"Thousands" of managers to be made redundant in the NHS

[SpookyFrank]

Yeah, an anecdote from Mrs Frank about some of her management having the "administrative acumen of a toddler and all the people skills of a tapeworm" is a great place to start making political decisions and judgements about the structure of the NHS. If you also keep socking it to the man moaning about lazy NHS workers it'll all get sorted even quicker.

Quicker than you blaming feckless patients for their inability to access medical care at any rate.

 

[seeformiles]

I remember during Covid when it was all hands to the pump on the frontline. All sorts of businesses were offering discounts to NHS staff. Which created much hilarity on the wards with the nurses apparently as all those NHS lanyards suddenly came out amongst the office staff, and I'm sure many of them lapped up the applause and banging of pots to go with it.

Sack loads of them, give the money to those who deserve it. Maybe even give them things like free parking, at the moment they have to pay to park in hospital carparks...? I dunno.. maybe even a subsided lunch, if not a free one, instead of expecting them to bring their own or pay the exorbitant prices at the hospital cafes.

Yep. A friend of ours who works in accounts used her NHS lanyard to get all manner of discounts/queue jumping despite never having been (or was ever likely to be) anywhere near a “hot ward”. Bad form really

 

[Pickman's model]

Im really curious what NHS workers in particular here think of this.

Wes Streeting to axe thousands of jobs at NHS England after ousting of chief executive

NHS staff fear power grab by health department as health secretary looks to shrink body due to ‘duplication’ of roles

www.theguardian.com

Obviously Wes Streeting = bad
But then again middle management also often = bad

Might be too early to comment yet...anyone have more insight?

Senior management are always bad

 

[Ax^]

It's more NHS England staff I think rather than hospital/other management staff.

And yes admin and receptionist staff work a fucking hard job, they're not sitting there playing Wordle when you see them on computers ffs. I work NHS clinical but my job wouldn't be possible without a whole raft of staff that keep things running, and what people sometimes belittle by calling just admin or management.

Although nice to see some people that consider themselves leftists of some ilk using it as a chance for raging against lazy NHS workers.

just to clarify i was not slagging of NHS workers quite the opposite

it years of pissing money about on it systems and new layers of management to try to somehow save money and somehow generate revenue that is causing the problem with the nhs
the workers themselves are lovely

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Quicker than you blaming feckless patients for their inability to access medical care at any rate.

Nobody has blamed the patients, have they? But blaming low-paid, low status admin and reception staff is a low blow.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I don't think of people as being 'low status' tbh. I take people as I find them. I have often found NHS admin staff to be wilfully inept and rude. Do I think that applies to all NHS admin staff? No. Do I blame them for the overall crisis in the NHS? No. Do I think that crisis is a valid excuse for anyone who does a shit job? No.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Nurses wouldn't be able to do their jobs without admin. Admin are worth their weight in gold.

Yes absolutely, and when you’ve got a clinical job that hasn’t been allocated sufficient admin, you really know it. The amount of time I’ve wasted in certain roles because my profession often gets overlooked for needing admin support in acute hospitals.

 

[ska invita]

Can we leave this now please? There's tens of thousands of NHS staff, some will be a bit crap by pure percentage, and that goes for porters, nurses, admin, doctors, surgeons, middle or upper management.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Yep. A friend of ours who works in accounts used her NHS lanyard to get all manner of discounts/queue jumping despite never having been (or was ever likely to be) anywhere near a “hot ward”. Bad form really

COVID was still pretty challenging for a lot of NHS staff whether they were working directly on the COVID wards or not. I wouldn’t have wanted to have been a bed manager for example. Whilst those on the front of the front line had it worst, the strain didn’t stop by those big double doors.

 

[seeformiles]

COVID was still pretty challenging for a lot of NHS staff whether they were working directly on the COVID wards or not. I wouldn’t have wanted to have been a bed manager for example. Whilst those on the front of the front line had it worst, the strain didn’t stop by those big double doors.

Indeed it was. However I have friends who worked hot wards throughout while this friend worked from home for the duration. They had none of the tiring shifts or risk yet still reaped the benefits so I still call fraud. A bit of misrepresentation don’t you think?

 

[LDC]

COVID was still pretty challenging for a lot of NHS staff whether they were working directly on the COVID wards or not. I wouldn’t have wanted to have been a bed manager for example. Whilst those on the front of the front line had it worst, the strain didn’t stop by those big double doors.

Yeah exactly, let's stop this clinical/other staff divide or some weird (largely imagined and likely incorrect) Covid hierarchy of work risk please, it does nobody any good and plenty some harm. I think I had it much easier during Covid than loads of 'non-clinical' staff I knew of.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

The other thing to mention is that when sometimes when you do come across a service with a fairly high percentage of disengaged workers, it can be because they’re totally burned out from running on empty for too long. Not saying that to excuse such behaviours, just offering a bit of context.

 

[RevolutionSound]

Indeed it was. However I have friends who worked hot wards throughout while this friend worked from home for the duration. They had none of the tiring shifts or risk yet still reaped the benefits so I still call fraud. A bit of misrepresentation don’t you think?

