time for a national anarchist conference?

[Pickman's model]

Manchester Town Hall?

yeh, that looks right

 

[Solidarnosc]

yeh, that looks right

Well, if you've got £5.5k to spare...

 

[Nigel Irritable]

If there was a national anarchist conference called where anybody who said they were an anarchist could attend then frankly I wouldn’t go near it with a barge pole.

We have more than enough well meaning but badly thought through unity mongering on the Marxist side of the fence, so I can see where you are coming from on this. "Let's all get together" sounds like such a nice idea until you get down to concrete reality - who, why and on what basis. However the objection above doesn't seem to me to be insurmountable. Couldn't you draft the invite statement in a way that was attractive to the more serious class struggle people but repulsive to the punters you want no part of? Say by cobbling together the points in common from the aims of the existing federations?

 

[Col_Buendia]

Um, I don't live in London, I live in East Anglia.

The reason for the choice is it's already an event that's gonna get organised/publicised anyway, will provide a large venue and will have most of the larger groups represented regardless of who else turns up. It's just the easiest and most sensible choice I can think of.

The London anarchist bookfair is exactly that, London, why should it move? There is also a Norwich anarchist bookfair, and a Manchester anarchist bookfair, but afaik neither are as big or well attended/publicised atm, which was why I ruled them out, and a good reason why, rather than moan about the Londoners, perhaps you should put on your own bookfair? Earth First is too partisan/done in a big field in the middle of nowhere, Strawberry fair in cambridge would probly be happy to take it as well but aren't a specifically anarchist event and would almost certainly charge given the space they'd have to find (plus getting to Cam is a nightmare).

Afaik Brum would be horribly difficult to organise as there are very few people apart from West Mids who would be available locally to organise it all (and west mids are neither a big group nor an inactive one)

If you can think of a handier/cheaper/more usable venue then please, say so (as opposed to whinging 'it could be anywhere else' then not suggesting shit).

I'm not sure you realise how fucking arrogant you sound with this type of stuff, but carry on if you're only interested in alienating people who are supposedly "like-minded".

1st point of fact: I have a poster on the wall behind me which is for the "anarchist bookfair". I checked the website, and it is for the Anarchist Bookfair, so where is this London Anarchist Bookfair that you are talking about? Y'see, that's the bloody point. OF COURSE if you live in London, London seems like the obvious place. It is the obviousness of it that is irritating to the rest of us who have to trek up to attend. Clearly the London Anarchist Bookfair wouldn't be held in Chester, but I was talking about a different bookfair, the annual one that doesn't have the word "London" in its title.

2nd point of fact: I've already organised bookstalls as part of larger CAN events, so perhaps you should take your pious sermonising somewhere else? ("perhaps you should put on your own bookfair? ") From such small acorns - with the help of our London colleagues, of course - do great oaks blah de blah...

3rd point of fact: I wasn't whinging. Christ, are you even interested in having a civil discussion, or is this just trolling keyboardjockery? If it is I'll waste my time elsewhere, ta. I made a number of suggestions, all of which you seem to have ignored in your rush to be rude.

Snooch's suggestion seems like a reasonable enough one, but perhaps it is putting the cart before the horse. Perhaps it would be a question of going round the regions and finding out if people wanted a national meet, and what they might want out of it, rather than begin with the idea of the national meet and then try to get everyone to squeeze into that mold.

<intended in a helpful, comradely, constructive criticism sort of a way...> did you miss the strapline Rob?

 

[blamblam]

Col Buendia, all the people who organise the bookfair live and work in London. That's why they have it there. They wouldn't be able to organise it anywhere else if they wanted to.

Oh I agree with Stevil btw, it'd be a waste of time.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well, if you've got £5.5k to spare...

if there were a national anarchist conference, you'd need a decent size of venue. but in common with some others here, i think it's a bit of a non-starter.

 

[Col_Buendia]

Col Buendia, all the people who organise the bookfair live and work in London. That's why they have it there. They wouldn't be able to organise it anywhere else if they wanted to.

Oh I agree with Stevil btw, it'd be a waste of time.

Icepick, I am well aware of that. My problem was with Mr Ray's rather aggressive suggestion that it was the London anarchist bookfair. Perhaps this is being a little bit picky, but it is the Anarchist Bookfair that takes place in London, for all the reasons that you have listed.

