"These clever people who've captured the state"

[Kid_Eternity]

And it saddens me that over the past three years newly graduated journalists have probably been churned out of that school whose opinions and attitudes are probably cloned from those of the course leader, when journalism should be all about questioning.

Indeed (Chomsky has written much about the internalising of powers' values by journalists/the media). Excellent post btw, very insightful.

 

[Tony Blair]

All in all though, if you look at the facts, this government is doing what most people in the country want us to do. Or certainly, that's the impression we get.

We in the Labour party had to rethink a lot of things following the defeat of Michael Foot in 1983. It became clear to us that the great british public generally wasn't interested in morality, idealism, or socialism. Thatcher's election victories convinced me that what people were after was not some state-created utopia, but the opportunity to get rich, like the rich were. And the only way in which the conservatives made a mistake was to try to join the ERM and sustain it by putting interest rates at such a high level that people couldn't pay their mortgages and the economy collapsed. If they hadn't caused the recession in which loads of people lost their jobs and their homes, they would have won indefinitely.

We are a democratic party, and we try to give people what they want. I think it's fairly clear what most people in this country do want, stability, the opportunity to make good, to get on with their lives, and to feel good that they earned it, and that those who didn't, lost out.

Humans, collectively we're a very stupid species. And when someone like Jesus turns up and tries to persuade us that we could and should be more than domesticated chimpanzees with technology, what happens, they either get crucified, mocked, or ignored.
But my job as a politician isn't to make that judgement, it's just to give people what they vote for.

 

[tbaldwin]

All in all though, if you look at the facts, this government is doing what most people in the country want us to do. Or certainly, that's the impression we get.

.

Not really the whole truth is it Tone.....
What about on Crime and Immigration?
What about an elected 2nd chamber?
What about Iraq?

 

[ZWord]

Not really the whole truth is it Tone.....
What about on Crime and Immigration?
What about an elected 2nd chamber?
What about Iraq?

does it really matter? I think he's got a point, these days. Much as I dislike the politics he represents.

 

[Tony Blair]

Not really the whole truth is it Tone.....
What about on Crime and Immigration?
What about an elected 2nd chamber?
What about Iraq?

What about them?

 

[tbaldwin]

What about them?

Your policies on crime and migration are not what people want.
They want tighter/effective controls on migration and they want punishments to fit the crime.

Nobody wants to see an appointed 2nd chamber either.

And Iraq,people dont want the troops there...

 

[tbaldwin]

What about them?

Sarah Paynes killer was previously imprisoned for less than 3 years after abducting a little girl at knife point... Do you think that is what most people would have wanted?
Do you think that most people would like to see him killed or spend the rest of his life in prison?

 

[Azrael23]

All in all though, if you look at the facts, this government is doing what most people in the country want us to do. Or certainly, that's the impression we get.

Yeah selling off our infrastructure, eroding freedoms we`ve held for centuries, rising expenditure, explosion in the size of government, nanny state mentality and wars in the name of LIES.

Your impression is about as accurate as stevie wonders sketch of amazonia.

We in the Labour party had to rethink a lot of things following the defeat of Michael Foot in 1983. It became clear to us that the great british public generally wasn't interested in morality, idealism, or socialism. Thatcher's election victories convinced me that what people were after was not some state-created utopia, but the opportunity to get rich, like the rich were. And the only way in which the conservatives made a mistake was to try to join the ERM and sustain it by putting interest rates at such a high level that people couldn't pay their mortgages and the economy collapsed. If they hadn't caused the recession in which loads of people lost their jobs and their homes, they would have won indefinitely. .

Actually the British public is VERY interested in morality. Perhaps you`d care to comment on the morality of debt based money creation?
The idea that one day everyone will be rich is a con. The gap between rich and poor has turned into a chasm under labour is that not true?

We are a democratic party, and we try to give people what they want. I think it's fairly clear what most people in this country do want, stability, the opportunity to make good, to get on with their lives, and to feel good that they earned it, and that those who didn't, lost out. .

Most people didn`t want war in Iraq, you didn`t give them what they wanted. No instead they were just lied to.

Humans, collectively we're a very stupid species. And when someone like Jesus turns up and tries to persuade us that we could and should be more than domesticated chimpanzees with technology, what happens, they either get crucified, mocked, or ignored.
But my job as a politician isn't to make that judgement, it's just to give people what they vote for.

We are very stupid as a collective. But thats not inherent is it? Its manipulation, Jesus (if he existed) was crucified by the Roman Empire. You represent an Empire that is little different in its methodology and philosophy. How many of us will be sacrificed on the altar of the New World Order?

