"This Bus Has Changed Its Destination"

[two sheds]

Text me back about trains Beverly!

Don't you know you shouldn't use people's real names on here?

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Don't you know you shouldn't use people's real names on here?

Is OK, that's only our private name for him.

 

[ajdown]

Is this guy trolling or is he actually that much of a dick?

Simply sharing a perfectly valid, legal, opinion. Unfortunately, it's not very popular around here - but that doesn't make it any less valid.

 

[ajdown]

You appear to have moved the goal posts. First you were talking about non-white people, now you're talking about immigrants. You seem confused. They are not the same thing.

Non English.

 

[fogbat]

Non English.

Ah, but now you have to define what you mean by English.

Are people of another ethnicity, who were born in England, English?

Or do their ancestors have to have come to England over a certain number of generations ago? Angles? Saxons?

 

[Agent Sparrow]

You haven't answered my questions ajdown. How much time does someone have to spend here to have the right to not be treated as a 2nd class citizen? 3 generations OK?

 

[quimcunx]

Non English.

So my black friend but not me, I'm Scottish.

 

[ajdown]

Ah, but now you have to define what you mean by English.

Are people of another ethnicity, who were born in England, English?

How do they define themselves? Do they find they identify more with the country in which they are living, or to the ethnic group that their parents/grandparents/however far back belonged to?

 

[ajdown]

You haven't answered my questions ajdown. How much time does someone have to spend here to have the right to not be treated as a 2nd class citizen? 3 generations OK?

See above. Their choice.

 

[quimcunx]

You haven't answered my questions ajdown. How much time does someone have to spend here to have the right to not be treated as a 2nd class citizen? 3 generations OK?

I don't think he can.

Because with white children of immigrants you can't really tell that they are immigrants, but with non-white ones the colour gives them away, usually. So all you can really do is your best with the information to hand, and treat the non-white people with prejudice.

 

[quimcunx]

How do they define themselves? Do they find they identify more with the country in which they are living, or to the ethnic group that their parents/grandparents/however far back belonged to?

But it's not though. I can identify more with being Scottish 'til the Highland cows come home, it won't stop me getting a job.

 

[ajdown]

But it's not though. I can identify more with being Scottish 'til the Highland cows come home, it won't stop me getting a job.

Neither does ethnicity really.

How many people that don't get a job/promotion ever think that the reason they were unsuccessful could possibly be because there were better candidates, rather than because of their ethnicity?

 

[fogbat]

Neither does ethnicity really.

How many people that don't get a job/promotion ever think that the reason they were unsuccessful could possibly be because there were better candidates, rather than because of their ethnicity?

There are times when that is the case, certainly, but do you genuinely believe that nobody is ever unsuccessful, when applying for a job, entirely because of their ethnicity?

 

[quimcunx]

Of the little experience I have in the matter:

100% of the white people i know who got pipped to the post by a black person thinks it was because of positive discrimination.

from a HR friend of mine: 'Any CV with a name that sounded black got binned'

from another HR friend: ''she said 'lovely girl, shame we can't take her on, Janet hates black people'. ''

You're full of shit aj. Try at least to give us some figures and links to back up your claims or put forward a comprehensible, consistent, linear argument instead of flitting from one non-sensical definition to another like a drunken bigotted butterfly.

 

[fogbat]

Of the little experience I have in the matter:

100% of the white people i know who got pipped to the post by a black person thinks it was because of positive discrimination.

from a HR friend of mine: 'Any CV with a name that sounded black got binned'

from another HR friend: ''she said 'lovely girl, shame we can't take her on, Janet hates black people'. ''

You're full of shit aj. Try at least to give us some figures and links to back up your claims or put forward a comprehensible, consistent, linear argument instead of flitting from one non-sensical definition to another like a drunken bigotted butterfly.

Yep, an old CEO of mine binned any CVs with a foreign-sounding name on.

Mind you, he was the most right-wing, Jeremy Clarkson-idolising tossbag I've ever had the misfortune to meet.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

See above. Their choice.

This person sees themselves pretty much as British. Unfortunately that means fuck all to the police who judge him on the basis of his skin colour alone.

 

[ajdown]

There are times when that is the case, certainly, but do you genuinely believe that nobody is ever unsuccessful, when applying for a job, entirely because of their ethnicity?

I'm not saying that people can be unsuccessful in applications because of their ethnicity - but that it does work both ways, both for white and black/asian/mixed/whatever, and I'm quite sure that because of this stupid thing where 'minorities should be represented fairly in the workforce', an underqualified, inexperienced minority person is given the job over a well qualified, well experienced white person happens a lot too.

I wonder how it must feel, to have only got the job because you were from a minority, rather than because you were actually the best candidate? Pretty shitty, I'd guess.

 

[ajdown]

This person sees themselves pretty much as British. Unfortunately that means fuck all to the police who judge him on the basis of his skin colour alone.

But that depends on the area.

If 20% of the population is white, and 10% of the population are criminals, then simple statistics show that there's a greater chance of a non-white person committing a crime.

Thus, more non-white people are likely to be stopped, if they stop 1 in 50 people on the street.

Elementary mathematics.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

This person sees themselves pretty much as British. Unfortunately that means fuck all to the police who judge him on the basis of his skin colour alone.

