This Is England
- Thread starter tumantha
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Onket
Je suis [CONTENT REMOVED]
It's not a brilliant film, but it is a good film. It certainly isn't 'totally dull'.
The lastest other thread about it- http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=251981&highlight=england
The lastest other thread about it- http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=251981&highlight=england
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
this might be it.
the acting in meadows' films is unlike anything i think i've seen on film - including loach/leigh. it's epitomised by considine's half-swallowed east mids drawl - there are some accents you hardly ever hear (Fens, is another), partly because the diction is really indistinct. the performances meadows gets are a strata of realism beyond anythiing eles - which sometimes gives scenes an awkward pace, or makes significant dialogue under delivered.
but that isn't bad acting. that's truthful - and it's the holy grail for actors - but one that you're rarely encouraged or liberated enough to pursue.
Some of the scenes in his films are as near to perfect as I've ever seen. Particularly the bridge scene near the start of This is England. But tons of bits.
Look at my tears. I mean just fucking look them. There's one over there, another one there - i think there's one rolled under the fridge as well.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
I was also pretty dissapointed by it.
It was like a devised theatre-in-educaiton piece with decent actors but with no real understanding of the issues they are trying to address or the social historical context in which the film is set.
The main proble i have with it is the utterly unrealistic depiciton of the skinheads.
We have woodys gang of touchly feely skins who talk freely about their emotions and are totally non-racist. Suddenlty into their midst comes psyco racist skin and it as if hes from another planet. There a particulalry cringeworthy bit where he shocks them when he says 'the're was this fucking ... I'm gonner say it! .. fucking paki!' . But 'paki' was an everyday word in those days - and still is in many parts of the country.
Skinheads - by the early 80s - were cloesly associated with the far right. Not all of them were card carrying fash but many of them were openly and enthusiasticlly racist and those that weren't were ambiguous at best. The exception to this was groups of avowedly ant-facist skinhead groups (associated with Red Action I think) - but these were overtly political
and I'm not sure if they were much in evidence in 1982 .
Whilst not all skins were racist and/or nazis, the whole culture was rooted round machismo - and fighting was a central part of that. At gigs and football matches you'd get groups of skins up for a ruck - and you made sure you steered well clear of em. Again woodys group bare absolutely no relation to that.
And i didn't like the way psycho skins racism was explained away as him being fucked up by his family background . Therefore he's full of rage and hate - thats why he becomes a nazi. Too pat and totally divoreced from any social political context. It also serves to make him a 'freak' - not like us nice non-racist people. Far more interesting would have been making Woody the racist nazi.
Basically I think meadows is doing a totally rose tinted spectacles job and , whilst he is great at doing gritty but sensitive stuff about young peoples in particular (like the excellent 24/7) - his political understanding seems to very limited, and this was very much exposed in 'This is England'.
It was like a devised theatre-in-educaiton piece with decent actors but with no real understanding of the issues they are trying to address or the social historical context in which the film is set.
The main proble i have with it is the utterly unrealistic depiciton of the skinheads.
We have woodys gang of touchly feely skins who talk freely about their emotions and are totally non-racist. Suddenlty into their midst comes psyco racist skin and it as if hes from another planet. There a particulalry cringeworthy bit where he shocks them when he says 'the're was this fucking ... I'm gonner say it! .. fucking paki!' . But 'paki' was an everyday word in those days - and still is in many parts of the country.
Skinheads - by the early 80s - were cloesly associated with the far right. Not all of them were card carrying fash but many of them were openly and enthusiasticlly racist and those that weren't were ambiguous at best. The exception to this was groups of avowedly ant-facist skinhead groups (associated with Red Action I think) - but these were overtly political
and I'm not sure if they were much in evidence in 1982 .
Whilst not all skins were racist and/or nazis, the whole culture was rooted round machismo - and fighting was a central part of that. At gigs and football matches you'd get groups of skins up for a ruck - and you made sure you steered well clear of em. Again woodys group bare absolutely no relation to that.
And i didn't like the way psycho skins racism was explained away as him being fucked up by his family background . Therefore he's full of rage and hate - thats why he becomes a nazi. Too pat and totally divoreced from any social political context. It also serves to make him a 'freak' - not like us nice non-racist people. Far more interesting would have been making Woody the racist nazi.
