The Virtues: Shane Meadows

[Johnny Vodka]

What else has he done?

Off the top of my head: Kes, My Name is Joe, The Wind That Shakes the Barley, Sweet Sixteen..

 

[Edie]

So, you have respect for a character who treats his ex and child well, but have none for a guy who's ill, has had his disability benefits stopped, can't navigate the new computer based claim bollocks, yet helps a woman who's been sanctioned and in desperate need. Tops up her gas and electricity even though he's in the same shit?
It was a film that should never had to be made, yet here we are. I didn't see any self pitying in the film. I seen people struggling and trying to help each other in a community completely fucking bereft.

What I’m discussing is the way they’re portrayed.

 

[Sprocket.]

That was a tough watch. Some bits were far too close and upsetting.
We look back on our yesterdays sometimes through rose tinted glasses, but there are other shadows there that need leaving alone. Very touching scenes and some that had me shuddering. Might have to build up to watching the rest. Awesome acting but also jarring in its content.

 

[skyscraper101]

I'm still trying to decide whether I liked the scenes of him leaving the pub and getting absolutely hammered, or whether the head cam stuff was a bit cliche.

 

[Chilli.s]

A hard watch, always feel a bit grubby and too voyeuristic with SM things. No doubting its strengths though, quite an achievement in it's reality. Looking forward to the next episode.

 

[Part 2]

Here's the Front Row piece for anyone who hasn't heard it.

Front Row - Stephen Graham, new Poet Laureate Simon Armitage, ENO's Dido - BBC Sounds

 

[Smokeandsteam]

What I’m discussing is the way they’re portrayed.

That's precisely it. SM characters feel real. KL's often feel like an idealised view of ordinary people as imagined by a member of the middle class.

 

[Edie]

That's precisely it. SM characters feel real. KL's often feel like an idealised view of ordinary people as imagined by a member of the middle class.

Yeh

 

[Calamity1971]

That's precisely it. SM characters feel real. KL's often feel like an idealised view of ordinary people as imagined by a member of the middle class.

Ahhhh, I can understand that. I'll still vouch for loach though. I must re watch Cathy come home (be 30 years since I watched that) and see how that's faired over the years.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Ahhhh, I can understand that. I'll still vouch for loach though. I must re watch Cathy come home (be 30 years since I watched that) and see how that's faired over the years.

I've enjoyed a lot of his work, but I've definitely felt what Edie has more than once. He's outside of the class and it shows - specifically, he makes WC characters unworldly in their decency and often without any flaws. He also makes their enemies very one dimensional and cartoonish. At its worst, it objectively detracts from the point the film is seeking to make.

 

[Edie]

I've enjoyed a lot of his work, but I've definitely felt what Edie has more than once. He's outside of the class and it shows - specifically, he makes WC characters unworldly in their decency and often without any flaws. He also makes their enemies very dimensional and cartoonish. At its worst, it objectively detracts from the point the film is seeking to make.

It’s patronising

 

[D'wards]

I get the idea KL drives up to the studio,

"DAHHHHLING, believe me I SO understand the working classes"

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Ken Loach: blame 'fake left' politicians like Miliband and Blair for gig economy

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Ken Loach: blame 'fake left' politicians like Miliband and Blair for gig economy

The idea that Miliband is in any way a decisive figure in the development of precarious work and/or the gig economy is frankly barking. It disastrously overlooks the existence of an economic system and series of long run social, economic and political processes interlinking, overlapping and influencing each other and reduces them to ideas of an individual like the ex-leader of an opposition party.

Loach clearly has an almost childlike political outlook. A world where there are goodies and baddies and binary choices. It’s embarrassing stuff frankly.

 

[Edie]

I get the idea KL drives up to the studio,

"DAHHHHLING, believe me I SO understand the working classes"

Then they’ll brain storm on post its, no wait youve got to get in ‘forced prostitution’ before the ‘tear jerking crematorium speech’.

