The white working class; Britain’s forgotten race victims?

[_angel_]

Wouldn't it be a better idea to create work for people to go to instead of blaming the unemployed for their own problems? Aren't New Labour meant to be adopting Roosevelt's New Deal ideas?

Hazel Blears is ... there are no words to describe the weary tiredness and cringeing that overcomes me every time she opens her mouth. She would make a very good school prefect (if they still had them) at a posh all girls school.

NOooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Kick the poor! That's the answer!

 

[_angel_]

Except its not going to happen. Its pure bullshit and spin.

Maybe it is just me and having seen my own family do quite well for themselves and with my kids being hopefully the first to make the leap into middle class proffessional security it is a sign of how things can be achieved but I think we succeeded despite the welfare state, not because of it. My Grandfathers were real dyed in the wool old fashioned reds who are no doubt turning in their graves to see me voting Tory but I do know that they both did not fight for what our society has become today.

I appreciate its a cliche and all that but the Welfare state was designed as a safety net, not a way of life and unfortunately it does act as something for those who are feckless to sponge off and seems to reward shit behaviour.

Yes there are lots of factors as to why the welfare dependant working class could have something to arseache about but for me their own fecklessness and lack of willingness to take responsibilty for their own actions should not be ignored. You quote Shameless, well I was always struck by how Franks family were portrayed. His actions are of somebody who made a deliberate choice to not do anything with his life and which I see mirrored by many who may well have been included in the report in question.

"Get a job, even when there isn't a job, you should get a job"

 

[Stoat Boy]

"Get a job, even when there isn't a job, you should get a job"

A lot of those people never got a job when there was plenty of work around. Thats the point.

I appreaciate things are tough now. But I also know of people who are losing their business through no fault of their own ( primarily its down to them getting knocked for huge sums of money by people they did work for going into administration) and are finding out that when they go to get some help for the first time in their lives its near impossible to do so.

Yet shit bags like my brother, who has never contributed anything in his life to society beyond fathering kids he wont have anything to do with, have the system paying their rent and putting money in their pocket to go out drinking with whilst doing cash in hand jobs.

I see the Sharon Matthews of this world and it makes me ashamed to be labelled in the same way.

 

[glenquagmire]

If you've got any sense, you'll be proud of the people around the Matthews family. That community were fucking brilliant when it was believed the kid was missing. The 'Sharon Matthews of this world' are sick fucks from all classes and in no way at all representative of a wider group of people.

 

[Stoat Boy]

If you've got any sense, you'll be proud of the around the Matthews family. That community were fucking brilliant when it was believed the kid was missing. The 'Sharon Matthews of this world' are sick fucks from all classes and in no way at all representative of a wider group of people.

Fair enough.

Reckon I will give up on this thread. My apologies. Just lashing out due to family circumstances and seeing white trash who share my DNA seemingly trying to undo generations of hard work in actually making something of ourselves.

Ignore me. Just one of those days.

 

[_angel_]

A lot of those people never got a job when there was plenty of work around. Thats the point.

I appreaciate things are tough now. But I also know of people who are losing their business through no fault of their own ( primarily its down to them getting knocked for huge sums of money by people they did work for going into administration) and are finding out that when they go to get some help for the first time in their lives its near impossible to do so.

Yet shit bags like my brother, who has never contributed anything in his life to society beyond fathering kids he wont have anything to do with, have the system paying their rent and putting money in their pocket to go out drinking with whilst doing cash in hand jobs.

I see the Sharon Matthews of this world and it makes me ashamed to be labelled in the same way.

Don't lump us all in with that stupid cow!
Although, as an aside, that no-one seems to care about, her partner WORKED!

On another forum I post on (a carers one) there's real worry they will compel seriously mentally ill people into fulltime work, because they can manage a few hours. There's a situation whereby people who feel they can work a few hours but no more will be made to choose to do none at all, because of the compulsion to get everybody into fulltime work.

This is all because the media and govt has decided to present ALL these people as 'spongers'.




eta: just seen your response..

also, I think you mean 'Karen' not 'Sharon'.

 

[ViolentPanda]

A lot of those people never got a job when there was plenty of work around. Thats the point.

Please support this claim with some evidence.

Thanks awfully.

 

[Stoat Boy]

Please support this claim with some evidence.

Thanks awfully.

