To send my kids to private school or not?

[bouncer_the_dog]

I watched a Channel 4 show with the 'teacher of the year' examining private schools. He basically slated them. As someone who went to was privately educated it irritated me greatly. I did agree with several of his points which is that they have a 'hothouse flower' environment for exam results, and that it is just as possible to have a bad private school as it is to have a bad state school.

My main problem was that the guy making the show admitted he had never even been inside a private school, yet he was passing judgement on them. You do get a good education. And I think you can gain as much social awareness as the next person. In my experience the state school kids can be equally guilty of inverted snobbery when you get to University. It was certainly a surprise to me to see how totally class obsessed this country really is, when I hadn't even thought about it before hand.

I think that it is possible to not get bogged down in the social issues about whether its right or wrong better or worse? I think it comes down to local schools, and the kids.

My school was no utopian paradise, and more of a Dickensian nightmare in the GCSE years and a stuffy Gentleman’s Club in the sixth form. And I'll never know whether I would be a better person if I had gone to the local comp. The one I would of gone to was pretty good at the time, in terms of results, although subsequently its gone downhill big-time.

Anyway the point is its difficult not to take it personally when you read stuff that says 'all private school people are twats'. Because its obviously not true in the same way as going around saying 'all state school people are thickos'.

Anyone how wants to k now what my education was like should read Molesworth.

 

[spanglechick]

My school was no utopian paradise, and more of a Dickensian nightmare in the GCSE years and a stuffy Gentleman’s Club in the sixth form. And I'll never know whether I would be a better person if I had gone to the local comp. The one I would of gone to was pretty good at the time, in terms of results, although subsequently its gone downhill big-time.

Anyway the point is its difficult not to take it personally when you read stuff that says 'all private school people are twats'. Because its obviously not true in the same way as going around saying 'all state school people are thickos'.

Anyone how wants to k now what my education was like should read Molesworth.

or read your posts...

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

Ithink that no matter what school you went to it will have shaped you in some way. some good, some bad.
I think my parents in particular fell into the trap of believing their political ideal= best for their child and that was the end of the matter

No school can be right for every child and for some children state school will be fab, others private school will be. If you can afford to offer it as an option and wish to do so then great, the childs options are widened.
Its ridiculous to say 'society is like this, you go to state school where you get all of society, it will make you learn"
for some people that will be an incredibly damanging experience, especially where learning to deal with it = being bullied constantly for whatever reason
Thats not to say it wouyldnt happen in an independent school but we need to get away from this 'School is....' idea and realise that not every child will thrive in a given school and if that doesnt fit your political ideals then you are doing your child a disservice if you believe, without doing your homework that offering them any other choice would be bad for them

 

[Hocus Eye.]

If you can afford to send your children to a private school then put the money in a decent bank account instead. What you get from a private school is smaller classes. That is a good thing but if it goes with old-style teaching and less qualified teachers then its effect will be seriously muted.

If on the other hand you build up a fund for your children you can then dip into it later for extra lessons from a private tutor at year 9, 10 or 11 if problems arise at a state school.

In years 12 and 13 they could decide for themselves whether to stay at school, go to a sixth form college or another school for AS and A levels (if these still exist then). If the money is not used up at that stage it will be very useful at University with course fees etc to be paid.

And if they decide at age sixteen to run away and join a circus you can spend the money on yourself.

The only other reason to send children to a private school might be to get them out of the exam result production line. All state schools these days tend to 'teach to the exams' as policy (once described as bad practice) because this affects their so-called 'league table' results. There might be a private school around that eschews this practice in favour of a child centred approach or an alternative education. I don't know of any but who knows?

If you want examination results and a National Curricum approach at reasonable cost then find a good state school within easy travelling distance.

Hocus

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

If problems arise at a state school they can be SO bad that you could wish you'd allowed your child to go to private from the start
The standard of schools here I dont want my children taking the chance if I can afford to educate them privately. They are dire

 

[northernhord]

I’m in a dilemma; my wife thinks we should send the kids to one of the numerous private schools in the area. We can afford it but there is something about it that grates on me. I came into the British education system at nine and it served me and my four brothers well.

