to buy or not to buy a car...

[zenie]

Individual trips can be but overall you'd often save money.

On what?

It costs me 12 quid to get to my Mum's if Im staying over night that's 12 quid each way to go 20 miles? And that's off peak, if I go before half 9 it costs over 20 quid (each way)

There are no cheap fares and it costs me a tenner in petrol return if I take the car. You do the maths?

I'm not saying it's particularly 'green' to have a car, but compared to taking flights the green impact is minimal isn't it?

 

[editor]

You're alright if you live somewhere with good public transport and have time to book fares in advance so you get cheap transport, but going places on a whim gets really expensive!

I don't believe that people have the 'right' to drive off on a polluting whim whenever the fancy takes them.

It's a different story for people living in remote areas with poor transport links, of course, but most driving takes place in urban areas where the 'need' for a car is not always so convincing.

 

[fredfelt]

Don't do it. Cars smell.

Train and bike. When I take train up to Scotland it's just fine and completley stress free.

Public transport is loads more expensive if you have a car ... you have already paid for part of the trip by car regardless if you make that trip or not.

I can easily do mountain bike weekends with panniers and rack holding all I need. Its pure. You don't get laidened down with unnecessary kit as you take just what you can carry at the camp site.

But if you do get a car to go mountain biking I'll be asking for a lift...

 

[Bob_the_lost]

On what?

It costs me 12 quid to get to my Mum's if Im staying over night that's 12 quid each way to go 20 miles? And that's off peak, if I go before half 9 it costs over 20 quid (each way)

There are no cheap fares and it costs me a tenner in petrol return if I take the car. You do the maths?

I'm not saying it's particularly 'green' to have a car, but compared to taking flights the green impact is minimal isn't it?

If that's your sole journey using the car rather than the train then you'd have to make it 34 times a year to make your car economical, assuming you don't service it and excluding the cost of the car / random costs. Based on off peak that is, worst case for the trains would be a mere 16 times. Less than that and you'd be better off on the train.

Isn't maths fun?

But this thread isn't about you, CC has a bike in a fairly bike friendly city, the number of times she'd use a car is much less.

 

[pinkmonkey]

How many days are you gonna use it for? We decided not to buy. There's a 1car1 hire place 20 mins walk from us, they'll hire us a car for £25 a day or £125 a week. We spend about £500 a year with them. Infact we've booked a car for two weeks over Christmas.

So we get a brand new Corsa, don't have to worry about repairs, insurance or tax or any of that.

 

[zenie]

I don't believe that people have the 'right' to drive off on a polluting whim whenever the fancy takes them.

It's a different story for people living in remote areas with poor transport links, of course, but most driving takes place in urban areas where the 'need' for a car is not always so convincing.

Well I'm glad you don't make the rukles about car driving then

Who are you to tell people what to do when you fly yourself? The audacity honestly!

 

[editor]

Who are you to tell people what to do when you fly yourself?

I'm not "telling people" to do anything. I'm expressing my opinion.

Sorry if I dare to hold one that's different to yours.

 

[zenie]

If that's your sole journey using the car rather than the train then you'd have to make it 34 times a year to make your car economical, assuming you don't service it. Based on off peak that is, worst case for the trains would be a mere 16 times. Less than that and you'd be better off on the train.

Isn't maths fun?

But this thread isn't about you, CC has a bike in a fairly bike friendly city, the number of times she'd use a car is much less.

Except I can't carry luggage on the train, and that isn't the only journey I make it was an example.

Exactly, it's about crustychick and she wants a car, I don't get why people are trying to talk her out of it if it's what she wants?

I'm not "telling people" to do anything. I'm expressing my opinion.

Sorry if I dare to hold one that's different to yours.

But your opinion's flawed isn't it?

Unless flying is less polluting than car driving?

 

[Bob_the_lost]

*looks around for topic*

*spots it disappearing off into the distance*

 

[mattie]

Edinburgh-Leeds return by car: 400 miles @ 20p a mile = £80.

10p a mile is a more realistic assessment if you're simply referring to fuel, but that's only ever going to rise.

My company pay 25p per mile which is intended to cover fuel, wear and tear and necessary insurance (it costs marginally more for using for purposes of work than just for commuting) - if fuel is less than half of this, it indicates that the 'hidden' costs can be quite significant.

eta: and 25p per mile is actually quite low in comparison to other employers - perhaps due to the fact that most of us drive bangers.

 

[Cobbles]

Factually inaccurate nonsense from Cobbles as usual.

Cost of Saver Return Edinburgh-Leeds = £72.80. This is a walk-up fare, you can buy it on the day and then come back any time you want within a month. The only restrictions that would apply would be that you couldn't use some peak-hour trains fom major cities. This would not be an issue if you were travelling at the weekend or for leisure.

Edinburgh-Leeds return by car: 400 miles @ 20p a mile = £80.

But it's 3 hours each way - if you get a walk up fare and have to travel off peak then you'd have to leave mid afternoon!!!!!!!!