You know I cannot. And I have already admitted that i have been lashing out in this thread about something that has nothing to do with it but if I will give you what you want so you can keep that constipated look on your face that seem so beloved of anybody who starts giving it the 'how very dare you' bit when ever somebody suggests that segments of the working class might not be the poor down trodden salt of the earth types that they have wanked themselves silly over ever since reading their first copy of 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists'

There are a lot of lazy, piss taking white working class people out there who will blag, steal, lie and cheat all whilst holding out the begging bowl for handouts from a welfare state that had become a bloated travesty of what it was originally meant to be.

Not only do they not work, they wont work because why should they if they can get money for nothing. They know how to work the system and drain it and will resort to blaming anybody and anything rather than face up to the fact that they are lazy, no good lieing scumbags who dont wish to take any responsibility for anything they do in this world.

Yes, perhaps the state has effectively by-passed them in favour of the far more photogenic immigrants but you can bet your last pound that the majority of those immigrants will have got off their arses within a couple of generations as opposed to those white trash who just sit on their fat shell suited arses and do nothing other than smoke and dream of being on the Jeremy Kyle show.

The only time those on the left give a shit about them is when they vote BNP and the main stream right despise them for just being a waste of space.

Yes it is fucking tragic about the youngsters who grow up in houses full of DVD's but no books beyond the latest Argos catalouge but lets not pretend that a lot of the reason people are in that situation is down to their own choices.

And breath. That makes me feel better. Naturally I doubt many of you will agree with a single word but I'll let you into a little secret. I dont give a toss. White trash have no fucking excuses beyond those which the left are willing to give them.

 

[danny la rouge]

There are a lot of lazy, piss taking [white working class] people out there

(My parenthesis).

The point has already been made above, though: people are pretty much people. We can do without stereotypes, though.

 

[Fedayn]

A lot of those people never got a job when there was plenty of work around. Thats the point.

Please support this claim with some evidence.

Thanks awfully.

You know I cannot.

Says it all frankly.

 

[_angel_]

You know I cannot. And I have already admitted that i have been lashing out in this thread about something that has nothing to do with it but if I will give you what you want so you can keep that constipated look on your face that seem so beloved of anybody who starts giving it the 'how very dare you' bit when ever somebody suggests that segments of the working class might not be the poor down trodden salt of the earth types that they have wanked themselves silly over ever since reading their first copy of 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists'

There are a lot of lazy, piss taking white working class people out there who will blag, steal, lie and cheat all whilst holding out the begging bowl for handouts from a welfare state that had become a bloated travesty of what it was originally meant to be.

Not only do they not work, they wont work because why should they if they can get money for nothing. They know how to work the system and drain it and will resort to blaming anybody and anything rather than face up to the fact that they are lazy, no good lieing scumbags who dont wish to take any responsibility for anything they do in this world.

Yes, perhaps the state has effectively by-passed them in favour of the far more photogenic immigrants but you can bet your last pound that the majority of those immigrants will have got off their arses within a couple of generations as opposed to those white trash who just sit on their fat shell suited arses and do nothing other than smoke and dream of being on the Jeremy Kyle show.

The only time those on the left give a shit about them is when they vote BNP and the main stream right despise them for just being a waste of space.

Yes it is fucking tragic about the youngsters who grow up in houses full of DVD's but no books beyond the latest Argos catalouge but lets not pretend that a lot of the reason people are in that situation is down to their own choices.

And breath. That makes me feel better. Naturally I doubt many of you will agree with a single word but I'll let you into a little secret. I dont give a toss. White trash have no fucking excuses beyond those which the left are willing to give them.

Is there anything in there that isn't a lazy, tired stereotype?

 

[ViolentPanda]

You know I cannot. And I have already admitted that i have been lashing out in this thread about something that has nothing to do with it but if I will give you what you want so you can keep that constipated look on your face that seem so beloved of anybody who starts giving it the 'how very dare you' bit when ever somebody suggests that segments of the working class might not be the poor down trodden salt of the earth types that they have wanked themselves silly over ever since reading their first copy of 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists'

There are a lot of lazy, piss taking white working class people out there who will blag, steal, lie and cheat all whilst holding out the begging bowl for handouts from a welfare state that had become a bloated travesty of what it was originally meant to be.

There are "a lot of people" of all classes and colours who take the piss. Singling out one particular sector for scorn seems a bit, for want of a better word, stupid.

Not only do they not work, they wont work because why should they if they can get money for nothing. They know how to work the system and drain it and will resort to blaming anybody and anything rather than face up to the fact that they are lazy, no good lieing scumbags who dont wish to take any responsibility for anything they do in this world.