Wify thinks I’ve been struck dumb by pseudo-middleclass angst.

Dont send them Scott, those sort of Schools are not good for young people, so theyve got extra resources, state schools will give your kids a better grounding in the real world than all that fuddy duddy middle class shite of Private schooling.
Where ever your kids wanna go let them have the say.

 

[scott_forester]

Could you tell us what your local education authority is?

I’m in Croydon.

I’m not sure any of my kids will have much trouble staying grounded; none of them are particularly spoilt as I’m obvious to pester power and all of them have at least two activities they do each week outside school. This is an effort on our part to ensure they have a diverse circle of friends – not for any grand social scheme just hoping as they get older they won’t be in much

 

[spanglechick]

I’m in Croydon.

I’m not sure any of my kids will have much trouble staying grounded; none of them are particularly spoilt as I’m obvious to pester power and all of them have at least two activities they do each week outside school. This is an effort on our part to ensure they have a diverse circle of friends – not for any grand social scheme just hoping as they get older they won’t be in much

interesting - the variety of schools here is massive (it's the borough I teach in, and I've worked in several of the schools.)

It's going to depend on where you are, really - not so much geographically, but which specific schools are closest. For example, Coulsden High is one of the worst schools in the area, where Woodcote High which is literally just down the road, is excellent (if that were your local school, private schools really would be a waste of money, big time).

I can understand if you don't want to be specific about area on here, but if you want to PM me I'll let you know my POV from the other side of the chalkface, as it were.

 

[scott_forester]

I can understand if you don't want to be specific about area on here, but if you want to PM me I'll let you know my POV from the other side of the chalkface, as it were.

oop

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

Dont send them Scott, those sort of Schools are not good for young people, so theyve got extra resources, state schools will give your kids a better grounding in the real world than all that fuddy duddy middle class shite of Private schooling.
Where ever your kids wanna go let them have the say.

But you don't consider for a second that giving them a private education may well mean they don't actually have to experience hardship in any really negative form? The 'real' world is whatever people experience. I don't buy into this attitude that every child should experience hardship because that's 'real' life. because its not. ( and I'm not privately educated)

Its what people without opportunities experience, that doesn't make it any more real than anyone Else's life and its only the norm because that's what the majority are forced to experience unless their parents are sufficiently motivated to pursue a good state education ( where available) or a private education.
Just becuase it is caused by the general lack of decent education provided by a state education ( and I accept there are exceptions across the board- it depends on the school) doesn't necessarily make it a desirable state for any child never mind every child. That's where the arguments about state education fall flat for me, there simply aren't many decent state schools in most areas ,where there are they tend to be in areas where parents have a decent standard of living an area. If an area isn't affluent you can forget any hope in the main of a decent education nor any real choice ( unless you have a very motivated school in your area which you can access)

Why would you want to place your children as ideal candidates for the dole queue if your options are limited to three or four identikit schools which will churn out a few select university entrants per year and a lot of less than well qualified, ill-disciplined children destined for YTS or basic skills courses at FE colleges and disruptive behaviour???? If you are a parent I can almost guaranteed faced with that choice you would choose to help them in some way using either tuition or private schooling or both, particularly if a child has special needs ( a whole other thread)

Its not a gamble I want to take with my children and will beg borrow and save whatever I can to ensure it happens for my children any other way than hoping they are in the few to end up in university. Ive watched A* students at GCSE in this area fail their A levels and end up in dead end jobs. If that's what happens to bright children I fear for the future of my children who aren't necessarily natural shiners. I didn't get to uni until 27. I don't want that for my children and that's their destiny in average/bad state schools.