And you know what? It wouldn't matter a fuck if he did identify more with his heritidge than his nationality, as long as he upheld the important laws of the land.

 

[berniedicters]

Why is that such a problem? Would you go to Iran and complain that majority of the power is held by Moslems?

If people want to come to this country, then providing they meet all the requirements laid down by the government, then they should abide by our rules. We shouldn't have to bend over backwards to accommodate their special requirements.

Look at the amount of money wasted on translation by the emergency services, local councils and schools for the growing immigrant population; it should be a basic requirement for anyone seeking to settle in this country that they have at least a basic understanding, if not fluency, of our native language.

Oooooh, ya little charmer!

Er, given your tendency to take a contradictory position on rather more than one issue, you wouldn't just be here for the trollage, would you? Notthatthat'sabadthingoranything....

Though you do seem a bit too adept at this BNPesque "I'm a pwoar ickwle wite bwoy bein oppwessed" schtick, so either you're very good at trolling, or you're a nasty little racist without the backbone to actually admit that that's what you are...

 

[two sheds]

I wonder how it must feel, to have only got the job because you were from a minority, rather than because you were actually the best candidate? Pretty shitty, I'd guess.

Not as shitty as it must feel to wake up and realise you're you in the morning, asshole.

 

[berniedicters]

Simply sharing a perfectly valid, legal, opinion. Unfortunately, it's not very popular around here - but that doesn't make it any less valid.

Maybe not, but it doesn't make it any MORE valid, either.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

But that depends on the area.

If 20% of the population is white, and 10% of the population are criminals, then simple statistics show that there's a greater chance of a non-white person committing a crime.

Thus, more non-white people are likely to be stopped, if they stop 1 in 50 people on the street.

Elementary mathematics.

How many Asian terrorists have we had? Really not many, compared to the Asian population. It's a tiny percentage, and it really, really doesn't warrant the amount of unprovoked searches he's been given in recent years. His family isn't even Muslim ffs! Not that that sort of indiscriminate stop and search would be warranted if his family were Muslim either.

And in terms of feeling like a British citizen, he feels a lot less like a valued one after all of this started!

 

[berniedicters]

...like a drunken bigotted butterfly.

Now there's an image to conjure with. I have a mental picture of a kind of hefty moth-like thing with swastika patterns superimposed over Union Jacks on its wings, a wall eye and the face of David Griffin, bashing into flower heads and walls.

Oh, and little bovver boots.

 

[ajdown]

Oooooh, ya little charmer!

Er, given your tendency to take a contradictory position on rather more than one issue, you wouldn't just be here for the trollage, would you? Notthatthat'sabadthingoranything....

Though you do seem a bit too adept at this BNPesque "I'm a pwoar ickwle wite bwoy bein oppwessed" schtick, so either you're very good at trolling, or you're a nasty little racist without the backbone to actually admit that that's what you are...

I grew up in Somerset, so I'd identify my heritage as 'Wessex', if it was an option on forms, but as it never is I pick the nearest convenient.

In London generally, let alone Brixton, I am most definitely a minority. Ethnicity is far deeper than just skin colour.

 

[ajdown]

Not as shitty as it must feel to wake up and realise you're you in the morning, asshole.

I'm quite happy with my life, thankyou. Are you?

 

[berniedicters]

But that depends on the area.

If 20% of the population is white, and 10% of the population are criminals, then simple statistics show that there's a greater chance of a non-white person committing a crime.

Thus, more non-white people are likely to be stopped, if they stop 1 in 50 people on the street.

Elementary mathematics.

Elementary WRONG mathematics.

I am sure that Crispy will be along with some pie (charts! Pie CHARTS, not Pie) in a minute, but meanwhile...

"If 20% of the population is white"?

Pardon me for pointing out the obvious, but the white population of this country is MASSIVELY more than 20% white. In fact, I think that it may be around 10% NON-white.

So (say) 9 out of 10 people ARE white.

So if many more than 9 out of 10 people being stopped by the OB are non-white, that suggests that some kind of discrimination (small "d") is taking place on the basis of skin colour, no?

 

[berniedicters]

I grew up in Somerset, so I'd identify my heritage as 'Wessex', if it was an option on forms, but as it never is I pick the nearest convenient.

In London generally, let alone Brixton, I am most definitely a minority. Ethnicity is far deeper than just skin colour.

OK, so maybe you mean "I'm a pwoar ickwle wessex bwoy being opwessed"? My point remains.

 

[ajdown]

Pardon me for pointing out the obvious, but the white population of this country is MASSIVELY more than 20% white. In fact, I think that it may be around 10% NON-white.

Not where I live, it isn't. Not by a long stretch.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Elementary WRONG mathematics.

I am sure that Crispy will be along with some pie (charts! Pie CHARTS, not Pie) in a minute, but meanwhile...

"If 20% of the population is white"?

Pardon me for pointing out the obvious, but the white population of this country is MASSIVELY more than 20% white. In fact, I think that it may be around 10% NON-white.

So (say) 9 out of 10 people ARE white.

So if many more than 9 out of 10 people being stopped by the OB are non-white, that suggests that some kind of discrimination (small "d") is taking place on the basis of skin colour, no?

Yeah, you're right. I got so annoyed I didn't even look at the figures he was putting down.

I'd guess that in many areas with white majorities, the majority of stop and searches are of non whites.