 

[Orang Utan]

I appreciate the criticism of Loach, but what was portrayed in I, Daniel Blake was spot on and the characters convincing - some people really are that kind and good, especially those with little to give themselves.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Then they’ll brain storm on post its, no wait youve got to get in ‘forced prostitution’ before the ‘tear jerking crematorium speech’.

I remember getting this sort of stuff from students - in the SWSs or similar - who arrived in cities like mine with clear ideas about the working class, what they are, what they think and how they live and expecting to be received as saviours.

The thing is exposure to the working class proper tended to disabuse them of the ideas they had developed whilst incubated in their bubbles of privilege and after a few years they’d normally wise up, a bit. Loach seems to have reached old age with his fantasies intact.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I appreciate the criticism of Loach, but what was portrayed in I, Daniel Blake was spot on and the characters convincing - some people really are that kind and good, especially those with little to give themselves.

Yes. Of course. But they are still humans. Flawed, sometimes wrong and capable of good and bad.

 

[Sprocket.]

I might not watch anymore and just watch Chernobyl, I think that may have a more hopeful ending.

 

[telbert]

I watched tonight and found it quite difficult to watch. He was so brilliantly devastated and empty. It really touched me.

Hes got the saddest/most pained beleivable face on tv. Rapidly become on of my favourite people to watch

 

[Chilli.s]

Funnily enough I saw Stephen Graham in two other things last week, This is England and Yardie he is very believable in his performances, top acting.

 

[sojourner]

Watched this last night. Pair of us ripped in bits afterwards. Quality writing and acting

I fucking love Ken Loach btw - never found him patronising or owt. I think he's always brought the spotlight onto stuff he cares deeply about, and I admire him for that.

 

[D'wards]

Stephen Graham has quietly become a superb actor with a superb cv.

He played Al Capone brilliantly in Boardwalk Empire for years.

He's also in the new Scorcese film with De Niro, Pacino, Pesci and Keitel. Mob drama called The Irishman. Cannae wait for that

 

[Mrs Miggins]

Stephen Graham has quietly become a superb actor with a superb cv.

Yes he really has.

 

[D'wards]

Yes he really has.

I recall first seeing him years ago in a channel 4 short series about English lads working in mid war Iraq.
I can distinctly remember one scene where he comes upon a tank and to prove he's not a suicide bomber he stripped naked in the street in panic

 

[neonwilderness]

Another good episode tonight, tough watch though. SM likes to drag scenes out as long as possible which makes it worse.

He still managed to fit in a few funny moments though. “Where’s Cilla Black when you need her?”

 

[D'wards]

I'm loving it, but gawd its grim. I can see it only getting grimmer too.

The strange grey guy, he was an older boy in the home? Also a victim or a perpetrator?

 

[neonwilderness]

One or the other

I’ve just realised that Anna is the nurse from TIE 88/90. I thought I recognised her in the trailer, but couldn’t place her.

 

[D'wards]

One or the other

I’ve just realised that Anna is the nurse from TIE 88/90. I thought I recognised her in the trailer, but couldn’t place her.

Ah yes of course. Shane likes his regulars

 

[Part 2]

I'm loving it, but gawd its grim. I can see it only getting grimmer too.

The strange grey guy, he was an older boy in the home? Also a victim or a perpetrator?

Another victim. I though that scene was great, was completely expecting Joe to lose it after he was told about the flashing and it felt like something was coming but it all changed when he found the fella someone like him.

It's really brave telly (I might have said that last week), with it being so slow paced and lots of time to think about what's going on. My son said the first 5 minutes where he's just walking was too much for telly but I really got the feeling of someone who's always been on his own and finds it difficult to fit in anywhere. I expect there'll be people who'll say the whole thing could have been done in a 90 minute film come the end but scenes like the long discussion with his sister have a really natural feel to them. It's probably more annoying that it's on channel 4 and one scene like that can fill the whole slot between adverts.