and what government officials have admitted to:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2715
 
Following Bush's forced admission, the EU are going to dig into it, and hopefully shit on the countries listed above.
Euro-MPs demand CIA jail answers

Prisoners held at secret prisons have been moved to Guantanamo


Members of the European Parliament have called on European governments to come clean about alleged secret CIA prison camps on their territory.

The calls followed an admission by the US president that the camps existed and were used to hold al-Qaeda suspects.

EU officials have been examining the allegations, but governments have until now denied that any prisons exist.

One MEP said it was vital to know whether any EU members or candidate countries had been involved.

"The location of these prison camps must be made public," said German MEP Wolfgang Kreissl-Doerfler in a statement.

"We need to know if there has been any complicity in illegal acts by governments of EU countries or states seeking EU membership."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5323968.stm


let see if they get their voting rights suspended - as has been threatened (see post above)
 
Yesterday there was a very interesting interview on Democracy Now on the closing of these prisons [short extracts below]. One of the things I found hardest to believe is that, with the removal of these 14 prisoners to Guantanamo, the CIA are no longer holding any prisoners. They have an unknown number of secret prisons in different countries, but only 14 prisoners altogether??? I doubt it.

I also find this attempt to do an end run around international law very dubious, trying to change the law to "legalise" what their own supreme court has said was illegal. Do they think that such laws will protect them against the courts in the rest of the world?

President Bush made the admission as he ordered 14 prisoners previously held by the CIA to be transferred to Guantanamo Bay, where they could be tried by a military tribunal. The prisoners include alleged 9/11 mastermind Khaled Sheik Muhammad. Bush said the CIA is no longer holding any detainees, but that the secret prisons may be reopened..........
The court determined that a provision of the Geneva Conventions known as Common Article 3 applies to our war with al-Qaeda. This article includes provisions that prohibit outrages upon personal dignity and humiliating and degrading treatment. The problem is that these and other provisions of Common Article 3 are vague and undefined, and each could be interpreted in different ways by an American or foreign judges. And some believe our military and intelligence personnel involved in capturing and questioning terrorists could now be at risk of prosecution under the War Crimes Act, simply for doing their jobs in a thorough and professional way.

AMY GOODMAN: President Bush, yesterday. Barbara Olshansky joins us in the studio today, an attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights, author of Secret Trials and Executions: Military Tribunals and the Threat to Democracy. Welcome to Democracy Now!, Barbara.

BARBARA OLSHANSKY: Thank you for having me.

AMY GOODMAN: Your response to President Bush's address.

BARBARA OLSHANSKY: You know, there are several. The President’s speech came along with a series of documents: a Department of Defense directive, a new Army field manual that was revised, and this bill. If you put them all together, it says some very interesting things. First, there is the admission, like you said, of the existence of secret prisons, which we knew and they have categorically denied, all across Europe and all across the United States.

But this idea of the CIA program, that language that the President used, we know that that program is a codeword for the use of torture. There's just no doubt about it, because we know how badly people were tortured in Iraq, in Afghanistan and in Guantanamo, and we know that not just from detainees' testimony, but from the testimony of FBI officials, CIA officials. Lots of people have come forward. And the President then is asking the American public and Congress to approve a program of torture going forward.

And when he says the United States doesn't torture and I never authorize torture, that is a very interesting word play, because all of the government's documents, all of the White House documents, go to this issue of redefining torture in a way that we don't define it in the United States or in the world. And that definition says torture only occurs when someone’s at the risk of immediate full organ failure or death. So that's the word “torture” that the president is using. That's not our constitutional definition of torture. That's not the international definition of torture. And you know what? That's not the American people's definition of torture.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/07/1350230
 
ZAMB said:
They have an unknown number of secret prisons in different countries, but only 14 prisoners altogether??? I doubt it.
aye - its Bollocks with a capital B.

Interesting article in the Wahington Times:

The Bush administration yesterday cautioned countries with secret CIA prisons in their territory against disclosing the sites' existence, even as the European Parliament renewed its demand that its members come clean if they host such detention centers.

[...]

"The location of these prison camps must be made public," said German Socialist Wolfgang Kreissl-Doerfler, a member of a special European Parliament committee investigating the matter. "We need to know if there has been any complicity in illegal acts by governments of EU countries or states seeking EU membership."

The head of the committee, Swiss Sen. Dick Marty, said Mr. Bush's speech was "just one piece of the truth."

[...]

The State Department urged the countries that host CIA prisons to keep quiet, because the administration wants the practice to continue and "certain aspects" of it should not be discussed.

"There are just certain lines we have decided we are not going to cross," said department spokesman Sean McCormack.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20060908-120410-5912r.htm

What a great chance for the EU to put the boot in...
 
niksativa said:
aye - its Bollocks with a capital B.

The Times also reports that prisoners are thought to have been held in eastern Europe, northern Africa and Thailand. Also last week, a Jordanian general said that "tens of prisoners" had arrived in unmarked jets in Amman, and were then taken to the headquarters of the Jordanian intelligence service for questioning.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0912/dailyUpdate.html?s=mesdu

So it's not just Bollocks, but they don't care that the people know that it is! When are the citizens of the US going to start standing up for the freedom, justice etc. that they say that their country stands for? Perhaps, as this article also suggests, they just don't care enough to want to know - after all, it's not happening to anyone they know!!! Yet!!!

Though the administration has decided not to defend publicly the need for "coercive" interrogations, others have. Their argument is that the policy of abusive interrogations is not only acceptable but necessary to protect the United States. At the same time, polls on torture are notoriously sensitive to phrasing. It's the mixed results themselves, though, that may be telling. Americans appear to be ambivalent about the occasional need for torture. And with ambivalence, perhaps, comes a preference for not wanting to know.

The next exerpt from this article is hardly surprising, which, in itself is tragic. I thought this question had already been settled by the US Supreme Court, which found such courts illegal, but apparently legal opinions, even in the highest court in the land, count for very little in the current US climate.

The Associated Press reported last Friday that US Senate leaders have decided to back legislation that would allow the prosecution of terror detainees via military tribunals, despite the objections of several leading Republican senators, and the dissent of the military's top lawyers.
 
To recap then, the list includes:

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/conte.../050214fa_fact6
Quote:"The most common destinations for rendered suspects are
Egypt, Morocco, Syria, and Jordan

The story of a top secret document that has surfaced and implicated the US with these sites:
Romania, Poland, Ukraine, Kosovo, Macedonia and Bulgaria.
Quote:http://www.sundayherald.com/56171

and now add Afghanistan, Qatar, Thailand, the Indian island base of Diego Garcia to the list (Zamb's post and link).

I think your right about the inherent state of denial that exists - thats turning into a long list...
 
A NewSpeak phrase to watch out for:

G W Bush said:
And so the CIA used an alternative set of procedures. These procedures were designed to be safe, to comply with our laws, our Constitution, and our treaty obligations. [...]The procedures were tough, and they were safe, and lawful, and necessary.

BBC

Winston Smith would be proud...
 
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