To Cane or Not To Cane

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I wouldn't disagree. But I guess it's a lot easier to talk about principles when it's just a question of "to cane or not?" than it is when it comes down to "send someone to die in a stupid war or not?".

I'm not convinced there IS such a direct connection between nations fighting wars and yoof violence - I work with yoof, sometimes quite violent ones, as the bruises all over me arms and legs from last Tuesday aver - there are dozens of other reasons why the yoof get violent which are only at best remotely connected to our warmongering ways.

But I wouldn't dispute that it's one of many factors...

The world can be a shitty place. Good people do what they can to make it better. Bad people make it worse, without even trying most of the time. Good to be good, innit. All you can do.

Maybe not a direct link between war and yout violence, but if a 15 year old does ever see some politico cunt banging on about leaving their knives at home, then in the next breath muttering platitudes of killing Arabs for the greater good, gotta send out some odd signals

 

[CNT36]

I tried to take the one show seriously but couldn't for two reasons first its the one show. Second I couldn't help thinking of the Ali G interview where he talks about being cained in school and only heard what was being said in the context.

 

[Funky_monks]

Absolutley not in favour of caning.

The thought alone of anyone trying to cane my daughter makes me angry. I'd go mental if it happened (although its unlikley as she's only three weeks old).

 

[8ball]

The thought alone of anyone trying to cane my daughter makes me angry. I'd go mental if it happened (although its unlikley as she's only three weeks old).

Cane some sense into 'em when they're young!!

 

[Funky_monks]

Cane some sense into 'em when they're young!!

Try it, and I'll cane your face, mate.

 

[8ball]

Try it, and I'll cane your face, mate.

Bring it on - never did me any harm!!!

<twitches>

 

[Funky_monks]

Bring it on - never did me any harm!!!

<twitches>

Pervert!

 

[ViolentPanda]

No caning. Stupid idea.

I agree. A Sjambok works much better. Strips the skin right off 'em, so it does.

 

[Badgers]

I think no

 

[kained&able]

I'd like to think that most kids today if they were being caned(aiiit) by the teacher then they would grab the cane and beat the shit out of the teacher.

dave

 

[kyser_soze]

Use the cat o nine I say, WHIP some good behaviour into the little fuckers.

 

[Aldebaran]

Sorry, but I thought the Middle Ages had ended. My bad.

salaam.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

I'm not convinced by it. While Singapore / Malaysia might use it, the fact is that China doesn't (and in fact the teachers are generally loathe to punish the kids at all, probably even less than in Britain) and still has reasonable discipline in its schools (although the kids can be a bit rowdy at times).

 

[spring-peeper]

See this song -

"Another Brick In The Wall (Part II)"

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey teacher leave them kids alone
All in all it's just another brick in the wall
All in all you're just another brick in the wall

[chorus at end by pupils from the Fourth Form Music Class Islington Green School, London]

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey teacher leave us kids alone
All in all you're just another brick in the wall
All in all you're just another brick in the wall

There's lines about "don't beat your kids"

I tried to introduce my youngest to pink floyd and all he hears (regardless of the song) is people beating their children. And it horrifies him!!!

(((youngest child)))

I grew up in England where caning was common, moved to Canada and the punishment went from caning to strapping. Both are wrong, imo and I can understand where my child is coming from. Nothing is ever accomplished with violence. There are always alternatives.

 

[Y_I_Otter]

Caning leads to anarchy and violent insurrection. Fact.

 

[spring-peeper]

^^^^

huh?

soz, didn't see the movie.

and your comment, caller?

 

[Roadkill]

And there are very few incidents of people ending up back inside for more of that in Singapore/Malaysia etc. (tho. there are a couple of loons for whom 1st time wasn't enough.)

Is that true?

I'm prepared to be persuaded but I've seen no figures, and little I've read on Britain a century or so ago suggests that judicial corporal punishment had a particularly good record in terms of preventing reoffending.

 

[8ball]

Sorry, but I thought the Middle Ages had ended. My bad.

Only in parts of Norfolk.

 

[Louloubelle]

anyone who thinks that caning children is a good idea would do well to read the books of Edith Kadivec, a pervert who worked as a schoolteacher only to gain access to kids so she could cane and whip them.