But as everyone else is neg about this, I'll just say that meeting up with people like Mr Ray who respond to posts with "whinging shit" comments would not exactly inspire me with glee. So I'll say no too.

Back into my box, then.

That was a productive chat, eh?

 

[blamblam]

Icepick, I am well aware of that. My problem was with Mr Ray's rather aggressive suggestion that it was the London anarchist bookfair. Perhaps this is being a little bit picky, but it is the Anarchist Bookfair that takes place in London, for all the reasons that you have listed.

Er, yeah thus making the *London* anarchist bookfair.

But as everyone else is neg about this, I'll just say that meeting up with people like Mr Ray who respond to posts with "whinging shit" comments would not exactly inspire me with glee. So I'll say no too.

That's funny cos Ray always used to have a go at me for being a grumpy cunt, and he always makes a special effort to be nice to everyone!

 

[gurrier]

Back into my box, then.

That was a productive chat, eh?

Lesson one of anarchist politics: grow a thick skin. You will get shit in proportion to the amount of things you actually do. As long as you are confident in your politics and know why you are doing things, the sniping doesn't make much difference. You aren't going to let a bit of moaning stop you doing revolutionary work now are you?

Some ideas for this sort of conference
* put together a draft statement agreed by various groups / well known individuals designed to define the basic politics that the conference is based upon. (filters out the primos/nutters)

* concentrate on holding meetings on areas where there is some activity/analysis in common happening around the country and look to explore ways of collaborating on those areas where there is agreement.

* Focus on the practical (national days of action, common campaigns, etc) (loose gatherings including people who have well known and longstanding theoretical quarrels between themselves aren't that useful imho)

* Leave lots of time for socialising.

* try to hold some sort of demo/direct action during the conference.

These factors have worked to a greater or lesser extent with the grassroots gatherings in Ireland and, although that network is less purely anarchist than what you might be aiming for, there's no reason that the approach wouldn't be also useful for more specifically anarchist conferences.

 

[kropotkin]

I'd love there to be a merger of the federations, and the forming of a vibrant federation that most of the local class-struggle groups could affiliate to. The fact remains that we aren't at a stage where that can happen. I'm all for working towards that moment as part of the other stuff we are doing- it will only happen through there being a de facto single fed emerging from us all working on the same struggles anyway.

Jumping the gun would, I'm afraid, just waste time and resources without actually accomplishing anything.

 

[Solidarnosc]

if there were a national anarchist conference, you'd need a decent size of venue. but in common with some others here, i think it's a bit of a non-starter.

Yes but there are venues which are just as big which come a lot cheaper than Manchester Town Hall. Plus it would be heavily ironic to have an anarchist conference in the seat of Manchester City Council of all places.

 

[Jonezy]

I usually watch these conversations unravel from a far but thought I'd put my hand up.

Which groups are you looking to exclude from this and who is to decide the criteria on whether they are suitable or not?

Would it be a good idea to mobilise a consensus regarding opinion and feeling about this, consult as many as possible who may sympathise and feel akin with the cause of eliminating oppression in all forms in our society? I mean, I imagine key groups will run ahead with something but it would be great to see the means reflecting the virtues of the ends as deeply possible. Awareness raising is, I imagine, a massive part of this, not just alerting Anarchists to the idea, but also sharing and exposing the ideals and perspectives of Anarchism with as many people as possible.

Maybe it should be held somewhere in the centre so that no-one is inconvenienced excessively more than anyone else.

Or maybe numerous meetings could be held on the same date at the local level, all following a pre-agreed agenda or working with loose objectives. Then minutes and reports could provide a more detailed feel of what's being said, which could lead to a national gathering that might tour each region throughout a period of time.

I reckon we should all say our piece.

Shouldn't just say fuck it though eh. The more people that chuck in the towel the worse shit gets for everyone.

I dont know any Anarchists in Derby though, not a single sole

 

[Kidda]

The London centric thing does get to me a bit too.
Cant we treck somewhere nicer.

I like the idea of a national @ conference, but lets face it, we'd spend 6 hours arguing over what to call ourselves, whether we should use wavy hand signals, and whether we're allowed to have cows milk in the room

Afaik Brum would be horribly difficult to organise as there are very few people apart from West Mids who would be available locally to organise it all (and west mids are neither a big group nor an inactive one)

and after that AYN gathering........

