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Tony Blair Pulls the Plug on Kyoto at Clinton Summit

After all, he's talked about it a lot, but his actions always put corporations ahead of humans. So it's hardly unfair to promote pbman's version here in the UK, where it'll help to increase the damage Blair has already taken recently.
 
Bernie Gunther said:
After all, he's talked about it a lot, but his actions always put corporations ahead of humans. So it's hardly unfair to promote pbman's version here in the UK, where it'll help to increase the damage Blair has already taken recently.

Give me a phone call if you or anyone else can meet their goals. :rolleyes:

If you can't, we were right, not to sign it.

End of story.

And quit blathering about corportaions, thats were most people get their jobs.

If you hammer them, you are putting millions of your friends and family out of work.
 
FridgeMagnet said:
Indeed! The bastard denies global warming and wants to destroy the ozone layer with his bare hands!

Cheers, pbman!

Let us who are going to be here in the future worry about it.
 
Trouble is tech central station is such an obviously dodgy and unreliable source. Have you got anything more believable pbman? I think we could use it. I'm liking this idea a lot, so a more plausible looking source would be really very helpful in damaging Blair and maybe pushing him that tiny bit closer to being scragged by his own party as a US stooge.
 
It's official, pbman has proclaimed it: anyone who supports Kyoto is a 'crackhead'.

Ah, the fine art of political debate is clearly alive and kicking.

Matt
 
Bernie Gunther said:
Trouble is tech central station is such an obviously dodgy and unreliable source. Have you got anything more believable pbman? I think we could use it. I'm liking this idea a lot, so a more plausible looking source would be really very helpful in damaging Blair and maybe pushing him that tiny bit closer to being scragged by his own party as a US stooge.

I linked you to wikpidia.

go back a page.
 
pbman said:
Since your so familer with your future i don't have to post it. :D
Whyever not? You post it in support of every other wild swing you've taken in the direction opposite to sense.
 
chooch said:
Whyever not? You post it in support of every other wild swing you've taken in the direction opposite to sense.

Its a good artical, he doesn't pull any punchs.

And their was that one i posted first that you guys all loved when he slated us...........

Then when i posted an artical later when he slated you guys you all cired and complaid.

I still laugh thinking about it.
 
question is which particular technological solutions are they waiting for, and how exactly to they propose to implement them when they materialise. Being as solar thermal, solar pv, wind, biodiesel, biofuel generators etc. etc. are all fully working tried and tested technological solutions to cutting co2, along with proper insulation energy saving lightbulbs. This government is just way too incompetent to actually use the technology that exists, I see no reason to expect it to be any better when the magic technological solution materialises.

The only technological solution I can see that they're talking about is nuclear, which when combined with their other pet technological solution of hydrogen fuel cells to power cars means we're potentially talking about a whole shitload of new nuclear plants heading our way.

I can virtually guarantee that they'll use the failure of renewables to increase fast enough over the last 20 years as justification for this new nuclear programme, completely ignoring the fact that this failure has been caused by their incompetence. :mad:
 
Matt S said:
It's official, pbman has proclaimed it: anyone who supports Kyoto is a 'crackhead'.

I didn't say the goals of koyoto, i said kyoto itself.

It cost tos of money and jobs, and does asolutly nothing to cut co2.

Thats crackhead territory.

Even if you belive in the unproven myth of global warming you should at least support things that actualy cut down on co2.
 
free spirit said:
question is which particular technological solutions are they waiting for, and how exactly to they propose to implement them when they materialise. Being as solar thermal, solar pv, wind, biodiesel, biofuel generators etc. etc. are all fully working tried and tested technological solutions to cutting co2, along with proper insulation energy saving lightbulbs. This government is just way too incompetent to actually use the technology that exists, I see no reason to expect it to be any better when the magic technological solution materialises.

:

You guys should ask him instead of just being glad you havn't heard how he's planing to dump international global treatys.

But in order to ask him you would have to know this................

But you are right about one thing gov'ts are incompetant and wasfull or resorces........

That one of the main reasons i'm a repubican, the damn go'vt has never found a problem tehy can't make worse.

Kyoto's a good example, since its worthless to spend a shitload of money gettting no results, that money should have been spent researthing such technological solutions.

The only technological solution I can see that they're talking about is nuclear, which when combined with their other pet technological solution of hydrogen fuel cells to power cars means we're potentially talking about a whole shitload of new nuclear plants heading our way.

Probalby so their are no free lunches in the world.

Just make up your mind do you want a naturula substance like co2 in the air, or nuclular waste in storage somewere, were it is contained.

I can virtually guarantee that they'll use the failure of renewables to increase fast enough over the last 20 years as justification for this new nuclear programme, completely ignoring the fact that this failure has been caused by their incompetence.

They are gov't.

Its a given that they are going to be incompitant.

You have to factor that in at all times.
 
The Indy has an interesting lead story today.
The growing violence of storms such as Katrina, which wrecked New Orleans, and Rita, now threatening Texas, is very probably caused by climate change, said Sir John Lawton, chairman of the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution. Hurricanes were getting more intense, just as computer models predicted they would, because of the rising temperature of the sea, he said. "The increased intensity of these kinds of extreme storms is very likely to be due to global warming."

In a series of outspoken comments - a thinly veiled attack on the Bush administration, Sir John hit out at neoconservatives in the US who still deny the reality of climate change.

Referring to the arrival of Hurricane Rita he said: "If this makes the climate loonies in the States realise we've got a problem, some good will come out of a truly awful situation."
source
 
peebs - as much as I hate Blair, I'm gonn aplay devil's advocate here. Your original post only contains a couple of lines of quotes from Blair - the rest is conjecture and supposition from the author.

