danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Seriously.
Theos invents another huge cultural problem which "only religion" can solve
- Thread starter danny la rouge
- Start date
Because it means they don't like being people.
It reveals Darwinism's incapacity to explain human psychology.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Wrong, theology tells humans why they shouldn't like themselves, and then goes to great lengths to provide justifications for taking that perspective. The fear, or otherwise, of death is cultural behaviour, and the notion of fear of death in contemporary culture is easily tracked to ancient memes such as the concept of eternal youth, which exist in their own culturally Darwinistic spaces.
No, theology begins from the fact that people don't like being people, and then explains how that fact comes to be.
So you believe that unwillingness to die is culturally relative?
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Well, it is now
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I saw a film recently of a pride of Lions attacking an Elephant. The elephant definately did not want to die!
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
No more or less culturally relative than any other human thought - for example, while someone who believes in reincarnation may well not fear death, they'll certainly fear that they haven't been good enough to be reincarnated on the same or a higher plane of existance; same goes for Book theists - you could be utterly happy and not have an issue with death at all if your belief is structured around the ultimate forgiveness of God, or you could spend your whole life terrified of dying if you think you'll end up in hell for mastubating.
Same thing goes for atheists - speaking personally I don't have an issue with dying or death (altho I have some opinions on how I'd prefer to meet my end - burning to death isn't a favourite for sure); I've met (admittedly younger) people who when they think about it are terrified of death. Why do you think there are so many different exaplanations? Culture.
Same thing goes for atheists - speaking personally I don't have an issue with dying or death (altho I have some opinions on how I'd prefer to meet my end - burning to death isn't a favourite for sure); I've met (admittedly younger) people who when they think about it are terrified of death. Why do you think there are so many different exaplanations? Culture.
They weren't happy about it though.
What I'm saying, I suppose, is that consciousness is alienation. To be self-conscious is to be other than oneself. What evolutionary advantage could possibly result from that? None, which is why human beings don't have one.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
We like living as humans and want it to continue as long as possible. What could be strange about that?
Well, it is now
Not through its internal logic, but necessarily as a result of external causes, as Spinoza correctly asserted when he extended the classical concept of hormê (Greek characters not working - sorry) to include the conatus sese conservandi.
How can you possibly know this?
No, obviously we don't like living as humans, because humans die, and we don't want to die.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Do you know how many non sequiturs, fallacies and absurdities you have committed, there, Flann O'Brien?
I'll stick to this gem, though: It does not follow from the (faulty) assertion that self-consciousness has no evolutionary advantage, that humans possess no evolutionary advantages at all.
I believe that fear of death--or rather of non-existence--is a cultural universal.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Do you think that the elephant was thinking about it, or reacting instinctively?
phildwyer said:
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Speak for yourself..
Personally I love living as a human and hope it continues as long as possible, but when death comes I will deal with that too without a problem.
Yes it does, because self-consciousness is the distinguishing human characteristic. If humans enjoyed any evolutionary advantage at all, we would have to locate it in self-consciousness. We're certainly not much good at running or fighting.
But in any case, the question of whether humans enjoy any evolutionary advantage is easily solved by empirical means. Human beings have developed the means, and in all probability the will, to destroy themselves. That would seem to be a rather heavy evolutionary handicap, no?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
How could one know?
Lions attacking animals as big as Elephant is rare so perhaps the Elephant was shocked by the event, but as to whether it was thinking or reacting on instinct I have no idea.
But on what evidence is this belief predicated? Pure Idealism as far as I can see.
A self-refuting statement. To be human is to be mortal. Therefore, to like being human is to like being mortal. But you do not like being mortal. Therefore you do not like being human.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Studies have shown elephants possess self-awareness. (See, eg).
But to compare such rudimentary awareness with human self-consciousness is merely to muddy the waters. The difference is obvious, unmistakable and undeniable.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
But being human cannot be reduced just to being mortal, we are a whole lot more than that. Everything that lives dies, there is nothing to be afraid of.
How can you say that I do not like being mortal when I have said that death holds no fear for me?
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Are you saying that no one likes being mortal? That immortality of some description is a cultural universal? Pish.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Let's assume for the lulz that it is The Distinguishing Human Characteristic, that does not necessarily mean it is what gave H. sapiens evolutionary advantage. Indeed, there is evidence to suggest our immediate Homo predecessors also possessed self-awareness. (Flower burials, symbolic carvings, etc).
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
It is a matter of degree only.
