nino_savatte
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I think people need to be told of the discourse behind works like the Aeropittura, rather than bury them forever.
Time to rethink Futurism?
- Thread starter nino_savatte
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nino_savatte
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Leica said:
Natürlich. But my point wasn't to declare whehter or not someone was first, though in my mind they were the first to paint the effect of speed for instance. The fastest anyone could travel before the invention of the steam train and the automobile was as fast as one's legs or horse could carry them.
But it was the pure [romantic] embrace of the technology here. This hadn't really been seen before.
I'm not defending the Futurists btw.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
nino_savatte
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ViolentPanda said:
Cheers for that! There's an essay by de Certeau that I've been trying to track down on that site too.
Stanley Edwards said:
not a lot, but I've had a look in a book I have and it seems you are right, the italians changed their mind about photography - a bit late, in 1930. It also seems they talked a lot but didn't produce much.
However, on the other side Rodchenko abandoned painting, and experimented with cameras, points of view etc. Although for the productivists art had a different meaning.
nino_savatte
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Leica said:
For a movement so obsessed with technology and the new, you'd have thought they would have embraced photography. Are there any reasons for this?
Too busy writing other manifestos perhaps? rivalry between painters and photographers? missed the train?
The Bragaglia brothers started around 1911 to experiment with shots of human movements for long exposure times. A couple of years later they called what they were doing 'fotodinamismo futurista' in the hope to be associated with the futurist painters. Anton Bragaglia also wrote a long essay with the same title and using Marinetti's rhetoric.
However, my book says that in late 1913 the Bragaglias were "officially excluded" from the movement. The painters apparently didn't want to accept that photography could be an art as well.
Later, in a tactical turn in the 1920s, they started to see the appeal of photography (after the war, and also prompted by the new developments in photography in France, Germany and the Soviet Union). The war also prompted their interest in aerial photos.
In 1930 the man himself Marinetti with photographer Tato (a.k.a. G. Sansoni) finally wrote a manifesto called 'futurist photography'.
On a side note, but also related to photography, I think it is interesting that in the big 'exhibition of the fascist revolution' in Rome in 1932 a central place was given to a huge photomontage [technique used by Dada, and by left artists such as Heartfield, and also in the Soviet Union]. The design of the exhibition in general had been influenced by El Lissitzky's collage techniques and exhibition practice.
The Bragaglia brothers started around 1911 to experiment with shots of human movements for long exposure times. A couple of years later they called what they were doing 'fotodinamismo futurista' in the hope to be associated with the futurist painters. Anton Bragaglia also wrote a long essay with the same title and using Marinetti's rhetoric.
However, my book says that in late 1913 the Bragaglias were "officially excluded" from the movement. The painters apparently didn't want to accept that photography could be an art as well.
Later, in a tactical turn in the 1920s, they started to see the appeal of photography (after the war, and also prompted by the new developments in photography in France, Germany and the Soviet Union). The war also prompted their interest in aerial photos.
In 1930 the man himself Marinetti with photographer Tato (a.k.a. G. Sansoni) finally wrote a manifesto called 'futurist photography'.
On a side note, but also related to photography, I think it is interesting that in the big 'exhibition of the fascist revolution' in Rome in 1932 a central place was given to a huge photomontage [technique used by Dada, and by left artists such as Heartfield, and also in the Soviet Union]. The design of the exhibition in general had been influenced by El Lissitzky's collage techniques and exhibition practice.
steeplejack
seeing off the new ball
Photogrpahy of motion had a big influence on Futurist painting, tto; look at Balla's Dynamism of a Dog on a leash and Girl Running on a Blacony (below)
Both pure Muybridge, amongst other things.
On the matter of fascist art, Mussolini was considerably more 'liberal' than either Hitler or Stalin whon intervened to impose a didactic monumental realism, coupled with threats of exhbiting bans, jail or worse. Mussolini let the arts be to a greater extent, although in the later years of the regime a turf war developed between Bottai and Farinacci; Bottai was in favour of experimentation, Farinacci more into a kind of sub-Nazi 'racial' realism. Subsequently, Bottai was one of the Fascist gerarchi who signed the order dissolving the regime and ordering Mussolini's arrest in August 1943.
