To annoy the Police are Wonderful types

[beesonthewhatnow]

See this is a good example of why i don't much bother with the P&P forums..........


no one actually answers the questions, it's just name calling and self righteous oneupmanship..

The reason I don't bother is that you just end up arguing with plastic anarkids like attica who think the world will be changed by posting stuff on a bulletin board and chucking bricks through a mcdonalds window.

 

[Firky]

The reason I don't bother is that you just end up arguing with plastic anarkids like attica who think the world will be changed by posting stuff on a bulletin board and chucking bricks through a mcdonalds window.

Check out his profile

 

[moomoo]

Thanks for that! Now I'm going to be reading all his posts in that accent.

Might make them a bit more interesting to me though.......

 

[The Black Hand]

See this is a good example of why i don't much bother with the P&P forums..........


no one actually answers the questions, it's just name calling and self righteous oneupmanship..

I am not spoon feeding you, that's not what it's about. Do some reading/research for yourselves.

I reply in kind, i don't start it.... as for the oneupmanship, again the twat started it so i replied, comes around goes around etc...

You had all better look in the mirror for the real culprit.

 

[The Black Hand]

The reason I don't bother is that you just end up arguing with plastic anarkids like attica who think the world will be changed by posting stuff on a bulletin board and chucking bricks through a mcdonalds window.

The only response to stupidity such as yours is;

Liar liar pants on fire.

 

[mentalchik]

I am not spoon feeding you, that's not what it's about. Do some reading/research for yourselves.

I reply in kind, i don't start it.... as for the oneupmanship, again the twat started it so i replied, comes around goes around etc...

You had all better look in the mirror for the real culprit.

Don't expect to be spoon fed but can't see why you can't answer a perfectly reasonable question about your post ?

I'm interested in what you think, i assume that's why you post on a discussion forum ?

 

[fractionMan]

The funny thing is that if you weren't being such a cock I'd be inclined to agree with some of the stuff you post Attica.

You're not here to debate or discuss anything, you're here to spam your worldview and have petty arguments about nothing in particular.

 

[mikeinworthing]

popcorn anyone?

 

[mentalchik]

Is it salty butter flavour ?

 

[The Black Hand]

The funny thing is that if you weren't being such a cock I'd be inclined to agree with some of the stuff you post Attica.

You're not here to debate or discuss anything, you're here to spam your worldview and have petty arguments about nothing in particular.

No, I am interested in debates it's just the ambiance isn't particularly suited to it - well i sensed that anyway. I do reply kindly to the rare sensible post there is, as I have today even.

 

[Firky]

In a strange quick of fate I have some popcorn with maple syrup

 

[mikeinworthing]

No, I am interested in debates it's just the ambiance isn't particularly suited to it - well i sensed that anyway. I do reply kindly to the rare sensible post there is, as I have today even.

Boots on lads, the bullshit is getting deeper.

*pulls up deckchair*

 

[The Black Hand]

Don't expect to be spoon fed but can't see why you can't answer a perfectly reasonable question about your post ?

I'm interested in what you think, i assume that's why you post on a discussion forum ?

Repeat your question please, and beware general questions which would need a book to reply to. Better to talk about specifics on Bboards...

 

[Firky]

I bet your mum thought that picture of che guevara you have on your wall was robert lindsay.

 

[mentalchik]

How would there be 'no crime'........i can't see how dismantling the penal system would stop 'crime' ?

 

[The Black Hand]

I bet your mum thought that picture of che guevara you have on your wall was robert lindsay.

No Che here pal.

 

[Firky]

How would there be 'no crime'........i can't see how dismantling the penal system would stop 'crime' ?

Because there is no such thing as a bad person only a society that makes people bad. Yes... I know.

 

[mentalchik]

*slaps self on forehead*

of course, ta firks !

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Check out his profile

Awesome

 

[mikeinworthing]

Awesome

Innit

Date of Birth:
May 1
Biography:
British Marxist Historians
Location:
Here, there and everywhere
Interests:
Autonomism, Marxist Humanism, Gramsci, Prison industrial complex, dual power, class justice.
Occupation:
Revolutionary

 

[The Black Hand]

How would there be 'no crime'........i can't see how dismantling the penal system would stop 'crime' ?

This is very brief and general;

The vast majority of crime is property related, only around 5% of people are in prison for violence. Prison does not work. It makes 'bad' people worse - they are universities of crime. Often institutionalistion goes; in care, young offenders, adult prison - a life of crime because of authority not because of the nature of the individual. There are many sharp minds in young offenders places, who have been failed by the education system. A more humanistic approach is needed at all levels.

