Top 5 referendums you would ike to see

[tbaldwin]

Now that wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you and your pals are A) exaggerating and B) go out of your way to pick fights with me....not you, no, you're innocent. No one could ever accuse you of winding posters up or picking fights...baldwin? No, pure as the driven snow.

Prick.

So what are your 5 choices?

 

[kyser_soze]

Oh, be more imaginative, Kyser. There are a zillion ways humans can communicate, and these could be harnessed to organising life's needs, rather than lining the pockets of corporations.

No 'command economy' has ever been democratically run, except on a small scale, so there's no real precedent yet

You're approaching it arse about face tho - the mechanisms for this kind of demand already exist, it's industrial processes that need to be turned into variants of JIT delivery systems - for example, if I order a washing machine, the factory makes it specifically to order instead of manufacturing vast warehouses of potentiall unsellable units.

 

[Fez909]

• Abolition of the monarchy.
• Decriminalisation of all drugs.
• Abolition of nuclear weapons.
• Renationalisation of transport and energy.
• Proportional representation.

 

[nino_savatte]

So what are your 5 choices?

Did you ask butchersapron the same question? Where are his 5 choices? Untethered only had one choice, shouldn't you be squeezing a few more out of him/her?

 

[Spion]

You're approaching it arse about face tho - the mechanisms for this kind of demand already exist, it's industrial processes that need to be turned into variants of JIT delivery systems - for example, if I order a washing machine, the factory makes it specifically to order instead of manufacturing vast warehouses of potentiall unsellable units.

Am I? I'm thinking not just of individualised demand triggers but decision-making which asks the question, 'What do we as a society want to expend society's resources on?' Indicators of dividual demand would be a level of abstraction below that.

(I'm assuming the abolition of private property the large scale means of production in this scenario)

It's an interesting question - how would a democratically planned economy work in the digital age?

 

[butchersapron]

You're cryptic, bullyboy. It's funny but if you think I'm so wrong, why don't you offer a correction instead of picking a fight?

What is a "cultural import"? Is it the same as assimilating those practices that immigrants bring with them or do we actively seek to import cultural practices and artefacts from other lands?

You hardly ever answer questions, so get off your high horse, pal. You're the one who has the "special rules which are 1) Don't ever challenge me because I'm right; 2) Anything that you say is wrong; 3) I don't pick fights because I say I that I don't and 4) Do as I say and not as I do. The last one is rather apposite in your case: you're fond of telling others what they should do but you ignore the advice that you give others. Weird.

Jesus christ. Nino, just admit that in your haste to have a pop at untethered you got youtrself into a bit of a muddle and made a rather daft claim. Easy enough to do if your argument is simply posting the opposite of whoever you're arguing with. Offer a corrective? That's exactly what i intended to do but wanted to give you the chance to clarify what you meant first so gave you the opportunity to do so. Instead you went off your nut again.

So what you're now saying is that cultural practices have been imported and then assimilated to this country through direct immigration. I'd go further and say that capital has directly tried to import various cultures (or the appearance of other cultures) in order to help establish a tactic of differentiated consumer marketing, a tactic that then feeds back into material life and becomes part of a pre-existing culture. So yes, there have been cultural imports - as you now seem to belatedly recognise.

 

[nino_savatte]

Jesus christ. Nino, just admit that in your haste to have a pop at untethered you got youtrself into a bit of a muddle and made a rather daft claim. Easy enough to do if your argument is simply posting the opposite of whoever you're arguing with. Offer a corrective? That's exactly what i intended to do but wanted to give you the chance to clarify what you meant first so gave you the opportunity to do so. Instead you went off your nut again.

So what you're now saying is that cultural practices have been imported and then assimilated to this country through direct immigration. I'd go further and say that capital has directly tried to import various cultures (or the appearance of other cultures) in order to help establish a tactic of differentiated consumer marketing, a tactic that then feeds back into material life and becomes part of a pre-existing culture. So yes, there have been cultural imports - as you now seem to belatedly recognise.

Jesus Christ, butch, just admit to wanting a fight and leave it at that. Why must you be such a fucking belligerent arsehole? What is your problem?

Please provide an example of "imported culture" rather than a cultural product. If you would be so kind.

For an anarchist, you're rather fond of taking Christ's name in vain.

 

[kyser_soze]

Am I? I'm thinking not just of individualised demand triggers but decision-making which asks the question, 'What do we as a society want to expend society's resources on?' Indicators of dividual demand would be a level of abstraction below that.