Her books were published as S&M erotica by various publishers but do provide a very real insight into how an abusive adult sets out about abusing kids for their own amusement

 

[rubbershoes]

Yes, true. But doing it up close and personal to kids at an impressionable age is going to be a lot harder to disentangle from "normality" than an abstract .

i don't aqree

we had caning at school and we were aware that violence wasn't normal behaviour. we knew it was punishment

 

[8ball]

Caning can help society progress by instilling a deep hatred of authority.

 

[thought]

I used to get caned at school in the late 80's private school.

I used to get it for things i had no control over and were caused by a sld.

I dont belive that allowing one or two people to decide if a child is to receive a cane is acceptable. No one aught to be in a position of power that they are court and jury.

 

[DotCommunist]

obedience inspired by fear of pain is the vilest of ideas

 

[badco]

That is the question....

If you said caine and not cane I would have said Sky Classics right now zulu zulu zulu

 

[Brainaddict]

Caning can help society progress by instilling a deep hatred of authority.

This is about the only thing to be said in favour of it

 

[Brainaddict]

obedience inspired by fear of pain is the vilest of ideas

But they're just kids y'know. They're not *really* human. They only attain human rights when they get to the age of 16. Before that they are closer to monkeys

Hmm, I seem to have inadvertantly suggested that it's okay to cane monkeys

 

[softybabe]

No caning...i was caned as a child but totally against it...we have no right to do that to a child

 

[Gavin Bl]

when I was at school (late 70s in S. Wales) corporal punishment was so routine, and completely worthless - the kids who behaved the worst saw it as a badge of honour. It became an almost comical routine, one of our teachers would give you 'the dap' (the old black plimsoll), he did it to every boy in the class on one occasion. It was pathetic. It became a game between a handful of male teachers to see who could use the most bizarre methods to hit children. Needless to say, bullying among pupils was endemic in this atmosphere.

I'm all for discipline in schools, and teachers should absolutely have the right to use force in some circs, but ritualised corporal punishment was crap. Lines were much more of a deterrent, iirc.

 

[berniedicters]

i don't aqree

we had caning at school and we were aware that violence wasn't normal behaviour. we knew it was punishment

When I spoke about "disentangling from normality", I wasn't suggesting that corporal punishment was anything other than punishment (though, clearly, to some of those perpetrating it, it is).

But if we legitimise violence as a form of punishment, we ARE normalising it as a response to other people doing things we don't want them to do.

Yes, of course we know it's punishment. So next time we feel we need to "punish" someone else, we've chipped away a little more at the idea that clouting someone isn't appropriate.

 

[berniedicters]

when I was at school (late 70s in S. Wales) corporal punishment was so routine, and completely worthless - the kids who behaved the worst saw it as a badge of honour. It became an almost comical routine, one of our teachers would give you 'the dap' (the old black plimsoll), he did it to every boy in the class on one occasion. It was pathetic. It became a game between a handful of male teachers to see who could use the most bizarre methods to hit children. Needless to say, bullying among pupils was endemic in this atmosphere.

I'm all for discipline in schools, and teachers should absolutely have the right to use force in some circs, but ritualised corporal punishment was crap. Lines were much more of a deterrent, iirc.

I got "the slipper" in primary school for something I had no control over. I couldn't possibly say that that sole (oh, ho ho ho ho ho! pun not intended) incident was responsible for my healthy disdain for authority from there on in, but I most certainly did have a profoundly cynical attitude towards those who would tell me what to do from pretty much there on in.

Perhaps (and it's a BIG "perhaps"), a scrupulously fair corporal punishment regime, where there can be no doubt whatsoever that the culprit is guilty and knows it could be made to work, but the moment you administer that kind of treatment to someone who knows they didn't do what they've been accused of doing, you've given the system another enemy. I think there's something sufficiently primal about having pain inflicted on oneself that it will have a profound influence either way. And, of course, if the system falls into disrepute - ie., others get to realise that you can be arbitrarily beaten - you're creating a population whose mindset is going to tend that little bit more towards "might as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb...".

Personally, quite apart from my own moral and ethical objections to it, I think that the risks inherent in using corporal punishment as a way of training people to behave in a certain way are so big as to be pointless even running them.