Yes, perhaps the state has effectively by-passed them in favour of the far more photogenic immigrants but you can bet your last pound that the majority of those immigrants will have got off their arses within a couple of generations as opposed to those white trash who just sit on their fat shell suited arses and do nothing other than smoke and dream of being on the Jeremy Kyle show.

The only time those on the left give a shit about them is when they vote BNP and the main stream right despise them for just being a waste of space.

Yes it is fucking tragic about the youngsters who grow up in houses full of DVD's but no books beyond the latest Argos catalouge but lets not pretend that a lot of the reason people are in that situation is down to their own choices.

And breath. That makes me feel better. Naturally I doubt many of you will agree with a single word but I'll let you into a little secret. I dont give a toss. White trash have no fucking excuses beyond those which the left are willing to give them.

Lovely bit of hatred projection there, but fuck-all else.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Is there anything in there that isn't a lazy, tired stereotype?

Not a single fucking word.

 

[Nigel]

For The Working Class Not The Shirking Class!!!!!!

Except its not going to happen. Its pure bullshit and spin.

Maybe it is just me and having seen my own family do quite well for themselves and with my kids being hopefully the first to make the leap into middle class proffessional security it is a sign of how things can be achieved but I think we succeeded despite the welfare state, not because of it. My Grandfathers were real dyed in the wool old fashioned reds who are no doubt turning in their graves to see me voting Tory but I do know that they both did not fight for what our society has become today.

"I appreciate its a cliche and all that but the Welfare state was designed as a safety net, not a way of life and unfortunately it does act as something for those who are feckless to sponge off and seems to reward shit behaviour. "SPOT ON

I think you are wrong to support tories, after all it was Thatcher and her administration who could be held more responsible than any the rot we have now: Hayekian Rejection Of Society & Monetarist Socio-Economic Policy Of Creating High Unemployment To Push Down Wages(among other policies), Destruction Of Our Manufacturing Industry etc etc.

However that paragraph I agree with 100%

 

[_angel_]

Nice to see the so called socialist and tory in agreement.

 

[brasicritique]

wow, how did you get all that from my "inane post" ? and if you are referring to the other thread - you argued that we were anti right to buy because we were anti working class, that we wanted to stop the working class buying their council homes - and then you meander on about the shortage of housing - which was caused in part by right to buy - you made no sense in that thread - which is par for the course with you

i got all that as i refered to your posts on housing and here we still see you kicking the working class and blaming them for the housing shortage bully for you

 

[Nigel]

Nice to see the so called socialist and tory in agreement.

What's your perspective on Millies/SP's latest initiative.
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=8668142#post8668142

 

[cesare]

Interesting blog post here http://savecatford.org/cblog/

Note just about BNP tactics welcoming Tess Culnane back to the fold, and her standing for by-election; but also about the blogger's thoughts on working class discrimination and politics.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Nice to see the so called socialist and tory in agreement.

Nigel can't see a tory cock without wanting to suck it.

 

[treelover]

As much as the BNP, NF and BPP are despicable extreme organisations - by far the biggest threat at the moment to the working class of all colours is those who actually have their hands on the levers of power, be they new labour or new tories - it’s their policies and behaviour that have given rise to the kind of conditions that have allowed parties like the BNP to flourish - the political abandonment by a supposedly pro working class party of their natural constituents in favour of narrow middle class middle england and the continuation and deepening of thatcherite neo-liberal policies by new labour led to a massive political vacuum as all three mainstream parties fell over themselves to ape each others policies and chase after the slither of marginal middle class middle england issues/constituencies where general elections were won & lost and delivered to the successful party the right to administer neo-liberal policies on behalf of capital

Vacuum’s, in politics, are always eventually filled - the Left in the UK proved their complete and utter incapability to do so with a parallel disengagement from what should be their natural constituency almost aping that of the mainstream parties - the issues of the working class in the UK were just not sexy or international enough for the largely academic/intellectual left who became blind to the very real issues confronting the working class in this country. The working class of this country had failed ‘The Left’ who were constantly jumping from pillar to post looking for a new agent of change whether that be students, muslims or a retreat into academic left intellectualism/ineffectualism.

@cesare, that blog makes some good points,

not yours is it?