 

[In Bloom]

It's never going to work.

We can't even agree who is or isn't an anarchist, we'd spend most of the time arguing about who is or isn't being authoritarian by asking Monty Fisk-Williams from the Eton anarchist society to put out his fag. Then we'd get pissed and celebrate how well it all went.

Lets face it, we're shit

 

[snooch]

well! it's been a long time since one of my threads pulled off two pages!

to be honest i wasn't expected much of a response to the idea, the fact that you've all spent the time to constructively discuss the point tells me that the tide does indeed seem to be shifting back in blighty. i know for a fact that if i had written the same thread title a couple of years back it would be on one of the back pages of the board.

Or maybe numerous meetings could be held on the same date at the local level, all following a pre-agreed agenda or working with loose objectives. Then minutes and reports could provide a more detailed feel of what's being said, which could lead to a national gathering that might tour each region throughout a period of time

.

i really think jonezy has a good suggestion here. my awesome experience with the CAN crew was a time spent (among many other things!) travelling around the country meeting various other DA anarcho groups and making contacts that would otherwise have not been made.
it's a suprisingly easy thing to do, the names and actions of people you read about on the internet and in the journals almost always turn out to be very right-on, nice folk - it's just a case of

1: having the resources to travel around your local region
2: actually being willing to say 'hello'

on a national level, maybe all bookfair's, and large sceduled @ events from 2006 should distribute flyers naming a date and asking people to reach out to their local area's. the date would be for the first get together of local branches. Dates for a national meeting; including the venue, the numbers, what's to be discussed etc, can then be suggested there.
each meetings' minutes can then be distributed over the net and we would have the opportunity between our own groups to iron out some general consensus through the notes taken...

it's incredibly long winded, but for something that seems so simple on paper to actually work needs alot of patience and common-sense thinking. points 1 and 2 i think hold a large part to the success of such a project.

i can see it happening other the course of the next two years, only if people were willing to start the ball rolling pretty much now.

 

[Wilf]

Well, here comes some hopeless naivety:

Seems all of this is a bit too negative. All the stuff about 'who should come' - just ignore it. Write a genearl statement of aims (as someone has said), make sure that trots, rightwing libertarians and the like can't get in - and then get on with it.

Seems to me this is a good time to hold something along these lines. The experience of the g8 (and I mean the actions, the camp etc. - ain't getting into the nature of Dissent or the pre-g8 period) was actually pretty positive. Suggested that on the ground anarchists of all stripes can actually agree on a lot of things.

Main thing would be the purpose of the conference. Why does it have to be about creating a single federation? would be nice if that could happen - again, as has been said, to set up something that local groups could affiliate to. However it isn't going to happen - and would set the thing up to fail. Why not have a series of sessions on specific topics - direct action, orgainsing, networking etc etc. ... and go into these with an attitude of spontaneity. Don't set a target for them - a hurdle which they might not achieve - rather, see what emerges. If common ground can be found - to establish less ambitious links around specific purposes, thats good enough at the moment isn't it? Also, the idea of sharing skills, experiences and lessons learned would be possible.

Venue: not really worried to be honest. Key thing would of course be to find some ppl to do it.

 

[rednblack]

i think a series of conferences around particular issues would be more useful - workplace organising, anti fascism, pro freedom etc...we've already had a community based one, though another wouldnt go amiss of course

 

[Wilf]

i think a series of conferences around particular issues would be more useful - workplace organising, anti fascism, pro freedom etc...we've already had a community based one, though another wouldnt go amiss of course

Agree with that. Anything set up with grand aims, calling itself a 'national confernece', inviting 'official delegates' would be almost certainly as bad as has been suggested in this thread. On the other hand, something with practical aims might have a chance of achieving something.

 

[Random]

i think a series of conferences around particular issues would be more useful - workplace organising, anti fascism, pro freedom etc...we've already had a community based one, though another wouldnt go amiss of course

Yes, I agree with this. Personally I'd like to see another community organising gathering -- but we seem to have rather dropped the ball on that one

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Would it be a lib com gathering or an 'anarchist ' gathering

 

[catch]

I reckon we should sort out the stuff we said we'd do after the CAG, then do another Community Action Gathering. Then a Workplace Action franchise after that.

They at least have the chance in resulting in some useful activity rather than the constant reorganisation of much the same people.