If I had a good state school at my disposal to apply to ,wonderful!!! I definitely would do but I don't, I have three or four I am allowed to apply to for my children, have visited them all and came away feeling demoralised and feeling sick to the pit of my stomach, I saw nothing which made me feel these were positive places for anyone's child.
They were places where children achieved despite challenges which were in the form of a lack of opportunity in the school, not becuase anything wonderful or inspiring was being provided ( and this was with a teacher 'selling' me the schools)

I do not want my children exposed to the experiences which would be provided in any I saw. No way.

Looking round the schools open to me with a child with multiple special needs ( supposed to be met in these pathetic excuses for schools from no budget) means that even if I am in debt until i die my children wont attend them.

They ARE that bad.I worry for the children forced into them and the excuses these LEA's use to sell these schools as good environments
Ideals dont come into it when faced with appalling standards provided by state education,( where appalling standards is all thats available without paying) your child comes first.

 

[_angel_]

..

 

[equationgirl]

But you don't consider for a second that giving them a private education may well mean they don't actually have to experience hardship in any really negative form? The 'real' world is whatever people experience. I don't buy into this attitude that every child should experience hardship because that's 'real' life. because its not. ( and I'm not privately educated)

Its what people without opportunities experience, that doesn't make it any more real than anyone Else's life and its only the norm because that's what the majority are forced to experience unless their parents are sufficiently motivated to pursue a good state education ( where available) or a private education.
Just becuase it is caused by the general lack of decent education provided by a state education ( and I accept there are exceptions across the board- it depends on the school) doesn't necessarily make it a desirable state for any child never mind every child. That's where the arguments about state education fall flat for me, there simply aren't many decent state schools in most areas ,where there are they tend to be in areas where parents have a decent standard of living an area. If an area isn't affluent you can forget any hope in the main of a decent education nor any real choice ( unless you have a very motivated school in your area which you can access)

Why would you want to place your children as ideal candidates for the dole queue if your options are limited to three or four identikit schools which will churn out a few select university entrants per year and a lot of less than well qualified, ill-disciplined children destined for YTS or basic skills courses at FE colleges and disruptive behaviour???? If you are a parent I can almost guaranteed faced with that choice you would choose to help them in some way using either tuition or private schooling or both, particularly if a child has special needs ( a whole other thread)

Its not a gamble I want to take with my children and will beg borrow and save whatever I can to ensure it happens for my children any other way than hoping they are in the few to end up in university. Ive watched A* students at GCSE in this area fail their A levels and end up in dead end jobs. If that's what happens to bright children I fear for the future of my children who aren't necessarily natural shiners. I didn't get to uni until 27. I don't want that for my children and that's their destiny in average/bad state schools.

If I had a good state school at my disposal to apply to ,wonderful!!! I definitely would do but I don't, I have three or four I am allowed to apply to for my children, have visited them all and came away feeling demoralised and feeling sick to the pit of my stomach, I saw nothing which made me feel these were positive places for anyone's child.
They were places where children achieved despite challenges which were in the form of a lack of opportunity in the school, not becuase anything wonderful or inspiring was being provided ( and this was with a teacher 'selling' me the schools)

I do not want my children exposed to the experiences which would be provided in any I saw. No way.

Looking round the schools open to me with a child with multiple special needs ( supposed to be met in these pathetic excuses for schools from no budget) means that even if I am in debt until i die my children wont attend them.

They ARE that bad.I worry for the children forced into them and the excuses these LEA's use to sell these schools as good environments
Ideals dont come into it when faced with appalling standards provided by state education,( where appalling standards is all thats available without paying) your child comes first.

*applauds*

An excellent post.

The state vs private school is always going to be a heated one here.

In specific cases, where the state sector is failing children who have special requirements, sadly it seems to be the case that the parents have no option but to seek out specialist (and in most cases private) education for their child. The state sector should not be failing ANY child in their education, regardless of their needs, and it is sad that in this day and age, the 'one size fits all' education provision still seems to be the norm.

We seem to be fast turning into a society dictated by financial considerations rather than trying to do the best we can.

