Throw Skype overboard...

[mauvais]

Well, of course it communicates with the net all the time on loads of ports, because it's peer to peer. It uses your bandwidth when idle because that's inherently how it works, and how your own calls get routed. The merits are arguable but that's what it does, clear as day.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

I did read it and I understood enough, even though I am not an IT pro and couldn't do what those two guys have done and don't understand the whole thing in detail, cryptography, maths and all...

However, I will take their word over Boris' and Jaed's [etc.] on this one, for a very simple reason: they - as you seem to be pointing out - have done a lot of good work and backed it up with facts in the public arena, so it's all verifiable and - noone denied any of it so far, to the best of my information...

So, give credit where credit is due, I say... Not very difficult for me...

Correct noone is denying what those two guys have done. It is patently clear that you don't understand it. It's good you have an enthusiasm for the subject. Just not too sure you grasp the finer technical details and to make assertions based on your flimsy knowledge is irresponsible. kthnx

 

[Jonti]

gorski, those words from Boris are friendly, warm and encouraging.

(i just thought i should mention that in case, well, you know, well, i just felt i should mention it)

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

gorski, those words from Boris are friendly, warm and encouraging.

(i just thought i should mention that in case, well, you know, well, i just felt i should mention it)

 

[gorski]

Now, that's what I call not seeing the wood for the trees... And it comes with overconfidence in terms of one's tech capabilities and then... Oh, well......

Get a grip!!!

It's not about the finer technical details - not necessary at all - it's about an underhand tactics, using your PC and your bandwiidth and so forth!!!

Now, prove me wrong on the essential points I ALREADY mentioned! Then I'll take my hat off!!

Prices to begin with!!! Then and only then will you "understand" my argument and stop posturing...

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Now, prove me wrong on the essential points I ALREADY mentioned! Then I'll take my hat off!!

)

search the pdf for the keyword spyware.

And btw

http://support.skype.com/index.php?_a=knowledgebase&_j=subcat&_i=8

oh and please post the results of the testing you and your hacker mates did.

 

[gorski]

You really can't see the wood for the trees, m8! Leave the technology bit for the moment, please... and anwer the Q about the price, to begin with!

 

[mauvais]

It's not about the finer technical details - not necessary at all - it's about an underhand tactics, using your PC and your bandwiidth and so forth!!!

Yes it is! It's like complaining that Bittorrent clients upload as well as download. If you're so au fait with security, why did you agree to it?

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Prices to begin with!!! Then and only then will you "understand" my argument and stop posturing...

you're back tracking now. The price is superfluos to your original assertion that it is full of spyware. That is why you offered alternatives was it not.
For what it's worth it's free to landlines in lots of countries, prices looking similar (1Euro cent per minute), however it wasn't that i was arguing against. It's your original claim you tested and found this. You have offered no evidence of this.

It's not about the finer technical details - not necessary at all - it's about an underhand tactics, using your PC and your bandwiidth and so forth!!!

we covered this. It's peer to peer protocol, it will also be covered in the license agreement.

And it comes with overconfidence in terms of one's tech capabilities and then

not over confidence at all. In all humbleness I will probably be attending more events this year where I shall be speaking with some of the guys from the blackhatsnetwork event whose link you posted in your first post. I already know a couple of them. (/namedropping. *wince).

Then and only then will you "understand" my argument and stop posturing

I already put my points to your argument. You have chosen to ignore mine and others points to your "argument".
But if you like, keep waffling, it's entertaining.

 

[Radar]

the PDF is worth a read, it offers a dissection of how the protocol works and some security threats that could be associated with that.

Yes, it was an interesting read. Admittedly more aimed at the corporate IT bod, but interesting all the same.

So Boris, when are you and gorski getting a room ?? I think you've pulled

 

[gorski]

Mauvais, no it isn't just about that! And I didn't agree to it, which is why I stopped it immediately and removed it from my PC! You see, some of us are NOT so gullible and mugs... I, for one, am NOT a masochist, ta very muchly!

Did you see Skype when it came out? I did! Tested it! Did it publish/make clear anywhere, saying anything about using your PC as a supernod and opening many ports all the time, your PC's resources, your bandwidth etc.? Is it OK to sell a product and not explain clearly to all who aren't necessarily technically/IT educated what they're getting into? That is why we have the state, you know: to legislate against the underhand wankers, exploitative twats and downright sociopaths... [Not that I am saying they are - the principle is at stake here!]

And if that gets out, as it were, should we simply shut up and take it?