 

[hibee]

A "national anarchist conference"? Would that be a conference of the "National Anarchists" of the splendidly-named Mr Troy Southgate?

 

[Random]

They at least have the chance in resulting in some useful activity rather than the constant reorganisation of much the same people.

Well they do if actual activity results. I know some people criticised Dissent! gatherings for the fact that people failed to complete tasks they'd taken on, but this problem seems to be, in fact, part of the UK libertarian movement generally.

So far I've not seen anything come out of the CAG

 

[Chuck Wilson]

I am a little worried about the turn out for this conference by what some of you are saying and one suggestion is that we invite a big name speaker on anarchism ,say for example Pat Stack, to boost up the numbers.

 

[catch]

Well they do if actual activity results. I know some people criticised Dissent! gatherings for the fact that people failed to complete tasks they'd taken on, but this problem seems to be, in fact, part of the UK libertarian movement generally.

So far I've not seen anything come out of the CAG

In terms of CAG organisation stuff no, but several people seemed like they'd be taking useful stuff home from it - it had some purpose in itself in terms of discussion/education/information sharing.

National Anarchist Conference > to me it'd be a big meeting about meetings.

 

[Rob Ray]

OF COURSE if you live in London, London seems like the obvious place.

But I don't live in London, it's 3 bloody hours on a Sunday to get to the place from where I live, and costs me 20-30 quid a time. If I was being lazy I'd surely insist on it being in Ipswich? But sadly, that's not practical, and the only existing support network to make it easier would be the small but perfectly formed Ipswich anarchists - sadly we don't have those kinds of resources.

It is the obviousness of it that is irritating to the rest of us who have to trek up to attend. Clearly the London Anarchist Bookfair wouldn't be held in Chester, but I was talking about a different bookfair, the annual one that doesn't have the word "London" in its title.

bh I think you're spitting hairs here, no-one has pretended, least of all the London bookfair organisers, that they are the sole bookfair in the UK, or even representative of the entire 'movement'. There is one in Manchester, another in Norwich, as I said earlier. Afaik they called themselves the Anarchist Bookfair because at the time, they were the only one around, not because of some weird predeliction for pissing off the rest of the country.

2nd point of fact: I've already organised bookstalls as part of larger CAN events, so perhaps you should take your pious sermonising somewhere else? ("perhaps you should put on your own bookfair? ") From such small acorns - with the help of our London colleagues, of course - do great oaks blah de blah...

Well done. Would you like to host it? Truely we haven't put on a bookfair in Ipswich (film showings, yes), but as I said we don't have the time, and there's two within striking distance of us already so why would we need to?

3rd point of fact: I wasn't whinging. Christ, are you even interested in having a civil discussion, or is this just trolling keyboardjockery? If it is I'll waste my time elsewhere, ta. I made a number of suggestions, all of which you seem to have ignored in your rush to be rude.

Yes. You were. Otherwise I wouldn't have commented. You slagged off the organisers of the bookfair, who voluntarily put months of work into organising it, for being too 'lazy' to up sticks from where they live and move the entire fucking thing closer to you, regardless, presumably, of their jobs, families etc. You slagged me off (despite your rather silly disclaimer) for even mentioning the London bookfair, then refused to offer any other suggestions while berating me, a Suffolk lad, of being too London-centric.

Now I agree totally with the premise that London anarchs are quite often lazy, self-centred, arrogant and bad company, but in all honesty, I think it IS whinging to expect 'the mountain to move', and I think it is whinging to attack me for making a suggestion that we use what is currently probably the best resource on offer simply because it's based in London.

<intended in a helpful, comradely, constructive criticism sort of a way...> did you miss the strapline Rob?

No I didn't miss it, but tbh it read very much like when people say 'I don't want to sound insulting' just before they tell you you're fat.

 

[mk12]

I am a little worried about the turn out for this conference by what some of you are saying and one suggestion is that we invite a big name speaker on anarchism ,say for example Pat Stack, to boost up the numbers.

Pat Stack is allergic to wood, apparently. So he couldn't stomach being surrounded by so many artisans and craftsmen i'm afraid. You'll have to find someone else.

 

[kropotkin]

give up the SWP matt, you are too good for them.

 

[Col_Buendia]

to Rob

Thank you for toning down the abuse level, and for taking the time to offer a slightly more reasonable response.

