Tony Blair wins million-dollar prize for global leadership

[nino_savatte]

Well we haven't agreed upon (or tried to agree upon) a definition of statesman so nobody knows where the goalposts are. The citation refers to "his exceptional leadership and steadfast determination in helping to engineer agreements and forge lasting solutions to areas in conflict". I don't think any of that applies to Berlusconi or Netanyahu, and I don't think the proponents were serious.

On the other hand, the citation also says of Tony Blair that "throughout his career, Tony Blair has acted on the basis of what he believes to be right, a hallmark of leadership."

All you are doing here is apologising. Are you a hagiographer in your spare time too? "We" didn't agree on anything. However you offered a set of parameters for what a statesmen should conform to and I simply asked if, according to "your rules", would Bibi not qualify?

The parameters that you have set only serve to flatter your idol.

I find this laughable.

On the other hand, the citation also says of Tony Blair that "throughout his career, Tony Blair has acted on the basis of what he believes to be right, a hallmark of leadership."

So did you believe the 45 minute claim? Did you believe Blair when he said that Saddam Hussein had a massive arsenal of WMDs?

 

[nino_savatte]

I've just said we haven't agreed rules. But I will suggest that one definition of a statesman might be someone whose power extends to influence leaders of other nations and derives from more than wealth and military force. All Binyamin Netanyahu will have to offer is military power.

On the other hand. If he, as the acknowledged hawk, were to shift his position and deliver a lasting accommodation with the Arabs, that would be evidence that he was. This is what happened with F.W. de Klerk. But that hasn't happened yet.

I think there are a lot of folk who would disagree with you about Bibi. You still haven't managed to produce a convincing argument.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Like I said, you have remarkably thin skin, particularly if you think that I have "insulted" you. Grow up ffs.

In the real world in which I live, saying this -

You're either blind, stupid or both. Try using your eyes instead of making knobheaded remarks...

- of someone else would be thought insulting. Maybe you think of it as motivational coaching.

 

[nino_savatte]

In the real world in which I live, saying this -

- of someone else would be thought insulting. Maybe you think of it as motivational coaching.

"Real world"? Don't make me laugh. It's a world where you make all the rules...that's hardly "real", pal.

Accusing me of "insulting" you is a desperate avoidance tactic. Try again and try harder.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I think there are a lot of folk who would disagree with you about Bibi. You still haven't managed to produce a convincing argument.

You haven't managed to produce an argument of any kind. What arguments could be made to describe Netanhyahu as a statesman?

 

[nino_savatte]

I think there are a lot of folk who would disagree with you about Bibi. You still haven't managed to produce a convincing argument.

So no reply to this, then? Quelle surprise.

 

[nino_savatte]

You haven't managed to produce an argument of any kind. What arguments could be made to describe Netanhyahu as a statesman?

The very same argument that you employed to defend Blair's title of statesman. By that very definition, Bibi is a "statesman".

 

[Fullyplumped]

"Real world"? Don't make me laugh. It's a world where you make all the rules...that's hardly "real", pal. Accusing me of "insulting" you is a desperate avoidance tactic. Try again and try harder.

I haven't made up any rules and your attitude is so aggressive that you really oughtn't to go thinking I'm your pal.

 

[nino_savatte]

I haven't made up any rules and your attitude is so aggressive that you really oughtn't to go thinking I'm your pal.

Fuck me, your imagination is working overtime.

 

[nino_savatte]

How am I being "aggressive", Fullyplumped?

 

[Fullyplumped]

The very same argument that you employed to defend Blair's title of statesman. By that very definition, Bibi is a "statesman".

Would you care to elaborate? You have said that his behaviour conforms to the definition I suggested in relation to Tony Blair. In what ways? Can you suggest examples that would illustrate your point?

 

[nino_savatte]

Well, we can all have a view. What's yours?

If I had a fiver for every time I saw someone use this as a rebuttal, I'd be a rich man. It's pretty weak stuff and usually shows that the person uttering it, has nothing much to offer.

 

[nino_savatte]

Would you care to elaborate? You have said that his behaviour conforms to the definition I suggested in relation to Tony Blair. In what ways? Can you suggest examples that would illustrate your point?

What has "behaviour" got to do with anything? Blair lied to the Commons and that, presumably, is a mark of his statesmanship? He works in the interests of a small select group of people and takes money from JP Morgan. Don't make me laugh.

 

[Fullyplumped]

How am I being "aggressive", Fullyplumped?

I think I see the problem here. You may have been socialised in such an environment that to you this way of engaging with people, describing them routinely as "blind", "stupid" and "knobheaded" is thought acceptable and normal.