Fraud? Lol, get a grip man.

 

[seeformiles]

Fraud? Lol, get a grip man.

What? Pretending you’re at the front line of care while sat at home nowhere near the action? Yes, I do.

 

[PR1Berske]

Indeed it was. However I have friends who worked hot wards throughout while this friend worked from home for the duration. They had none of the tiring shifts or risk yet still reaped the benefits so I still call fraud. A bit of misrepresentation don’t you think?

Fraud? Give over.

Reception staff, canteen staff, medical records staff, estates etc, all of whom are Band 2 at my Trust and likely in others, at the edge of minimum wage, couldn't work from home during Covid. We had to visit wards to collect patient records because management took too long to decide whether that was dangerous or not. With a handful of boxes of masks because it took so long to convince those higher up that it might be necessary for us to wear them.

So if my decision to get 5% off a burger because I'm staff is fraud, I'll let Nick Leeson know so he can add it to his next book.

 

[RevolutionSound]

What? Pretending you’re at the front line of care while sat at home nowhere near the action? Yes, I do.

Get a grip.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Indeed it was. However I have friends who worked hot wards throughout while this friend worked from home for the duration. They had none of the tiring shifts or risk yet still reaped the benefits so I still call fraud. A bit of misrepresentation don’t you think?

Fraud? The benefits weren’t all that great iirc. If you want to say a NHS worker who worked from home is fraudulent by claiming a 10% discount then maybe you need to rethink your priorities.

And I don’t know the circumstances of that person you mention but you could still definitely be an overworked key worker from home. <details of various overwhelming demands as MH worker snipped>

 

[Elpenor]

I don’t work in the NHS but some of the anti-worker and anti public sector posts on this thread are disappointing.

As for whether someone gets a discount or whatever, and they’re not deserving enough if they’re not clinical staff where’s the fucking solidarity? This feels like a shallow attempt to divide workers over something as trivial as a third party discount.

I do know that there have been years of below inflation pay settlements so the people being beaten down in this thread have basically been getting poorer each year while doing a job that gets harder as resources are stretched thinner. I know this as that’s exactly what’s happened in my part of the public sector.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Mental health did NOT have an easy time during the pandemic, even if technically many were working at home.

 

[seeformiles]

Fraud? Give over.

Reception staff, canteen staff, medical records staff, estates etc, all of whom are Band 2 at my Trust and likely in others, at the edge of minimum wage, couldn't work from home during Covid. We had to visit wards to collect patient records because management took too long to decide whether that was dangerous or not. With a handful of boxes of masks because it took so long to convince those higher up that it might be necessary for us to wear them.

So if my decision to get 5% off a burger because I'm staff is fraud, I'll let Nick Leeson know so he can add it to his next book.

I’m not talking about those workers at all - as well you know. I’m talking about my friend and others like her whose role was nowhere near the front line who used their NHS lanyard to their advantage during the pandemic. I have nothing but respect for those who were physically present throughout but nothing but disgust for those who abused it.

 

[RevolutionSound]

I’m not talking about those workers at all - as well you know. I’m talking about my friend and others like her whose role was nowhere near the front line who used their NHS lanyard to their advantage during the pandemic. I have nothing but respect for those who were physically present throughout but nothing but disgust for those who abused it.

You're being a dick.

 

[PR1Berske]

Wes Streeting inadvertently causing a leftist forum to fight amongst themselves between "worthy" and "unworthy" staff. Classic Dom.

 

[seeformiles]

You're being a dick.

I think you’re apologising for some of those who shamelessly took the piss but so be it.

 

[RevolutionSound]

I think you’re apologising for some of those who shamelessly took the piss but so be it.

No, you're being a massive dickhead.

 

[Red Cat]

I think the point is there is nothing special about NHS staff, they are just ordinary humans and they do shit things too, and not always because of complex organisational pressures and dynamics. Not sure why its coming up here though in such a divisive way.

 

[seeformiles]

No, you're being a massive dickhead.

Oh well - so be it.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I think the point is there is nothing special about NHS staff, they are just ordinary humans and they do shit things too, and not always because of complex organisational pressures and dynamics. Not sure why it’s coming up here though in such a divisive way.

Because they sometimes get a 10% discount apparently.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

seeformiles are you aware that on top of the COVID wards, a lot of NHS services had to keep on running with reduced staffing and often increased demand? I think there were very few kicking back with their feet up.

I expect that even fully non patient facing NHSE staff were running around like headless chickens desperately trying to do whatever they could.

 

[xenon]

The one out of every four who does all the actual work is, granted.

I don’t think it’s a low-level admin causing this. They are just as much tied up with it bureaucracy. And I’ve got no beef with the front of house staff as it were. But fuck me the admin is atrocious. That we don’t have that record oh it must be this person here is a phone number that is never answered and doesn’t even connect to the right department.

 

[xenon]

I mean as someone who’s looked at NHS low low admin job descriptions for purposes of needing a job. I want the moon and everything else. I don’t think it’s those people that I’m wasting your time and money