 

[the B]

I went to Dulwich College - let that be a warning!!

(in fact, so did quite a few urbanites - and a few more went to City of London)

 

[wandarer]

I don't know if this will help, you make your decision or not,
I think it depends entirely on the childs (personality, and how academic they are), and on the school (doesn't matter if its private or state)on how academic it is and whether it has a strong conformist attitude amongst the students and teachers. The latter is probably very hard or near impossible to judge, but I think it willl be something I will look for if I have children and when it comes to choosing a school.

The private school that I went to was very disciplined and strict, it was a very small private school, the other students were very narrowminded and have a very strong conformist attitude (I don't know if my year was particularly bad). I had a very old fashioned style education, and I gained the GCSE's and Alevels to get into university of my first choice. I was unable to conform and it wouldn't accept me as an individual so I lost a lot of confidence, while being at that school.. It wasn't till university did I feel I could be accepted for who I am and regain some of my confidence. I am still very disorganised and undisciplined.

I think if I had stayed at the local secondary school I would not have got the grades as I was already very bored , and had a particularly low pass rate. I possibly would have had more self confidence as I feel I may have been more likely to be accepted for being me as there were students from a wider variety of backgrounds. I don't think I learnt anything in the whole year I was there. I joined the private school in year 8 and it took me a while to catch up, after spending year 7 at the local secondary school.

I was not happy socially, at the any of the 4 schools (3 state, 1 private) I went to. I was particularly miserable at the private school (except for the 1st term which was my happiest through out all my schools). This changed because more and more pressure was placed on conforming amongst the students.

I am guessing that larger private or state schools would be more open minded (and less of a conforming attitude) as there would be more students there and from a larger variety of backgrounds. I think if there are very strong houses or divisions (little mixing of the students) it would probably be just as conformist as a small school. I am guessing if it is very very small village school (20 students in the whole school) conforming would never b an issue as everyone would socialise with everyone regardless.

 

[Red Faction]

i reckon let your kids go to the open day of both schools

after year 6 i applied to 2 state and 2 private schools

the 2 state ones were dire!
the grades were poor and neither seemed that nice
of the two private ones, both had good grades
one was full of 'toffs'
the other was really friendly and welcoming etc

id say let your kids go to wherever they feel they'll be happiest

 

[stereotypical]

Send em to a state school,

Reality knox

 

[Red Faction]

If you choose private education you will be cutting your children off from most of their contemporaries and limiting their understanding of their own generation and the society around them.

bollocks!

 

[the B]

i reckon let your kids go to the open day of both schools

after year 6 i applied to 2 state and 2 private schools

the 2 state ones were dire!
the grades were poor and neither seemed that nice
of the two private ones, both had good grades
one was full of 'toffs'
the other was really friendly and welcoming etc

id say let your kids go to wherever they feel they'll be happiest

I am not a toff

 

[Red Faction]

i apologise

it was the impression i was given when i was 11 years old by the 6th former doing the tour guide though!

still reckon i made the right choice though

 

[paolo]

for the older ones I'd definitely agree with the "see what they think" option.

I've only got my own school experience to draw on, but was chuffed to get a chance at a (state) grammar school at 11 years old and scraped in. It was tough as nails academically but of all the schools I did (quite a few - family moved around alot) I can really say it was the best. I'm not academic at all by the way - left as soon as I could.

But anyways, the whole thing was discussed with me and my parents - there was no pressure at all. They suggested the idea of me doing the 11 plus thing and I was up for it. If you can do something with your kid's buy in then (i'd guess) it will add alot to their commitment and hopefully success.

 

[paolo]

But then again I grew up to be an alcy insomniac spending far too much time on forum sites. So maybe best to ignore me.

 

[frogwoman]

i personally would never ever ever send my kids to private school, but thats because of the horrible experiences i had while i was there which i'm still not entirely over. i know not all private schools are like the ones i went to, and if you think that your childs needs might be better suited by going there or that the schools in the area aren't very good, then you might want to consider it.

at the end of the day though it's up to you - but think very carefully about it as its something that will affect your kids' future and their attitudes to life.