Great if you only want to spend 15 minutes in Leeds before the off peak disappears for the return leg so it looks like the nonsense is in the train calculation.

BTW A car with 2 people will accomplish the travel for the same cost so that the round trip works out at £40 each.

In a car you get a seat. The same does not hold true on a Virgin Voyager that started off in Penzance and even a Ford Escort of 98 vintage offers more comfort than slime class on our rail network.

 

[fredfelt]

£700 quid for a car! Pah, you could get a really nice road bike for that.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Great if you only want to spend 15 minutes in Leeds before the off peak disappears for the return leg so it looks like the nonsense is in the train calculation.

*removes Cobbles "Careful reading" points*

 

[teuchter]

I'm not saying it's particularly 'green' to have a car, but compared to taking flights the green impact is minimal isn't it?

No, I don't think so.

A car with one person in it is about the same as flying in terms of emissions per mile per person.

If you've got 4 or 5 people in a car, however, your emissions per mile per person are obviously much better and arguably not much worse than a bus or train.

 

[Cobbles]

But if you do get a car to go mountain biking I'll be asking for a lift...

Why would you want to do that if Public Transport is so much better?

 

[marty21]

300 quid insurance
115 Road tax
50 mot
plus whatever petrol I use and that's it. - I get roughly 200 miles form 20 quids worth of petrol.

Nowhere near the thousands you're on about. It only costs that much if you're using the car as a daily driver and crustychick isn't gonna do that from what she's said.

pretty similar for me, insurance is about £350, tax the same, my mot costs about £25, and i get it serviced twice a year, costing me about £200, filling up the tank costs me about £40, and it'll cover about 3/400 miles, i doubt i do that in a month as i can walk to work

 

[teuchter]

But it's 3 hours each way - if you get a walk up fare and have to travel off peak then you'd have to leave mid afternoon!!!!!!!!

Great if you only want to spend 15 minutes in Leeds before the off peak disappears for the return leg so it looks like the nonsense is in the train calculation.

Factually incorrect Cobbles nonsense no. 2.

A quick check reveals that in actual fact there are no peak time restrictions for trains leaving Edinburgh for Leeds on a weekday morning, nor are there any leaving Leeds for Edinburgh on a weekday evening.




(E2A: Cobbles nonsense numbering system applies only to this thread, of course. A board-wide numbering system would require too much computing power)

 

[mattie]

No, I don't think so.

A car with one person in it is about the same as flying in terms of emissions per mile per person.

If you've got 4 or 5 people in a car, however, your emissions per mile per person are obviously much better and arguably not much worse than a bus or train.

Roger Kemp's stuff is quite interesting, one of my colleagues worked with him for a while and rates his research quite highly:

http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/travel/article2067255.ece

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpls/abs_all.jsp?arnumber=1394059
(not sure if this is accessible for everyone, my work machine is automatically recognised by most online journals)

Essentially, most of it is to do with loading, and he argues that in some cases car journeys are better than train. Horses for courses, which is what I think most people would argue anyway.

 

[teuchter]

Essentially, most of it is to do with loading, and he argues that in some cases car journeys are better than train. Horses for courses, which is what I think most people would argue anyway.

Yes, I accept that that argument can be made in certain cases. It depends on the loading of the train and the type of train, and there are all sorts of other things that make it difficult to arrive at a definitive figure.

The rail industry does need to make more of an effort in specifying new trains to keep up with the increasing efficiency of modern cars.

 

[Cobbles]

You need to add the capital cost and depreciation too.

And has it never broken down and needed to be repaired?

E2A: fill this in honestly and see what the result is:

http://www.eta.co.uk/tools/carcalcstart.asp

Works out about £5,000 per annum for me (not including business mileage as that's charged back).

Cheap at twice the price for the enjoyment that I get out of it. A rental tack box may well be capable of moving you from A to B (in the same way that an escalator just provides movement) but where's the fun in that - it'd cost at least £250 a day to hire anything halfway decent in the enjoyment stakes.

Public transport is simply a utility provided at the convenience of the operator.

Private transport generates pleasure as the same time that it generates freedom and independence.

 

[crustychick]

Don't do it. Cars smell.

Train and bike. When I take train up to Scotland it's just fine and completley stress free.

Public transport is loads more expensive if you have a car ... you have already paid for part of the trip by car regardless if you make that trip or not.

I can easily do mountain bike weekends with panniers and rack holding all I need. Its pure. You don't get laidened down with unnecessary kit as you take just what you can carry at the camp site.

But if you do get a car to go mountain biking I'll be asking for a lift...

well, depends where in Scotland you want to go. To go to my parents, I have to get a train to glasgow and then back to ayr and it takes 8.5 hours on the train and costs £100 return. it's a hassle taking my bike or any decent amount of luggage.... car is easier. end of.

but, this isn't really a car vs train thread. I'd prefer to take the train, but it just doesn't work with what I want to do. so, great, if it works for you and the editor, but it isn't working for me especially since I can't just swan off to New York on holiday and all my holidays are in the UK or norther Europe

 

[youbeauty]

I don't believe that people have the 'right' to drive off on a polluting whim whenever the fancy takes them.