 

[cesare]

As much as the BNP, NF and BPP are despicable extreme organisations - by far the biggest threat at the moment to the working class of all colours is those who actually have their hands on the levers of power, be they new labour or new tories - it’s their policies and behaviour that have given rise to the kind of conditions that have allowed parties like the BNP to flourish - the political abandonment by a supposedly pro working class party of their natural constituents in favour of narrow middle class middle england and the continuation and deepening of thatcherite neo-liberal policies by new labour led to a massive political vacuum as all three mainstream parties fell over themselves to ape each others policies and chase after the slither of marginal middle class middle england issues/constituencies where general elections were won & lost and delivered to the successful party the right to administer neo-liberal policies on behalf of capital

Vacuum’s, in politics, are always eventually filled - the Left in the UK proved their complete and utter incapability to do so with a parallel disengagement from what should be their natural constituency almost aping that of the mainstream parties - the issues of the working class in the UK were just not sexy or international enough for the largely academic/intellectual left who became blind to the very real issues confronting the working class in this country. The working class of this country had failed ‘The Left’ who were constantly jumping from pillar to post looking for a new agent of change whether that be students, muslims or a retreat into academic left intellectualism/ineffectualism.

@cesare, that blog makes some good points,

not yours is it?

No, it's not mine. Melinda first found it and posted it on a different thread but I thought it had some relevence on this one too. Turns out it's a MATB poster's blog.

 

[treelover]

The thing is, soon with the May elections, the left and the union, etc, will be flooding the web and the letterbox with demands about the BNP, when they have done little about the issues which is leading to their, the BNP's. rise.

 

[Nigel]

Nigel can't see a tory cock without wanting to suck it.

I'll think you'll find these attitudes from both left and right, including Beveridge himself.(who was a liberal I beleive)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beveridge_Report
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1950045
The Report offered three guiding principles to its recommendations:

1. Proposals for the future should not limited by "sectional interests" in learning from experience and that a "revolutionary moment in the world's history is a time for revolutions, not for patching".

2. Social insurance is only one part of a "comprehensive policy of social progress". The five giants on the road to reconstruction were WANT, DISEASE, IGNORANCE, SQUALOR AND IDLENESS.

3. Policies of social security "must be achieved by co-operation between the State and the individual", with the state securing the service and contributions. The state " should not stifle incentive, opportunity, responsibility; in establishing a national minimum, it should leave room and encouragement for voluntary action by each individual to provide more than that minimum for himself and his family".

 

[brasicritique]

The thing is, soon with the May elections, the left and the union, etc, will be flooding the web and the letterbox with demands about the BNP, when they have done little about the issues which is leading to their, the BNP's. rise.

exactly and given the current stanc eby many on th eleft over the strikes th efar right will be luaghing all the way to th eballot box

 

[Kaka Tim]

3. Policies of social security "must be achieved by co-operation between the State and the individual", with the state securing the service and contributions. The state " should not stifle incentive, opportunity, responsibility; in establishing a national minimum, it should leave room and encouragement for voluntary action by each individual to provide more than that minimum for himself and his family".

Well that bits been utterly forgotten over the years.

If your on benefits you can earn a princely £5 before its deducted from the pittance you recieve. Should be changed to at least £50 immediately. Would have a major beneficial effect on for millions of the poorest people in the country and save a fortune in persucting people doing a days cash in hand in order to survive.

 

[tangentlama]

"White" is not a 'race'.

 

[likesfish]

but "black " apprantly is

 

[Nigel]

Well that bits been utterly forgotten over the years.

If your on benefits you can earn a princely £5 before its deducted from the pittance you recieve. Should be changed to at least £50 immediately. Would have a major beneficial effect on for millions of the poorest people in the country and save a fortune in persucting people doing a days cash in hand in order to survive.

Best thing would be to get them off long term benefit culture and that mindset completely.
But I agree with what you are saying, does'nt really encourage people to work if you are taking a large proportion of their benefits away from them, however, does this effect housing benefit?

 

[trevhagl]

Wouldn't it be a better idea to create work for people to go to instead of blaming the unemployed for their own problems? Aren't New Labour meant to be adopting Roosevelt's New Deal ideas?

Hazel Blears is ... there are no words to describe the weary tiredness and cringeing that overcomes me every time she opens her mouth. She would make a very good school prefect (if they still had them) at a posh all girls school.

Couldn't agree more. But New Labour are all about the stick not the carrot. THEY will never be in a situation where they're hounded into a shit job they don't want, they are all loaded, no wonder they talk like that....fuck knows how they came to join what used to be a working class party...