Basically I think meadows is doing a totally rose tinted spectacles job and , whilst he is great at doing gritty but sensitive stuff about young peoples in particular (like the excellent 24/7) - his political understanding seems to very limited, and this was very much exposed in 'This is England'.
Nowt just taking the piss, mate.
Yep agree with all of this.
Badly, with a trowel and a big fist of ham.
Why oh why oh why oh why oh why is he so revered?
What struck me about that character was that I knew several blokes like that - made me shiver in recognition
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
The point is that COmbo was 'back'. He was obviously there before, arguably he wasn't the same as he is now. People had changed Combo for the worse, arguably Woody, Milky and Co for the better. So it could be looked at as either Combo reminding a few of their previous 'outlook' or disappointment at Combo's new outlook.
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
Re: the film being criticised as anachronistic - it was set in the Midlands - fashion/subculture took their time establishing themselves in the provinces - I was 9 in Leeds in 1982 and I remember older skinheads quite clearly
One of the reasons the film made a big impact on me was that the Combo character was very much like a friend of mine growing up, very much like him.
I aint seen him for nearly fifteen years - because I couldnt put up with the bullshit he increasingly believed - but as a mate he was one of the best Ive ever had.
LOL
kidulthood was one of the biggest crocks of shit i've ever seen
I agree.
Yes it seems that much of the naysaying is from people who are nitpicking about its precise historical 'accuracy'. But in my view, the film was never attempting to be accurate in that way, it was showing things from the eyes of a child turning into a teenager.
And we all know (just from arguing on Urban) that how we saw things when we were teenagers is immediately dismissed as 'wrong' by people who were good enough to be 10 years older at the time
It's a great, great film, and no amount of "It's shit" is going to convince me otherwise.
Even my brother likes it, which is the ultimate benchmark, as he is like Dub x 10 - he says every film is shit, pretty much.
And we all know (just from arguing on Urban) that how we saw things when we were teenagers is immediately dismissed as 'wrong' by people who were good enough to be 10 years older at the time
It's a great, great film, and no amount of "It's shit" is going to convince me otherwise.
Even my brother likes it, which is the ultimate benchmark, as he is like Dub x 10 - he says every film is shit, pretty much.
Maggot
The Cake of Liberty
So we're not allowed to like Meadows on this thread?
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
But its not nitpicking - hes called the film 'this is england', its explcitly about skinheads, racism and identity and is very deliberately set in 1982. It is then majorly wrong in its depiction and analysis of it subject matter. Thats not 'nitpicking' - its a fundementally flawed film. Watch 'Made in Britain' or 'Scum' and then compare.
I didn't see this film when it was released in the cinema although i meant to catch it and was please when i saw Film 4 was showing it.
I started watching it, it seemed to be in the style of Ken Loach, a modern-day "Kes", a coming of age film, good pace, good editing touching little stories some funny bits,i thought i was going to really enjoy this film but then we have the abrupt introduction of the psycho skinhead from prison and the film suddenly becomes about him, all interesting bits and humourous bits gone, just pretty boring, the original central character pushed to the back-ground, unrealistic story-lines, just crap.
The film seeemed to be pretty inaccurate, this film was set some time after 1982 after the Falkland's War, yet i remember, 1980 as being the year of Skinhead, by post 1982 we were all into Boy George and New Romantics, not a skinhead insight, the NF completely dead, perhaps "up North" were in a fashoin time lag, or perhaps this film was just crap and inaccurate. i seriously don't know what all the fuss was about!
Another totally dull and unrealistic film from Shane Meadows. 1out of five.
No idea why this guy was banned, I'm sure he committed some sackable offence. But anyway I have to agree. Not a great movie, totally unrealistic. Completely overrated, as is Shane Meadows. Why is he so sanctified on these boards - serious question - ive seen pretty much all hes done and hes well, ok. thats it. Not shit, not great. I'd give this movie a 2.5/5.
Anyway, was the OP banned for dissing Saint Shane? Or somethin else?
isvicthere?
a.k.a. floppybollocks
^^^^
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