Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by Cloo, May 27, 2018.

  1. belboid

    belboid TUC Off Your Knees

    Dom Traynor and Proper Tidy like this.
  2. Proper Tidy

    Proper Tidy Arsed

    Well fuck me, learn something new
     
  3. The39thStep

    The39thStep Well-Known Member

    It would be interesting to find out how the CP justified its juggling act between its national position and the 43 group.
     
  4. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

  5. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Chapter one of British Communism and the Politics of Race goes into this - if i remember right it was as simple as glorifying a fake pic of cable street as the key to building a mass movement concerned not just with 'race', but then v diff on the local level - much as Joe Jacobs recounts happening in the 30s in the lead up to Cable street.
     
  6. Proper Tidy

    Proper Tidy Arsed

    Great stuff, haven't read this one yet
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  7. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Sadly, it's pretty shit - it's an explicitly 'intersectionalist' look at this history and reads a bit like a woke-whig.
     
    Proper Tidy and Pickman's model like this.
  8. The39thStep

    The39thStep Well-Known Member

    Isnt the author some sort of Trot?
     
  9. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    He's an academic in australia who seems very focused on the CPGB rather than trotskysism - has a book on the History of No Platform in the NUS/CPGB/etc coming out - or was supposed to have been coming out for some time. Doesn't look to have ever been active in any orgs.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  10. Proper Tidy

    Proper Tidy Arsed

    His blog is often good value, the only book of his I read was against the grain which was ok (but really just a collection of essays by different people and no way I'd have paid the excessive hardback price of it)
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  11. The39thStep

    The39thStep Well-Known Member

    Sorry got him confused with Ewan Gibbs. Yes I contributed something to his book on No Platform when he put a call out but god knows if he'll use it.
     
    M Testa, tim and Pickman's model like this.
  12. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    Some of the people calling themselves anti-fascists currently, are of similar politics to the pissants who've spent decades condemning anti-fascists for violence. This is merely a pose for them.
    I got roped into addressing an Extinction Rebellion meeting - about 60 people present - recently. The evening's subject was "non-violent direct action". I asked how many had been on a protest where the police had got a bit lairy, and half a dozen hands went up. I asked how many would fight back if the police came in batons swinging. No hands went up. My reply to this was "and that's why you won't get your demands met - you still believe that the Gandhi route will work, in this time and this place. When the state gets fed up treating you with kid gloves, they'll break your heads, and you'll sit there and take it, and let yourselves be beaten and arrested". I find it hard to comprehend just how strategically bereft XR are. They have good tactics, but their strategy is so narrow that it's easy to derail. My point here is that XR members tend to call themselves anti-fascist too, but seem to wage "struggle" purely on the verbal level.
     
  13. Red Sky

    Red Sky It was like that when I got here.

    Have you come across XR referring to themselves as "anti fascists"? .

    My experience of them is that that struggle hasn't even registered with them. For most this is the first political thing they've ever done.
     
    tim, ddraig and Magnus McGinty like this.
  14. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    Not sure you were actually addressing my point which was more we should be drawing people in who are up for fighting fascists but don’t see themselves as communists and (gasp) may identify more with national identity over class, rather than working with every Tom, Dick and Hippy who are vaguely in the sphere.
     
    The39thStep likes this.
  15. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    Some. Mostly the older ones, but even then you question what they mean, and it boils down to "I've been on HnH and UAF marches". The

    I believe it has registered, but as some sort of idealised "march from A to B to stop fascism" crap.
     
  16. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    My point is that sadly the most politically-active group at the mo is a bunch of people who have got little clue. People who I'll work with on certain things, but who I wouldn't want beside me in physical force direct action because they think you can "work with" the state.

    Anti-fascism doesn't draw that many people in, even when it would benefit them, for the same reasons it never has: Many people abhor violence even as a last resort (foolishly, IMO); many people avoid confrontation; many people are atomised from ideas of collective action, and the benefits to their community. Lastly, many people suffer from the popular delusion that "someone else will fight the fight for me".

    As for national identity over class, I worked with many anti-Nazi skins in the '80s. Some people who lionise their British identity are fine, because they're clued up enough to understand that the nation is its people - all of them, not just the ones that sunburn easily. The people you want will rally to the cause when (not if) the time comes, just like they always have, but what you won't get is a movement in the way the term is currently understood. Movements can be suborned by wasters like the SWP, and members lose sight of their goals. Collective action through loose networks, on an as-needed basis has always worked better.
    And you know what? Most of those who'll take up the fight will be working class. Why? Because we have the lived experience to know what's necessary, and the will to do it unmediated by middle class ideas about correct behaviour. That's why I mentioned XR and their narrowly-defined behaviours - because they're thoroughly m/c, and will founder on those behaviours, regardless of the righteousness of their aims.

    TLDR: Political purity is bollocks,
     
  17. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

  18. M Testa

    M Testa Well-Known Member

    i think leftists call themselves anti-fascist as fascism is opposed to their own beliefs but are really confusing it with being anti-racist, a position rather than an active role in opposing the far right culturally, in media, in the community, on physical resistance etc.
    we are all fundamentally anti-racist but anti-fascism, for me, is contributing actively in whatever form or capacity you feel you can do.
     
    Rutita1 likes this.
  19. Red Sky

    Red Sky It was like that when I got here.

    XR is definitely not about "physical force direct action" nor does it pretend to be.

    It's a bizarre and contradictory movement, currently quite middle class but not exclusively. It is however pretty much the only movement tackling the most important issue of our times.
     
    Magnus McGinty likes this.
  20. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    It’ll soon grow in popularity. And politics. In a decade or two.
     
  21. Red Sky

    Red Sky It was like that when I got here.

    I think the point is we don't have a decade, let alone two.
     
  22. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    Oh goody. It’ll happen sooner then.
     
  23. Red Sky

    Red Sky It was like that when I got here.

    Armageddon?
     
  24. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    It’s going to start adding pressure to various parts of ‘the system’ from here on in.
    I reckon the ruling class will start culling us to correct it rather than give up the system so it’ll be interesting given they need us for it to work.
     
  25. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    Check mate. Without us doing anything. Which is helpful presently.
     
  26. sim667

    sim667 Licking windows on the 303 bus.

    Anyone know what his court case in September is over?
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  27. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    attacking a pensioner's fist?
     
  28. sim667

    sim667 Licking windows on the 303 bus.

    Apparently tommy robinson could face a further custodial sentence, so I doubt its a to do with a pensioner, thats normally dealt with by the prison warden isn't it?
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  29. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    i had a quick search but couldn't dig anything out

    Mr.Bishie jimmer
    can you shed any light on what tommy robinson might be up for in sept?
     
    jimmer likes this.
  30. jimmer

    jimmer libcom.org

    The police are applying for him to be given a football banning order, presumably because he keeps getting into fights at Luton and England games.
     

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