To annoy the Police are Wonderful types

[Blagsta]

What notion of private property do you propose?

I like the way you focus on that and ignore the rest of my post!

Put briefly - I would like society to be run for people not for profit.

 

[pdxm]

Whether someone sees something as wrong is dependent on their particular circumstances. Someone stealing to support a drug habit may know it is wrong in some abstract sense, but they also know that they don't want to go into withdrawals or that they cannot tolerate the way they feel without drugs. Right and wrong are relative. You're also presupposing that people act rationally...people don't a lot of the time. People act on feelings a lot of the time and rational assessments of right and wrong don't come into it. Knowing you feel angry and taking that anger out on someone is not a rational act...yet we all do it to varying degrees.

Depends on your notion of rational does it not?

 

[Blagsta]

When you say change notions of private property do you mean abolish an individual's right to own property?

No.

 

[Blagsta]

Depends on your notion of rational does it not?

Explain?

 

[pdxm]

I like the way you focus on that and ignore the rest of my post!

Put briefly - I would like society to be run for people not for profit.

Didn't mean to ignore it only this was the part that raised the most questions. The legalise drugs argument is a long running one and I am familar with it and we've touched up the mental health one.

 

[Blagsta]

Didn't mean to ignore it only this was the part that raised the most questions. The legalise drugs argument is a long running one and I am familar with it and we've touched up the mental health one.

You've been touching who up?

 

[pdxm]

Explain?

Well theft and robbery could be quite rational concepts cold they not. I don't have x, I want x, I'm physically capable of takng x of person y therefore I will could be described as a perfectly rational concept. Arguably morally wrong but rational none the less

 

[pdxm]

You've been touching who up?

Sorry touched on! Damn pinot!

 

[Blagsta]

Well theft and robbery could be quite rational concepts cold they not. I don't have x, I want x, I'm physically capable of takng x of person y therefore I will could be described as a perfectly rational concept. Arguably morally wrong but rational none the less

Yes, but I'm not sure what that has to do with what I posted.

 

[harticus]

No.

Then I am unfamiliar with this notion, so with a strait no to my previous question I can't really respond

 

[pdxm]

Yes, but I'm not sure what that has to do with what I posted.

Because I felt you tried to connect the rights and wrongs of an action with how people cognitively came to perform the action. I tried to point out that a person can perform an action quite rationally yet it would still be wrong.

 

[Blagsta]

Then I am unfamiliar with this notion, so with a strait no to my previous question I can't really respond

I'd like land, resources, industry etc to be socially owned rather than privately owned.

 

[Blagsta]

Because I felt you tried to connect the rights and wrongs of an action with how people cognitively came to perform the action. I tried to point out that a person can perform an action quite rationally yet it would still be wrong.

Yes, they can.

What's your point?

 

[pdxm]

I'd like land, resources, industry etc to be socially owned rather than privately owned.

We've done that and it was crap in the most part. Maybe you'd like queues at the state run bakery?

 

[pdxm]

Yes, they can.

What's your point?

My point is that habitual criminals are in the most part quite rational in the commission of crime, to the extent that they employ the rational part of their brain to large degree in planning how not to get caught.

 

[Blagsta]

My point is that habitual criminals are in the most part quite rational in the commission of crime, to the extent that they employ the rational part of their brain to large degree in planning how not to get caught.

Depends on the criminal, depends on the crime. No one acts rationally all the time, humans just aren't like that. I agree that bank robbers plan rationally. Pissed up lad looking for a fight much less so. My point was that knowing that something is right or wrong is not a fixed absolute. Notions of right and wrong vary. People do things they are know are wrong when under the influence of drugs, stress or extreme emotion but at the time "knowing" that something is wrong doesn't even come into it because their behaviour is coming from their feelings not their thoughts.

 

[pdxm]

Depends on the criminal, depends on the crime. No one acts rationally all the time, humans just aren't like that. I agree that bank robbers plan rationally. Pissed up lad looking for a fight much less so. My point was that knowing that something is right or wrong is not a fixed absolute. Notions of right and wrong vary. People do things they are know are wrong when under the influence of drugs, stress or extreme emotion but at the time "knowing" that something is wrong doesn't even come into it because their behaviour is coming from their feelings not their thoughts.

You appear to be arguing for an almost imoperable system of criminal justice whereby the offender simply has to show that their emotion over ran their thoughts to get away with it. Maybe that's the reason why we need to beef up the thought process by ensuring that the possible sanction far outweighs the immediate potential benefit of the proposed action.

 

[Blagsta]

You appear to be arguing for an almost imoperable system of criminal justice whereby the offender simply has to show that their emotion over ran their thoughts to get away with it.

Where have I done that?

 

[pdxm]

Where have I done that?

It is the net result of your observations

 

[Blagsta]

It is the net result of your observations

Eh? I'm just discussing stuff. I haven't written anything to suggest what you say. Can you please engage with what I write, not your imagination? Ta.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Eh? I'm just discussing stuff. I haven't written anything to suggest what you say. Can you please engage with what I write, not your imagination? Ta.

its standard stuff from cops really, interpreting what you say to demonstrate your potential/probable guilt. guilty until proven innocent and then not always proven anyway....

 

[pdxm]

Whether someone sees something as wrong is dependent on their particular circumstances. Someone stealing to support a drug habit may know it is wrong in some abstract sense, but they also know that they don't want to go into withdrawals or that they cannot tolerate the way they feel without drugs. Right and wrong are relative. You're also presupposing that people act rationally...people don't a lot of the time. People act on feelings a lot of the time and rational assessments of right and wrong don't come into it. Knowing you feel angry and taking that anger out on someone is not a rational act...yet we all do it to varying degrees.

I could say the same

 

[Blagsta]

You could say the same about what?

 

[pdxm]

You could say the same about what?

That you in the above post presupposed what I thought rather than engaging with what I had written

 

[Blagsta]

That you in the above post presupposed what I thought rather than engaging with what I had written

Eh? I was responding to this sentence of yours - "Many things may contribute to criminal behaviour, the point is that matters is is the person capable of knowing what they did was wrong or not."

In what way is that not engaging with what you wrote?

 

[pdxm]

Eh? I was responding to this sentence of yours - "Many things may contribute to criminal behaviour, the point is that matters is is the person capable of knowing what they did was wrong or not."

In what way is that not engaging with what you wrote?

Fair enough, it just wasn't clear. I'm still interested in your notions of private property....

 

[_angel_]

Pig said
There are still some, but most addicts tend to burgle as they get more money from that, they need sustainable income, each day.
Muggings by addicts are usually done by the ones who are absolutely deperate to get, say, a rock of crack in the next hour. And they are usually done in the early hours and it normally a handbag taken from a lone female.

This happened to my sis a few years ago. They must have/ he must have been desperate mugging someone who couldn't afford to take a taxi home.

Got next to nothing.

 

[Blagsta]

Fair enough, it just wasn't clear. I'm still interested in your notions of private property....

I've answered that too if you care to look.

 

[xenon]

I'd say poverty probably counts for most of the low level fraud type cases... muggings are usually fulled by addicts aren't they?
Money is definitely the motivator there. Not that I have too much sympathy with anyone sticking a knife in someone's face.

Most victims of muggings are likely to have next to fuck all anyway. If they didn't they wouldn't be walking alone often in the dark.

There are plenty of muggings carried out by peple who aren't drug addicts.

 

[The Black Hand]

There are plenty of muggings carried out by peple who aren't drug addicts.

Yeah - the treasury thumps me every time I fill up the car with petrol...