There are around 3/4K women in prison - we can win the fight for penal abolition for women, and this is the first stage (and children). Most women in prison are inside for money related crime.

There is no such thing as crime there is nothing historically specific about crime. Even murder. What are boys with guns doing in Iraq (soldiers)? Deliberately killing people = murder. It is all about power and imagery, one is respectable and the other is not. It is about power and control.

Thus, the overwhelming amount of people in prison are working class, almost exclusively. Feudal law was changed into capitalist law when Industrial capitalism started not so very long ago (late 18th early 19th century), and the working class is the target of 'crime control'. Which is property control, discipline and punishment suitable in capitalism.

The incidents which are called crime are problematic situations, which used to be dealt with inside communities, though not always in progressive ways. The point is to develop alternatives in our time and communities.

 

[The Black Hand]

*slaps self on forehead*

of course, ta firks !

People are born free, and everywhere they are in chains.

There is nothing in people which is naturally 'bad'.

 

[zygote]

This is very brief and general;

The vast majority of crime is property related, only around 5% of people are in prison for violence. Prison does not work. It makes 'bad' people worse - they are universities of crime. Often institutionalistion goes; in care, young offenders, adult prison - a life of crime because of authority not because of the nature of the individual. There are many sharp minds in young offenders places, who have been failed by the education system. A more humanistic approach is needed at all levels.

There are around 3/4K women in prison - we can win the fight for penal abolition for women, and this is the first stage (and children). Most women in prison are inside for money related crime.

There is no such thing as crime there is nothing historically specific about crime. Even murder. What are boys with guns doing in Iraq (soldiers)? Deliberately killing people = murder. It is all about power and imagery, one is respectable and the other is not. It is about power and control.

Thus, the overwhelming amount of people in prison are working class, almost exclusively. Feudal law was changed into capitalist law when Industrial capitalism started not so very long ago (late 18th early 19th century), and the working class is the target of 'crime control'. Which is property control, discipline and punishment suitable in capitalism.

The incidents which are called crime are problematic situations, which used to be dealt with inside communities, though not always in progressive ways. The point is to develop alternatives in our time and communities.

But they're not talking about that ^^^^ at the meeting in July are they?
They're talking about alternative forms of punishment of crime.

Oh! I've woken up in the current affairs forum.

 

[The Black Hand]

But they're not talking about that ^^^^ at the meeting in July are they?
They're talking about alternative forms of punishment of crime.

Oh! I've woken up in the current affairs forum.

I was asked a question by mentalchik which I answered, i hope to her satisfaction. At the conference you just might be surprised what is talked about, there are a lot of very interesting names who certainly will not be constrained by boundaries. Note Phil Scratons work as one example.

 

[mentalchik]

This is very brief and general;

The vast majority of crime is property related, only around 5% of people are in prison for violence. Prison does not work. It makes 'bad' people worse - they are universities of crime. Often institutionalistion goes; in care, young offenders, adult prison - a life of crime because of authority not because of the nature of the individual. There are many sharp minds in young offenders places, who have been failed by the education system. A more humanistic approach is needed at all levels.

There are around 3/4K women in prison - we can win the fight for penal abolition for women, and this is the first stage (and children). Most women in prison are inside for money related crime.

There is no such thing as crime there is nothing historically specific about crime. Even murder. What are boys with guns doing in Iraq (soldiers)? Deliberately killing people = murder. It is all about power and imagery, one is respectable and the other is not. It is about power and control.

Thus, the overwhelming amount of people in prison are working class, almost exclusively. Feudal law was changed into capitalist law when Industrial capitalism started not so very long ago (late 18th early 19th century), and the working class is the target of 'crime control'. Which is property control, discipline and punishment suitable in capitalism.

The incidents which are called crime are problematic situations, which used to be dealt with inside communities, though not always in progressive ways. The point is to develop alternatives in our time and communities.

Fine, i take your point although i'm still not convinced that just abolishing the penal code would immediately stop some people taking advantage of others (the men that jumped and beat my son up in the street with an iron bar to the head for instance) but for that 5% that are violent what do you suggest then ? There are violent people that murder, rape etc etc it's a fact of life or are you suggesting that in your utopian world these people won't exsist ?

I'm not stupid i know full well that there are massive and complicated problems with 'law and order' but no one ever explains how we would go from one system to another ? Also i think i must be far more cynical about human behaviour, coz i don't believe that people would just co-operate and not take advantage !