<snip> Well done. Would you like to host it? Truely we haven't put on a bookfair in Ipswich (film showings, yes), but as I said we don't have the time, and there's two within striking distance of us already so why would we need to?

Yes. You were. Otherwise I wouldn't have commented. You slagged off the organisers of the bookfair, who voluntarily put months of work into organising it, for being too 'lazy' to up sticks from where they live and move the entire fucking thing closer to you, regardless, presumably, of their jobs, families etc. You slagged me off (despite your rather silly disclaimer) for even mentioning the London bookfair, then refused to offer any other suggestions while berating me, a Suffolk lad, of being too London-centric.

Permit me to nitpick a moment longer. Not (obviously) being a member of any clique, I don't actually know who the organisers of the London bookfair are. On reviewing the thread I can't see anyone identifying themselves as a London bookfair organiser, and certainly not prior to my 1st post. So in all honesty I'd like to see you show me where I was slagging these organisers off. I was reacting to your original post, nothing to do with the bookfair organisers (are you one? you seem to be talking more about activities in Ipswich, so I presume not...), who seem on my limited experience of the bookfair to do a marvellous job.

(Oh, btw, thank you so much for your congratulations. Really, you are too kind. I'd love to help host a rotating regional bookfair, could you offer any support? Will you be along to meet "national" comrades/colleagues/like-minded people?)

Now I agree totally with the premise that London anarchs are quite often lazy, self-centred, arrogant and bad company, but in all honesty, I think it IS whinging to expect 'the mountain to move', and I think it is whinging to attack me for making a suggestion that we use what is currently probably the best resource on offer simply because it's based in London.

And I never suggested they should move the bookfair closer to me, you really should read the posts a little more closely before rushing in to reply to them. I suggested something like a rotating bookfair, which eventually would be a little closer to all of us, and (god forbid) we'd all be a little closer to each other.

Anyway, I wasn't interested in starting a bunfight, the general idea fascinates me and I'd be delighted to put time into it. As regards your suggestion that a WSF style doc be drawn up first, I'd go back to my earlier point and suggest that imo a great amount of legwork would have to be done beforehand, travelling and meeting people, and trying to draw together everyone's differing expectations of what could come out of something like this before starting to put things down on paper.

It's a chicken and an egg thing, innit? Of course it's not going to happen cos everyone knows it's a non-starter of an idea.... just until a couple of bods put the time and effort into starting some, any, ball rolling, and then imaginative sparks start to fly (and the snipers come out of the woodwork).

-> Catch: of course it would be a meeting about meetings, that's how we organise, isn't it? At least down here in Cardiff we haven't yet figured out how to organise telepathically, so we have meetings.

 

[snooch]

in an attempt to save what a reckon is a sound thread:

it all seems to be very positive, yes there are many, many pitfalls

4thwrite wrote:

Seems all of this is a bit too negative. All the stuff about 'who should come' - just ignore it. Write a genearl statement of aims (as someone has said), make sure that trots, rightwing libertarians and the like can't get in - and then get on with it.

Seems to me this is a good time to hold something along these lines. The experience of the g8 (and I mean the actions, the camp etc. - ain't getting into the nature of Dissent or the pre-g8 period) was actually pretty positive. Suggested that on the ground anarchists of all stripes can actually agree on a lot of things.

Main thing would be the purpose of the conference. Why does it have to be about creating a single federation? would be nice if that could happen - again, as has been said, to set up something that local groups could affiliate to. However it isn't going to happen - and would set the thing up to fail. Why not have a series of sessions on specific topics - direct action, orgainsing, networking etc etc. ... and go into these with an attitude of spontaneity. Don't set a target for them - a hurdle which they might not achieve - rather, see what emerges. If common ground can be found - to establish less ambitious links around specific purposes, thats good enough at the moment isn't it? Also, the idea of sharing skills, experiences and lessons learned would be possible.

Venue: not really worried to be honest. Key thing would of course be to find some ppl to do it.

i reckon this is exactly the point. it's upto individuals to take the idea by the balls and get on with it. from my original thread starter, there is an international demand for an alternative to the two current options (capitalist/soviet communist) and surely the time is quickly ripening for anarchism to make a mark on the British conscious?

it's time for peeps to actually get up and start saying hello to the folk who have similair ideas and from there who know's!?!!