Some things are just intolerable.... Unless you're English, I suppose... [just a bitta lighthearted foon, you know...]

you're back tracking now. The price is superfluos to your original assertion that it is full of spyware. That is why you offered alternatives was it not.

No it is not! This is all you, your interpretation, you putting an accent more here than there, depending on what YOU think was more important [and I have my suspicion why you did that ]!!

You kept ignoring all the other points, interestingly enough, and now YOU are the one moaning about me not responding to the one point you keep raising... Swell!! The cheek...

I am asking you once again - and that is the last I will say on this matter - if I am calling PC2landline in, say, Croatia or Ireland how much does it cost with VoIPDiscount and how much with Skype?

Others mentioned just how much it used their monthly bandwidth allowances or their PC resources. Is that irrelevant, also - just so you can posture some more, so we all know who da boss??

For what it's worth it's free to landlines in lots of countries, prices looking similar (1Euro cent per minute), however it wasn't that i was arguing against. It's your original claim you tested and found this. You have offered no evidence of this.

Utter rubbish! Calls to Ireland are free, for instance, with VoIP Discount but not with Skype! Calls to Croatia are 2 to almost 3 times as expensive with Skype [the prices vary] and so forth! You're stuck, m8... Nothing similar about that!

Look at this: "Free* calls (landlines only)

Argentina
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Canada
Chile
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Gibraltar
Greece
Hong Kong (+mobile)
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Japan
Liechtenstein
Luxembourg
Malaysia
Monaco
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Panama
Poland
Portugal
Puerto Rico (mobile)
Russian Federation
Singapore (+mobile)
Slovenia
South Korea
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
Thailand (+mobile)
United Kingdom
United States (+mobile)

SMS to over 60 countries for 1c per message." Etc.

That's VoIP Discount for you. For instance. There are even cheaper guys around!

Skype? Ahem... "Call the US, UK and over 20 other destinations for only 1.4p per minute." Don't forget this, btw: "*All SkypeOut calls (except those made through the Skype Unlimited Calling plan) are subject to a connection fee ranging from US$0.00 to US$0.039 (excluding VAT)." Oh, and no emergency calls with Skype, m8y...

The attitude of that company was quite clear to many of us from the start and some of us simply stopped using it.... Competition in such an environment is good, after all, as one can make an informed decision, if only one tries... I did try and didn't like anything I listed, not one little bit about all the points raised... Hence, moved on...

I rest my case...

 

[chio]

I really don't get why some people get so het up and evangelistic about their choice of technology. I use what works best for me, but I don't scream and shout about it or try and ram it down everyone else's throats. (For what it's worth, I use one of those 0844 numbers for calling abroad; works on a normal landline and is half a p a minute.)

 

[gorski]

Who's evangelical about anything? How do you jump to these conclusions in a heartbeat, ffs?!?

Blimey!

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

"And I didn't agree to it, which is why I stopped it immediately and removed it from my PC! "



So how did you test it if you didn't agree to the T&C's?

Did you see Skype when it came out? I did! Tested it! Did it publish/make clear anywhere, saying anything about using your PC as a supernod and opening many ports all the time, your PC's resources, your bandwidth etc.?

Oh you did test it, I forgot. With your hacker mates. BUt you can't tell me what you found.

Is it OK to sell a product and not explain clearly to all who aren't necessarily technically/IT educated what they're getting into?

Well someone sold you a computer.

And Microsoft ARE the biggest software company in the world.
You still never answered my point about the constant traffic to Akamai technologies with MSN.

Some things are just intolerable.... Unless you're English, I suppose... [just a bitta lighthearted foon, you know...]

What the fuck has this to do with the price of fish?

No it is not! This is all you, your interpretation, you putting an accent more here than there, depending on what YOU think was more important [and I have my suspicion why you did that ]!!

You kept ignoring all the other points, interestingly enough, and now YOU are the one moaning about me not responding to the one point you keep raising... Swell!! The cheek...

Wibble.

I am asking you once again - and that is the last I will say on this matter - if I am calling PC2landline in, say, Croatia or Ireland how much does it cost with VoIPDiscount and how much with Skype?

Others mentioned just how much it used their monthly bandwidth allowances or their PC resources. Is that irrelevant, also - just so you can posture some more, so we all know who da boss??



Utter rubbish! Calls to Ireland are free, for instance, with VoIP Discount but not with Skype! Calls to Croatia are 2 to almost 3 times as expensive with Skype [the prices vary] and so forth! You're stuck, m8... Nothing similar about that!

Look at this: "Free* calls (landlines only)
...........