 

[Fullyplumped]

If I had a fiver for every time I saw someone use this as a rebuttal, I'd be a rich man. It's pretty weak stuff and usually shows that the person uttering it, has nothing much to offer.

It's not a rebuttal. I want to know what you think.

 

[nino_savatte]

I think I see the problem here. You may have been socialised in such an environment that to you this way of engaging with people, describing them routinely as "blind", "stupid" and "knobheaded" is thought acceptable and normal.

Do fuck off with your tiresome faux expressions of wounded pride.

You seem to have socialised in an environment where deference is preferable to accountability; or where people ask no questions of those who have been charged with leadership roles. It's much easier to regard things superficially, isn't it? Such is the postmodern attitude towards everything political.

 

[nino_savatte]

It's not a rebuttal. I want to know what you think.

It is and it's pretty poor.

 

[Fullyplumped]

What has "behaviour" got to do with anything? Blair lied to the Commons and that, presumably, is a mark of his statesmanship? He works in the interests of a small select group of people and takes money from JP Morgan. Don't make me laugh.

You said that you thought the argument could be made that Mr Netanyahu could be described as a statesman. I would be interested in any examples you could give of him exhibiting statesmanlike behaviour.

 

[Fullyplumped]

It is and it's pretty poor.

What do you think?

 

[fela fan]

Well we haven't agreed upon (or tried to agree upon) a definition of statesman so nobody knows where the goalposts are. The citation refers to "his exceptional leadership and steadfast determination in helping to engineer agreements and forge lasting solutions to areas in conflict". I don't think any of that applies to Berlusconi or Netanyahu, and I don't think the proponents were serious.

On the other hand, the citation also says of Tony Blair that "throughout his career, Tony Blair has acted on the basis of what he believes to be right, a hallmark of leadership."

Personally, hearing the news that blair has won a prize for being an outstanding statesman is a clear indication of the bankruptcy of world leadership. The man in his time as 'leader' of the UK was a blatant liar and took decisions that led to the deaths of thousands of the world's citizens. Heh, great fucking leadership that is!

He also knew what a murderer he was when he told the world that his 'christian conscience' was clear. Funny how he never claimed his conscience was clear.

And the damage he has done to Britain will only be calculated a few years from now. He has helped advanced the state-is-your-nanny no end.

This award is almost as bad as when kissinger won the nobel peace prize.

Just amazing what these killers get up to and how they then win global awards for their crimes.

 

[nino_savatte]

You said that you thought the argument could be made that Mr Netanyahu could be described as a statesman. I would be interested in any examples you could give of him exhibiting statesmanlike behaviour.

Conversely, you have offered nothing by way of a convincing argument that suggests that Blair is a much of a statesman either. I simply applied your parameters to Bibi et voila!

 

[Fullyplumped]

Do fuck off with your tiresome faux expressions of wounded pride.

You seem to have socialised in an environment where deference is preferable to accountability; or where people ask no questions of those who have been charged with leadership roles. It's much easier to regard things superficially, isn't it? Such is the postmodern attitude towards everything political.

You must get punched in the face a lot in the real world!

 

[Fullyplumped]

I simply applied your parameters to Bibi et voila!

You certainly did. well done.

 

[nino_savatte]

You must get punched in the face a lot in the real world!

And you must get kicked in the head a lot in the real world...your replies tend to reflect this rather well.

 

[nino_savatte]

You certainly did. well done.

Which rather contradicts this from you.

You said that you thought the argument could be made that Mr Netanyahu could be described as a statesman. I would be interested in any examples you could give of him exhibiting statesmanlike behaviour.

I never made the argument, I simply applied your 'argument' to Bibi.

This is just like being savaged by a dead cat.

 

[audiotech]

On the other hand, the citation also says of Tony Blair that "throughout his career, Tony Blair has acted on the basis of what he believes to be right, a hallmark of leadership."

Believing yourself to be right all the time is the hallmark of a messianic tosser.

 

[Fullyplumped]

This is just like being savaged by a dead cat.

You seem to expect, even want, to be savaged in some way, and it must be awfully disappointing to come across someone who is interested only in having a grown up conversation.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Believing yourself to be right all the time is the hallmark of a messianic tosser.

That is true, but that isn't exactly the same as what the citation attributes to him.

 

[audiotech]

That is true, but that isn't exactly the same as what the citation attributes to him.

sure?

throughout his career, Tony Blair has acted on the basis of what he believes to be right

 

[nino_savatte]

You seem to expect, even want, to be savaged in some way, and it must be awfully disappointing to come across someone who is interested only in having a grown up conversation.

You talk shite.