Any chance you have a link to the actual speech transcript, in full?
 
pbman said:
I always find it funny when people prove themselves hypocrtits.

CAuse it is. :cool:

So you're admitting you spend a lot of time laughing at yourself?

That's very open and honest of you.

Acknowledging you have a problem is the first step to dealing with it.
 
Blair has no real power on the world stage but he likes to posture alot. In terms of foreign affairs - he doesn't fart without getting on the hotline to Washington first -to check that he had taken the right position when doing so.
 
pbman said:
He just admited it was a complety unworkable and unrealistic piece of shit treaty and thats all you have to say?

Aye because Bush has his hand up Blair's backside, a la glove puppet mode.
 
ViolentPanda said:
So you're admitting you spend a lot of time laughing at yourself?

That's very open and honest of you.

Acknowledging you have a problem is the first step to dealing with it.

There are a range of anti-psychotic drugs that may help with his condition. But I don't think he'll seek help...we'll witness his disintegration here on Urban...untreated...unloved.....LOL!!!!!! :D
 
pbman said:
lol Its low rent propganda, when your press or your gov't doesn't tell you he said such thing.

Normaly its big news when some one flip flops like this.

Yeah you'd have thought our Liberal Commie press would have been all over those comments like a rash. So what have we learned today Peebs?
 
pbman said:
Its a totaly flip flop from him tryingto get us to sign the rediculaes pice of shit, to now admiting its unrealistic and unworkable......

If you can't see that, denial of reality is more than a pillare of the left, its your intire foundation...........

Anyways you think this has anything to do with you guys loosing jobs to china, and still not making your goals?

WTF ths point of lossing all those jobs anyways, they polute even more?


Denail of reality - one word, Iraq.

Dont be throwing stones now neighbour.
 
Pbmans post is all bullshit.

First, he's not scrapping Kyoto, he's talking about what to do after Kyoto.
Secondly, he's poining out the challenges we face, not reasons for not doing it. When he says 'no-one wants to stiflle growth' he means just that, not, 'so we wont do anything'.

The relevant part is:
MR. BLAIR: I think that – three points I would like to make here. The first is that I think,
whether for reasons to do with concern over global warming or for reasons to do with concern over
energy security and supplies, I think this issue is coming together in an important way. It’s there now on
the agenda and I’m pleased about that. I think it’s very important.
The second thing, though, is that I think – and I would say probably I’m changing my thinking
about this in the past two or three years. I think if we are going to get action on this, we have got to start
from the brutal honesty about the politics of how we deal with it. The truth is no country is going to cut
its growth or consumption substantially in the light of a long-term environmental problem. What
countries are prepared to do is to try to work together cooperatively to deal with this problem in a way
that allows us to develop the science and technology in a beneficial way.
Now, I don’t think all of the answers lie in just – in developing the science and technology, but I
do think there is no way we are going to tackle this problem unless we develop the science and
technology capable of doing it.
And that really brings me to the third point, which is I think the point that you were really raising,
which is, well, how do you create the forces that drive people then to develop the science and technology?
How do you create the markets and the research and the development of this technology so that we can
shorten the timeline so that we’re not waiting 25 or 30 years to develop fuel cell technology, so that, for
example, in nuclear fusion, which is now a major issue as well we are developing the technology, so that
you can bring those costs of wind power and solar power down?
How do you do that? And I think that is the issue that the international community needs to
address because we tried at Gleneagles to try and – some people have signed Kyoto, some people haven’t
signed Kyoto, right. That is a disagreement. It’s there. It’s not going to be resolved. But how do we
move forward and ensure that post-Kyoto we do try to get agreement? I think that can only be done by
the major players in this coming together and finding a way for pulling their resources, their information,
their science and technology in order to find the ways of allowing us to grow sustainably?
And the meeting that will take place on the 1st of November, which is effectively the G-8 of the
India, China, Brazil, South Africa, and Mexico. That is going to allow us, I hope, not to negotiate
international treaties, but to allow us to start beginning the necessary dialogue as to how we are going to
shorten these timelines for developing the science and technology and how we are going to ensure that
countries like China and India, as they grow – and they will grow.
And they are not going to – they are not going to find it satisfactory for us in the developed world
to turn around and say, look, we have had our growth. You have now got yours so we want you to do it
sustainably even if we haven’t. So they aren’t going to demand, in my view, some process that allows us
to share the technology and transfer so that we can benefit collectively for the work that needs to be done.
And the real issue I think – because to be honest, I don’t think people are going, at least in the
short term, going to start negotiating another major treaty like Kyoto. The real issue is how do we put
these incentives in the system so that the private sector, as well as the public sector says, this is the
direction policy is going to go, so let’s start getting behind this. So that is what – I think it’s a key issue.

So it's not our media that's biased, it's (and I know you're in for a shock) talk radio. But thanks for keeping me in the loop, I would have missed this otherwise.

All England, all the time.
 
For the benefit of pbman

pbman said:
Even if you belive in the unproven myth of global warming you should at least support things that actualy cut down on co2.
Christ, he doesn't even make sense! Did he mean to say, "Even if you don't believe in the unproven myth of global warming..."? And where does this guy get his idea that we don't support measures which cut down CO2 emissions, technological or otherwise?

:confused:
 
parallelepipete said:
Christ, he doesn't even make sense! Did he mean to say, "Even if you don't believe in the unproven myth of global warming..."? And where does this guy get his idea that we don't support measures which cut down CO2 emissions, technological or otherwise?

:confused:

A parallel universe, obviously.
 
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