BTW I have a hard time believing this is the knight of malta. Bloody sycophants are everywhere.....scum.

 

[ZWord]

hmm.

 

[Tony Blair]

Yeah selling off our infrastructure, eroding freedoms we`ve held for centuries, rising expenditure, explosion in the size of government, nanny state mentality and wars in the name of LIES.

Your impression is about as accurate as stevie wonders sketch of amazonia.

Actually the British public is VERY interested in morality. Perhaps you`d care to comment on the morality of debt based money creation?
The idea that one day everyone will be rich is a con. The gap between rich and poor has turned into a chasm under labour is that not true?

Most people didn`t want war in Iraq, you didn`t give them what they wanted. No instead they were just lied to.

We are very stupid as a collective. But thats not inherent is it? Its manipulation, Jesus (if he existed) was crucified by the Roman Empire. You represent an Empire that is little different in its methodology and philosophy. How many of us will be sacrificed on the altar of the New World Order?

BTW I have a hard time believing this is the knight of malta. Bloody sycophants are everywhere.....scum.

If the British public as a whole is interested in morality, then why did they vote for Thatcher when they could have voted for Michael Foot?

I and my colleagues believe that in fact across the country there is as much if not more support, felt just as strongly for government policy in Iraq, for removing a murderous dictator, for putting right the mistakes of the past, and for giving Iraq the chance to become a democratic nation.

Mr Baldwin, do you have any evidence to back up your assertions? I think actually, beyond the concerns of a few leftie intellectuals on this site, most people don't care at all about lords reform, any more than they do about electoral reform, or the lunatic ideas of the far left that we're trying to destroy democracy in this country in order to fulfil some master plan for a new world order.

The idea that everyone will be rich may be a con, but it's one that people want, because they want the opportunity to be rich, and the opportunity if they succeed, to look down on those who haven't.

Is human stupidity inherent? Well, if you look at the facts, I think it must be. And we're totally different from the Roman Empire, we're far more humane, we want those who can to be content, well-fed and so on. Our society wouldn't crucify Jesus, probably just drive him nuts, and then send him to a mental hospital and destroy him with psychiatric drugs.

 

[bluestreak]

heh heh, the facade slips, tony blair would never be that honest!

 

[Tony Blair]

yeah it's true, I do seem to be cracking up slightly.

 

[bluestreak]

yeah it's true, I do seem to be cracking up slightly.

quoted for posterity!

 

[Azrael23]

If the British public as a whole is interested in morality, then why did they vote for Thatcher when they could have voted for Michael Foot?

You think morality can be seen on show in elections? A lot of people already know the real power lies in the banks.

I and my colleagues believe that in fact across the country there is as much if not more support, felt just as strongly for government policy in Iraq, for removing a murderous dictator, for putting right the mistakes of the past, and for giving Iraq the chance to become a democratic nation.

Removing a murderous dictator that the west put in power in the first place. Was it also not the west which supplied him with the weapons?

Mr Baldwin, do you have any evidence to back up your assertions? I think actually, beyond the concerns of a few leftie intellectuals on this site, most people don't care at all about lords reform, any more than they do about electoral reform, or the lunatic ideas of the far left that we're trying to destroy democracy in this country in order to fulfil some master plan for a new world order.?

No they don`t care, they are distracted. IT WILL NOT ALWAYS BE SO.

Leftie? Far Leftie? Whats this nonsense? I`m not left, I`m not right. I`m not anything I`m an individual and have a variety of views on different issues. I`m with George Washington when he said political parties are baneful.

Its no lunacy you fool. ID Cards, Anti-terrorism legislation, The Legislative and Authorative reform act (iirc such a bland name....purposefully of course), we are the most watched nation on earth CCTV-wise, PFI concentrating power in even fewer hands...Is your statement supposed to be funny?!

The idea that everyone will be rich may be a con, but it's one that people want, because they want the opportunity to be rich, and the opportunity if they succeed, to look down on those who haven't.?

In the broad terms of society people want freedom and justice, not a hollow feeling of egotism. Must you judge everyone by your own standards?

Is human stupidity inherent? Well, if you look at the facts, I think it must be. And we're totally different from the Roman Empire, we're far more humane, we want those who can to be content, well-fed and so on. Our society wouldn't crucify Jesus, probably just drive him nuts, and then send him to a mental hospital and destroy him with psychiatric drugs.

We are all of differing intelligences, those you would call stupid may be highly emotionally intelligent, disabled people are capable of genius, autism certainly seems to exhibit genius tendencies, your just talking out your ass because your full of ego. There was a guy that said Ego is pain, so your welcome to that.