(I'm assuming the abolition of private property the large scale means of production in this scenario)

It's an interesting question - how would a democratically planned economy work in the digital age?

You'd end up with an appalling, unmanageable mess - 'we as a society' asked that question today would reply laptops, widescreen TVs, cars and the rest of the litany of consumer goods - the key problem the Russians has was people got pissed off waiting years for products that when they got them were shite. Asking what a whole society wants isn't going to get you a good answer - you need to rephrase the question.

 

[nino_savatte]

So what you're now saying is that cultural practices have been imported and then assimilated

I never said anything of the sort. Once again, you prove that you don't read my posts properly or read things into them that aren't there.

Provide one example where this importation has happened.

 

[butchersapron]

Jesus Christ, butch, just admit to wanting a fight and leave it at that. Why must you be such a fucking belligerent arsehole? What is your problem?

Please provide an example of "imported culture" rather than a cultural product. If you would be so kind.

For an anarchist, you're rather fond of taking Christ's name in vain.

Don't be sneaky nino, you know full well that what you actually said was that "There aren't any cultural imports" - and that i talked about 'cultural practices'.

Yoi think anarchists are all religious then and so shouldn't take the lords name in vain?

 

[butchersapron]

I never said anything of the sort. Once again, you prove that you don't read my posts properly or read things into them that aren't there.

Provide one example where this importation has happened.

You're quite clealy looking to retreat from your daft assertion that 'there are no cultural imports' in the below paragrpah by sneaking in immigration as a vehicle of the import of cultural practices and differentiating this from 'cultural imports'. It's transparent backsliding.

What is a "cultural import"? Is it the same as assimilating those practices that immigrants bring with them or do we actively seek to import cultural practices and artefacts from other lands?

Nino, i don't think i'll be bothering with you on this thread much more frankly. I've made my point - you say there are no cultural imports, i point out that there self-evidently are.

 

[kyser_soze]

Spion - shall we take this to another thread, cos I think it could be an interesting thought fox...

 

[Spion]

Spion - shall we take this to another thread, cos I think it could be an interesting thought fox...

I like the sound of one of those

Yes, I'm game for another thread on it, but busy right now

 

[nino_savatte]

Don't be sneaky nino, you know full well that what you actually said was that "There aren't any cultural imports" - and that i talked about 'cultural practices'.

Yoi think anarchists are all religious then and so shouldn't take the lords name in vain?

Who are you calling "sneaky"? That's rich coming from a returning poster who used the name "torres".

You aren't amking any sense here

Yoi think anarchists are all religious

Lay off the sauce, mate.

 

[_angel_]

I didn't.

British goods wouldn't be in competition with foreign goods and British workers wouldn't be in competition with foreign workers.

Many manufactured goods might be more expensive than at present, but there are plenty of reasons why that would be a good thing.

Would this extend to imported foods? Because we'd be stuffed without sugar, spices, oranges, bananas etc etc. Never mind our capacity to feed ourselves is nowhere near high enough.

 

[nino_savatte]

You're quite clealy looking to retreat from your daft assertion that 'there are no cultural imports' in the below paragrpah by sneaking in immigration as a vehicle of the import of cultural practices and differentiating this from 'cultural imports'. It's transparent backsliding.

What is a "cultural import"? Is it the same as assimilating those practices that immigrants bring with them or do we actively seek to import cultural practices and artefacts from other lands?

Nino, i don't think i'll be bothering with you on this thread much more frankly. I've made my point - you say there are no cultural imports, i point out that there self-evidently are.

My, you're an arrogant cunt - aren't you? Too full of yourself by half and always quick to give someone a hard time if they don't follow your rules. You're a bully, a pest and a pain in the arse...like all Internet hardmen.

You've pointed out nothing, butch. It's all in your fevered imagination.

 

[nino_savatte]

You're quite clealy looking to retreat from your daft assertion

Only in your imagination, friend.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Please provide an example of "imported culture" rather than a cultural product. If you would be so kind.

I would point out that the attempt to seperate cultural practices from cultural products isn't very sensible since the cultural value of the products (i.e. their cultural characteristics) are only experienced/evidenced as they are consumed/displayed/used. However, given my past experience, I don't think I'll bother...I'll go and wash the kitchen floor instead.

Louis MacNeice

 

[kyser_soze]

Because we'd be stuffed without sugar, spices, oranges, bananas etc etc

No we wouldn't - we managed without them for a couple of millenia before they were regular items on the British menu.