 

[gentlegreen]

This is very brief and general;

The vast majority of crime is property related, only around 5% of people are in prison for violence. Prison does not work. It makes 'bad' people worse - they are universities of crime. Often institutionalistion goes; in care, young offenders, adult prison - a life of crime because of authority not because of the nature of the individual. There are many sharp minds in young offenders places, who have been failed by the education system. A more humanistic approach is needed at all levels.

25 percent according to this :-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/uk_prisons_in_the_uk/html/2.stm

 

[The Black Hand]

Fine, i take your point although i'm still not convinced that just abolishing the penal code would immediately stop some people taking advantage of others (the men that jumped and beat my son up in the street with an iron bar to the head for instance) but for that 5% that are violent what do you suggest then ? There are violent people that murder, rape etc etc it's a fact of life or are you suggesting that in your utopian world these people won't exsist ?

I'm not stupid i know full well that there are massive and complicated problems with 'law and order' but no one ever explains how we would go from one system to another ? Also i think i must be far more cynical about human behaviour, coz i don't believe that people would just co-operate and not take advantage !

I agree - I am talking about a positive movement for change developing, where we had the courage to deal with minor incidents without involving the filth. Where there was all round more respect, and respect can be achieved inside with violent offenders as one young offender teacher informed me this week. The screws are something else mind, they contribute to making prisoners and prisons nasty places;

"Prison does not work. It makes 'bad' people worse - they are universities of crime. Often institutionalistion goes; in care, young offenders, adult prison - a life of crime because of authority not because of the nature of the individual. There are many sharp minds in young offenders places, who have been failed by the education system. A more humanistic approach is needed at all levels."

I am talking not about an overnight or superficial transformation, but a struggle lasting several years, and starting with penal abolition for crimes of money and property (the vast majority), and working towards total penal abolition for children and women. The easiest place to start, and achievable.

I am not saying we will live in a society of saints, i am saying society will be all round better off as a result of these changes in the lives of millions.

 

[pdxm]

I agree - I am talking about a positive movement for change developing, where we had the courage to deal with minor incidents without involving the filth. Where there was all round more respect, and respect can be achieved inside with violent offenders as one young offender teacher informed me this week. The screws are something else mind, they contribute to making prisoners and prisons nasty places;

"Prison does not work. It makes 'bad' people worse - they are universities of crime. Often institutionalistion goes; in care, young offenders, adult prison - a life of crime because of authority not because of the nature of the individual. There are many sharp minds in young offenders places, who have been failed by the education system. A more humanistic approach is needed at all levels."

I am talking not about an overnight or superficial transformation, but a struggle lasting several years, and starting with penal abolition for crimes of money and property (the vast majority), and working towards total penal abolition for children and women. The easiest place to start, and achievable.

I am not saying we will live in a society of saints, i am saying society will be all round better off as a result of these changes in the lives of millions.

Hmm,

Where to begin? Abolition of prison for women? Why? What makes them so special. Abolition of prison for property crime? Somewhere you you can just take what you fancy? Where would the line lie? What about robbery, is that a violent crime or a property crime in your rather strange view of the world? How about criminal damage which whilst not amounting to a physical attack on a person can in many ways undermine their wellbeing in more subtle and sometimes sinister way, e.g racist graffiti, smearing shit on their property etc? Prison works because it keeps repeat offenders (and you really have to be a repeat offender to stand any chance of going to prison except for the most serious of offences) away from those who don't repeatedly offend and it is remarkably cheap compared with the overall cost of maintaining a repeat offenders lifestyle in the public domain.

 

[_angel_]

Hmm,

Where to begin? Abolition of prison for women? Why? What makes them so special. Abolition of prison for property crime? Somewhere you you can just take what you fancy? Where would the line lie? What about robbery, is that a violent crime or a property crime in your rather strange view of the world? How about criminal damage which whilst not amounting to a physical attack on a person can in many ways undermine their wellbeing in more subtle and sometimes sinister way, e.g racist graffiti, smearing shit on their property etc? Prison works because it keeps repeat offenders (and you really have to be a repeat offender to stand any chance of going to prison except for the most serious of offences) away from those who don't repeatedly offend and it is remarkably cheap compared with the overall cost of maintaining a repeat offenders lifestyle in the public domain.

That really is not true. People are imprisoned for not paying TV license fees and relatively low amounts of benefit fraud.

Then there are the antisocial bastards who seem not ever to be sent to jail.

 

[gentlegreen]

That really is not true. People are imprisoned for not paying TV license fees