Both pure Muybridge, amongst other things.
On the matter of fascist art, Mussolini was considerably more 'liberal' than either Hitler or Stalin whon intervened to impose a didactic monumental realism, coupled with threats of exhbiting bans, jail or worse. Mussolini let the arts be to a greater extent, although in the later years of the regime a turf war developed between Bottai and Farinacci; Bottai was in favour of experimentation, Farinacci more into a kind of sub-Nazi 'racial' realism. Subsequently, Bottai was one of the Fascist gerarchi who signed the order dissolving the regime and ordering Mussolini's arrest in August 1943.
nino_savatte
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Manifesto of Futurist Programmers
Here it is. It is essentially borrowed from one of Boccioi's manifestos.
http://www.sgi.com/misc/grafica/future/futman.html
Here it is. It is essentially borrowed from one of Boccioi's manifestos.
http://www.sgi.com/misc/grafica/future/futman.html
'Movements' ( in the arts ) are made up of young men and women, who affect a certain stridency but are really yet unsure of themselves.
Apart from life being a lonely business it makes sound economic/marketing sense to associate yourself with a few like-minded individuals with some clear idea about the world is going in order to first simplify some difficult ideas and present them in a seemingly more coherent form - which they can sell to newspapers with all the frisson of youth and 'threat.'
They are always a bit of a lie though.
What 'movement' could ever really have encompassed the mature genius of Breton, Louis Aragon, Bunuel?
Debord only became a fully recognisable ( and intriguingly, human ) figure when he ditched the pretence he was part of a collective and emerged as the machiavellian egomaniac he always was...
Futurism, the great Mr Toad withstanding, with its facile nihilsm, worship of technology and silly bloodlust is irrevelant to a the new century - whose concerns must be planetary and which must, in the words of Mrs Thatcher, search for harmony over discord
Apart from life being a lonely business it makes sound economic/marketing sense to associate yourself with a few like-minded individuals with some clear idea about the world is going in order to first simplify some difficult ideas and present them in a seemingly more coherent form - which they can sell to newspapers with all the frisson of youth and 'threat.'
They are always a bit of a lie though.
What 'movement' could ever really have encompassed the mature genius of Breton, Louis Aragon, Bunuel?
Debord only became a fully recognisable ( and intriguingly, human ) figure when he ditched the pretence he was part of a collective and emerged as the machiavellian egomaniac he always was...
Futurism, the great Mr Toad withstanding, with its facile nihilsm, worship of technology and silly bloodlust is irrevelant to a the new century - whose concerns must be planetary and which must, in the words of Mrs Thatcher, search for harmony over discord
This is from a 'group-manifesto'
nino_savatte
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black dwarf said:This is from a 'group-manifesto'
I know, mad isn't it?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Why 'must' it concern itself with any of these things? (and she was madly quoting St Francis of Assisi).black dwarf said:Futurism, the great Mr Toad withstanding, with its facile nihilsm, worship of technology and silly bloodlust is irrevelant to a the new century - whose concerns must be planetary and which must, in the words of Mrs Thatcher, search for harmony over discord
edit: sorry, read it wrong actually - thought you were saying 'art' rather than the world itself must be concerned with etc
Here's what Mayakovksky said about Marinetti after bumping into him in Paris, in 1925:
"We didn't know what to talk about. The hatred of one for the other was obvious, I a Bolshevik, he a Fascist."
Marinetti had been to Russia nine years earlier on a failed promotion tour.
"We didn't know what to talk about. The hatred of one for the other was obvious, I a Bolshevik, he a Fascist."
Marinetti had been to Russia nine years earlier on a failed promotion tour.
nino_savatte
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Indeed there was and it's interesting how those references went unnoticed by most consumers. Zang Tuum Tuum was supposed to be the sound of a machine gun's bullets flying through the air.
As for Spandau Ballet, they appropriated many fascistic images and some of these themes were incorporated into their songs.
Here's an extract from Musclebound
Another auld thread has been resurrected.
nino_savatte
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Well, this year is the centenary of the publication of Marinetti's first Futurist Manifesto.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
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