/Pointless country list removed.

...........
SMS to over 60 countries for 1c per message." Etc.

That's VoIP Discount for you. For instance. There are even cheaper guys around!

Skype? Ahem... "Call the US, UK and over 20 other destinations for only 1.4p per minute." Don't forget this, btw: "*All SkypeOut calls (except those made through the Skype Unlimited Calling plan) are subject to a connection fee ranging from US$0.00 to US$0.039 (excluding VAT)." Oh, and no emergency calls with Skype, m8y...

The attitude of that company was quite clear to many of us from the start and some of us simply stopped using it.... Competition in such an environment is good, after all, as one can make an informed decision, if only one tries... I did try and didn't like anything I listed, not one little bit about all the points raised... Hence, moved on...

I rest my case...

I don't give a flying fuck about the price. I only answered because of the false asserions you were making with nothing to back up those claims and without a full understanding of why you may have seen whatever was occuring on your computer. Skype is cheap enough for me and probably most people. It supports video, lots of people are familiar with the interface, it allows my technoilliterate old man to contact his sister in Canada. For most people it's a good program.
I have better things to do than stand up for a VoIP company which is what you seem to think I am doing, you made some claims which were false and you got picked up on it, I sure there are cheaper programs. You seem to have found one. Congratulations.
I just don't like bullshit and can spot it a mile off.

Have a great day. /BS

 

[jæd]

I don't give a flying fuck about the price. I only answered because of the false asserions you were making with nothing to back up those claims and without a full understanding of why you may have seen whatever was occuring on your computer. Skype is cheap enough for me and probably most people. It supports video, lots of people are familiar with the interface, it allows my technoilliterate old man to contact his sister in Canada. For the most it's a good program.

It seems to be a mostly Windows thing (ie Linux + Mac clients not 100% there yet) so if I were concerned about security I'd worry about that first. Though interesting that some telcos have banned it because it doesn't allow easy wiretapping. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype )

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Yeah, the encryption is actually pretty good it seems. The PDF link covers some of that and actually praises the implementation of private/public key exchange.
Not sure about it been solely windows any more. Works great on my Mac, including video, not used it on any of my linux boxes purely for the fact i only have an isight for the mac.

 

[mauvais]

http://www.skype.com/company/legal/eula/index.html

Article 4 Utilization of Your computer

4.1 Utilization of Your computer. You hereby acknowledge that the Skype Software may utilize the processor and bandwidth of the computer (or other applicable device) You are utilizing, for the limited purpose of facilitating the communication between Skype Software users.

and if that's not enough for you:

http://web.archive.org/web/20041009162759/http://www.skype.com/company/legal/eula/index.html

3. Permission to utilize.

In order to receive the benefits provided by the Skype Software, you hereby grant permission for the Skype Software to utilize the processor and bandwidth of your computer for the limited purpose of facilitating the communication between other Skype Software users. You understand that the Skype Software will protect the privacy and integrity of your computer resources and communication and ensure the unobtrusive utilization of your computer resources to the greatest extent possible.

So remind us - how did you not agree to it?

 

[gorski]

So how did you test it if you didn't agree to the T&C's?

You lot must be joking!! Reading every "agreement" shite I install in detail? Crikey, you need to get out sometimes...

Well someone sold you a computer.

"Presumptions is the mother of all fookups!" Keep making a fool of yourself - arrogance does tend to open people up this sorta thang...

Nope, a friend of mine helped me put it together from scratch, no OS... [Just how presumptuous can you get??? ]

I don't give a flying fuck about the price.

Similar lines were uttered many a time by the likes of Gates, Mierdoch and alike... Doesn't work with me and 99.999999% of humanity - rethink is in order, m8! [What a boaster!! Or worse...]

I just don't like bullshit and can spot it a mile off.

Except, of course, when it's uttered by yourself, as seen above... But then again most people have that difficulty... Turning a finger inwards is the most difficult thing on Earth...

 

[Iam]

He said, having failed to do exactly that over and over and over again.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

dude. you're crazy. enjoy.

 

[gorski]

Funny that, coming from you... But I am trying, thanx!!

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Funny that, coming from you... But I am trying, thanx!!

been a pleasure gorski. good luck with the linux.

 

[gorski]

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

not seeing the connection there.

 

[gorski]

I bloody overloaded the partition with updates for my BLAG Linux! It can't boot now...

Which gives me the opportunity not to do it wrongly this time [when I redo it, without the Server option and just the essentials, write it all down and help others maybe... ]