Altho self-sustainability is an issue, for sho.

 

[untethered]

No we wouldn't - we managed without them for a couple of millenia before they were regular items on the British menu.

Altho self-sustainability is an issue, for sho.

Yes, we have no bananas. We managed in the war under hostile conditions. We can manage again.

Dig for victory!

 

[nino_savatte]

I'll go and wash the kitchen floor instead.

Louis MacNeice

You do that, pal.

 

[_angel_]

No we wouldn't - we managed without them for a couple of millenia before they were regular items on the British menu.

Altho self-sustainability is an issue, for sho.

You want to manage without sugar and imported fruits?? We've had sugar/ tea/ coffee/ chocolate here for hundreds of years, only for ages they were confined to the richest in society.

Also do we really want to do without wine? I for one vote: no!!!

eta: Even the humble potato is an import.

Oh and we'd have to ban smoking tobacco never mind owt stronger straight away (Wouldn't have too much issue with that though)

 

[untethered]

You want to manage without sugar and imported fruits?? We've had sugar/ tea/ coffee/ chocolate here for hundreds of years, only for ages they were confined to the richest in society.

Sugar beet growing in Yorkshire.

 

[kyser_soze]

No I don't, but then I don't want a world without air travel either, but it might happen - at least for anyone other than the super-rich - in the next 50 years.

And we can manage perfectly well on beer.

 

[_angel_]

Tbh if we banned tea I think there'd be a revolution right there and then!!! Never mind the rest of it

 

[_angel_]

Then there's the issue of clothing?? I sure as hell don't want to only go around in woollens/ animal skins.

 

[Demosthenes]

can you name me any countries as isolated as you propose where its people are satisfied with the provision of goods? The market works globally.

I'm all for placing tight restictions on the market, but I'd want it ultimately abolished and have the economy moving to being entirely democratically planned - it's the only alternative to the market

But that really is the worst idea ever, you just end up with the government paying loads of money to incompetent planners, who get it wrong the whole time. I reckon. Unless you've got some sophisticated idea of how to plan the economy democratically. (Give everyone free money/currency maybe)?

Actually, seeing your later posts, maybe it is sort of a good idea.

I quite like the idea of trying to twiddle the tax system to benefit people whose work seems to benefit society. But maybe that doesn't really mean anyting.

And I'd like to see referendums on the alliance with America, on limiting the rights of landlords, on ending state enforcement of compulsory education, on legalisation of some or all drugs, and of course on having people fight to the death on live tV for the public's entertainment and to develop the gambling economy.

 

[tbaldwin]

As someone who would like to see more referendums to bring about a more direct democratic system, I wonder what are the issues most people would like to see to go onto a referendum.

Here are my top five:

1. Renationalisation of public trasport
2. Abolition of the monarchy
3. Rise in income tax for people earning over £50000 a year
4. Elected judiciary
5. Maximum wage in the public and voluntary sector

Also like to see one on a new property tax. One on migration. One on a National Labour scheme...and one on capital punishment...

 

[becky p]

But that really is the worst idea ever, you just end up with the government paying loads of money to incompetent planners, who get it wrong the whole time. I reckon. Unless you've got some sophisticated idea of how to plan the economy democratically. (Give everyone free money/currency maybe)?

Actually, seeing your later posts, maybe it is sort of a good idea.

I quite like the idea of trying to twiddle the tax system to benefit people whose work seems to benefit society. But maybe that doesn't really mean anyting.

And I'd like to see referendums on the alliance with America, on limiting the rights of landlords, on ending state enforcement of compulsory education, on legalisation of some or all drugs, and of course on having people fight to the death on live tV for the public's entertainment and to develop the gambling economy.

Foxhunting.
Increasing Tax on Aviation.
Increasing sentences on wreckless drivers, who kill.
Banning Big Brother.
And Public Floggings for Rapists.

 

[tbaldwin]

• Abolition of the monarchy.
• Decriminalisation of all drugs.
• Abolition of nuclear weapons.
• Renationalisation of transport and energy.
• Proportional representation.

I wonder how the votes of urban contributors would differ from the general public on issues like that.

Id love to see the monarchy abolished, but not sure most people would?
Not sure about drugs or Nuclear weapons either.
Renationalisation i think most people would vote for ( hopefully) and PR.

I really like the UR thread on how marginalised the left is.. I reckon part of the solution might be calling for more not less democracy and practicing it as well....