 

[tommers]

Anyone who thinks private schools are full of arrogant snobby tossers ANd has never been to private school can only guess. I went, a lot of arrogant snobby tossers but also some decent people. I've had a mixture of schooloing and thnk the arrogance and tosser element has fa to do with being private or public.

true.

but you do have to bear in mind the amount of inverted snobbery in this country.

we've seen some of it in this thread....

 

[Sid's Snake]

A thread about the virtues of public shools

Someone says a lot of decent people went there...

And then a chap called tommers pipes up and says his piece

rah rah fucking rah

 

[moose]

There are lots of poorly thought out stereotypes being bandied around on this thread I had a private education paid for by the state, as they did in the 70s/80s, and it worked out very well for me.

I'd like to think I'm not out of touch with reality, snobbish, or arrogant. The best thing about my education is that it gave me opportunities to do things which girls in the local state schools at the time weren't offered - whilst they were cooking and learning shorthand, we were learning metalwork and engineering skills, and encouraged into sciences, law, medicine, and business. Obviously girls everywhere have greater oportunities now, but I don't regret my education for a minute.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

There are lots of poorly thought out stereotypes being bandied around on this thread I had a private education paid for by the state, as they did in the 70s/80s, and it worked out very well for me.

I have several friends who went to private school and none of my friends are snobbish. However, it was quite interesting watching Kidulthood with one, who was totally astonished by some of the narratives in that film. Mind you, if I had only hung out with the middle class top sets when I was at school perhaps I would have had similar experiences.

I'd be interested to know how some of the people who went to private school see the private school/state system. Because while I'd never automatically judge someone for sending their kids to private school, or judge someone who is a product of private school (my bf for one), I still in principle find the idea of a two tier school system where those with money can afford a better education, and which leads to a lassez faire attitude toward state schools in some areas, absolutely disgusting.

E2A: On the other hand, in practice I do have sympathy with what LMHF said in her post. Even though I still know that if parents who can possibly afford it send their kids to private schools then the state schools get increasingly doomed.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I know a teacher who was headhunted by one of the top 5 public schools.... He was very underwhelmed by what was on offer for the children and concluded that the standard of teaching was piss-poor in comparison to the state sector and that the staff he met were whingy, self-obsessed and somewhat weird...he stayed put in the comprehensive system, despite less money because the job satisfaction is far better.

 

[moose]

I still in principle find the idea of a two tier school system where those with money can afford a better education, and which leads to a lassez faire attitude toward state schools in some areas, absolutely disgusting.

There's a three tier system round here as we still have the 11-plus - local comps for 11-plus 'failures', state grammars for 11-plus passers, private grammars for people who can afford it, or are supported by bursaries.

 

[Fledgling]

true.

but you do have to bear in mind the amount of inverted snobbery in this country.

we've seen some of it in this thread....

Good point, and one I encounter all the time, prejudice transcends all divisions. IMO snobbery and inverted snobbery are as bad as each other but then I've always been somewhat radical. If I had kids balls to ideology, if they like the school and I like the school and think they'll get a lot out of it I'd send them, private or state or boarding. Rational choice rather than uninformed idealistic nonsense. My choice mind, I wouldn't discriminate based on whether a school was stare, private or public. But if my kids hated it I'd be reluctant to send them there.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Good point, and one I encounter all the time, prejudice transcends all divisions. IMO snobbery and inverted snobbery are as bad as each other but then I've always been somewhat radical.

Oh for fucks sake!

Yes, inverted snobbery is wrong, I hate any kind of snobbery fyi, but when inverted snobbery can combine to keep you out of work or otherwise reduce your chances of success or even living in any form of comfort, and drip, drip, drip to make you feel worthless about yourself and/or completely cut off from society, then you can make direct comparisons IMO.