Having just looked at your photos of New York, I assume you're all in favour of people having the 'right' to fly off on a polluting whim whenever the fancy takes them?

 

[christonabike]

Yes, it has all got a bit polarized on the cars v trains front

I have always managed with public transport (39 years of no vehicle ownership) but now own my first vehicle, a van, converted for sleeping in the back, and used it many times this summer, enjoying it very much: outside living, no hotel bills, all that comes with walking in the lake-district, festy up in the north of England, and getting to the Eden Project

I could not have had the same summer without it

I cycle to work, and we do not use it around town

I plan on not flying for a while

Swings and roundabouts and not as simple as cars are bad

 

[crustychick]

Yes, it has all got a bit polarized on the cars v trains front

I have always managed with public transport (39 years of no vehicle ownership) but now own my first vehicle, a van, converted for sleeping in the back, and used it many times this summer, enjoying it very much: outside living, no hotel bills, all that comes with walking in the lake-district, festy up in the north of England, and getting to the Eden Project

I could not have had the same summer without it

I cycle to work, and we do not use it around town

I plan on not flying for a while

Swings and roundabouts and not as simple as cars are bad

exactly - well put

I like you.

 

[Cobbles]

Factually incorrect Cobbles nonsense no. 2.

A quick check reveals that in actual fact there are no peak time restrictions for trains leaving Edinburgh for Leeds on a weekday morning, nor are there any leaving Leeds for Edinburgh on a weekday evening.

Begs the question as to why they read out 2 minutes worth of "if you've got one of the following types of ticket sod off now" on most of the Southbound ones that I use (08:05;10:05 and 11:05), as well as the Northbound ones departing from 15:00-19:05 - the last one.

We also seem to have failed to address the fact that the ticket merely provides the right to get on the train, it doesn't guarantee any creature comforts or little luxuries such as a seat.

In any case we've established that if you're travelling alone (which is probably the default situation for a train-lover), then you may be able to use certain tickets on weekdays so if you take a day off work and like going from one railway station to another then the train costs about the same as a car (without any of the flexibility - (e.g. "who are those saddoes over there running for the door at 18:00 - awwwwwww they've got to catch the last train home").

 

[Spymaster]

well, depends where in Scotland you want to go. To go to my parents, I have to get a train to glasgow and then back to ayr and it takes 8.5 hours on the train and costs £100 return. it's a hassle taking my bike or any decent amount of luggage.... car is easier. end of.

but, this isn't really a car vs train thread. I'd prefer to take the train, but it just doesn't work with what I want to do. so, great, if it works for you and the editor, but it isn't working for me especially since I can't just swan off to New York on holiday and all my holidays are in the UK or norther Europe

Having read your posts on this thread you should definitely buy the car.

It sounds good value but as others have said, the mileage is very low. Check it out.

Happy motoring.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Rent One!

You'd be paying a minimum of £500 a year in bills on the car right? If you can find somewhere that'll rent you a car at £125 a week that's 4 weeks of motoring for the same price, without any worries over maintenance, servicing, tax, insurance, MOT, parking, cleaning and the like. Same amount of money but less worries and if you're using it less than 4 weeks you're saving money overall.

 

[Spymaster]

Why does everyone keeping harping on about the cost?

It costs money to run a car, not necessarily a lot but certainly something. Price comparisons with trains and hire cars are utterly pointless.

CC needs a car for convenience and enjoyment and is prepared to invest a sum of money to achieve both.

Good luck to her.

 

[teuchter]

Begs the question as to why they read out 2 minutes worth of "if you've got one of the following types of ticket sod off now" on most of the Southbound ones that I use (08:05;10:05 and 11:05), as well as the Northbound ones departing from 15:00-19:05 - the last one.

Hmmm. What to believe - Cobbles anecdote or National Rail?
I woud suggest that the list of ticket types they are reading out does not in fact include Saver Returns.

Checked for Tuesday 15th January 2008 on National Rail Enquiries website:

Departures from Edinburgh 08:00 08:13 09:05 09:30 10:05 from Edinburgh:
Saver return (£75.80) Valid on all of these.

Departures from Leeds 15:05 15:12 16:05 16:12 17:05 17:12 18:05 18:12 18:27 19:05 19:12 20:09
Saver return (£75.80) Valid on all of these.

Buying an advance ticket now would allow you to travel for under £30 return on nearly all of those trains too, by the way.

Note that the last train is at 20.09, not 19.05. I think you need to sack your travel agent.

We also seem to have failed to address the fact that the ticket merely provides the right to get on the train, it doesn't guarantee any creature comforts or little luxuries such as a seat.

Perhaps you could consider making a reservation? It only costs £0.

 

[christonabike]

Perhaps you could consider making a reservation? It only costs £0.

Train gets cancelled, wait around for an hour for another, no more reservation

It happens a lot

Have you travelled on a Sunday? The last time I did, it was a right twat

Oh yeah, and I like public transport, but decided to mix it up a bit