Well actually the parallels to Rome are endless,

Decadence in its final days: Self Explainatory

Phoney politics concealing oligarchy: It matters not whose in power,nothing will change. Today thats because tory or labour have to borrow their credit for all their spending. Neither a borrower or a lender be Tony.


Slave society: We force countless people abroad to work at slave wages simply to stay alive in the economic climate the central banks have created.


Staged terror attacks: Neros little blaze is not so dissimilar from 9/11 or 7/7 is it?

 

[editor]

Fake terror attacks: Neros little blaze is not so dissimilar from 9/11 or 7/7 is it?

Unless you have any credible proof that 7/7 was a "fake terror attack" you'd best shut it now.

 

[Azrael23]

Unless you have any credible proof that 7/7 was a "fake terror attack" you'd best shut it now.

Not fake just not carried out by the people we were told. What is credible proof?

 

[editor]

Not fake just not carried out by the people we were told. What is credible proof?

Something that reasonably supports the assertion you've just made.

You used the phrase, "fake terror attack," not me.

 

[Azrael23]

Something that reasonably supports the assertion you've just made.

You used the phrase, "fake terror attack," not me.

Ok, one thing that reasonably supports that assertion is that the mastermind of the 7/7 bombings was working for Al-Qaeda and for MI6. The British Govt have protected him on various occasions including from prosecution in Seattle when he was caught setting up terrorist training camps. Hes a double agent.

News Clip

 

[editor]

Ok, one thing that reasonably supports that assertion is that the mastermind of the 7/7 bombings was working for Al-Qaeda and for MI6. The British Govt have protected him on various occasions including from prosecution in Seattle when he was caught setting up terrorist training camps. Hes a double agent.

That bit of loose speculation doesn't even remotely prove your claim that the 7/7 attacks were a "fake terror attack."

 

[Azrael23]

That bit of loose speculation doesn't even remotely prove your claim that the 7/7 attacks were a "fake terror attack."

ok

 

[Azrael23]

That bit of loose speculation doesn't even remotely prove your claim that the 7/7 attacks were a "fake terror attack."

people can watch the clip and judge for themselves. Thats the beauty of it.

 

[editor]

people can watch the clip and judge for themselves. Thats the beauty of it.

If they find two FOX presenters rabbiting away to each other fascinating, yes.

But you actually have no proof that it was a "fake terror attack" at all, have you, just like your earlier source-free claim about WTC7.

That's a bad habit, you know.

 

[Azrael23]

If they find two FOX presenters rabbiting away to each other fascinating, yes.

But you actually have no proof that it was a "fake terror attack" at all, have you, just like your earlier source-free claim about WTC7.

That's a bad habit, you know.

Errrm theres also the expert on terrorism.

Your post is anti-azrael23 propaganda!

 

[editor]

Your post is anti-azrael23 propaganda!

I strongly suggest you stop disrupting threads with any more of your wild, unsubstantiated claims.

In other words, keep your conspiraloonery in your pants.

 

[Azrael23]

I strongly suggest you stop disrupting threads with any more of your wild, unsubstantiated claims.

In other words, keep your conspiraloonery in your pants.

Well Michael Meacher is saying it.
Article

I can post an interview with him if you like.

 

[editor]

Well Michael Meacher is saying it.

Does he say that 7/7 was a "fake terror attack"?

No, he doesn't.

You keep on disrupting threads with random shit like this and you're banned.

 

[Azrael23]

Does he say that 7/7 was a "fake terror attack"?

No, he doesn't.

You keep on disrupting threads with random shit like this and you're banned.

I`m being perfectly reasonable.

He`s saying that MI6 trains and at least influences the terror cells.

How can you say this is random? These events have effected all of us whether you like it or not.

Are you happy that Blair refused to have a public enquiry into 7/7?

 

[editor]

He`s saying that MI6 trains and at least influences the terror cells.

And your claim was that 7/7 was a "fake terror attack."

Now either prove that claim or shut the fuck up.

Or, even better, post your endlessly regurgitated random conspiracy snippets somewhere else.

 

[Azrael23]

And your claim was that 7/7 was a "fake terror attack."

Now either prove that claim or shut the fuck up.

Or, even better, post your endlessly regurgitated random conspiracy snippets somewhere else.

I`m being civil why can`t you? I`m not offended that people disagree with me like you do.

If youn read the thread you said I could post what I did. So whats your problem?

 

[Firky]

He doesn't use the word fake, but he does put forward some interesting points.

I don't see why MI6 would want to orchestrate a bombing, our governments do lie to us, to bump people off, but the mass murder of innocent vivilians... why?

edit to add: I just read ed's comments, perhaps I best shut the fuck up too! I'd just drop it if I were you, dude.