nino_savatte
No pasaran!
The only one "yapping shite" is you. Stop sniping and following me around or I will report you.
The Underbelly of Israel, Part I...
- Thread starter rachamim18
- Start date
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Will the pair of you kindly stop talking to each other in general please, if you have nothing else to do apart from bickering.
I see nothing wrong with the topic of this thread, or, for that matter, taking issue with the political characterisation of a newspaper, either. Certainly no cause to dive in and demand someone stay on topic.
I see nothing wrong with the topic of this thread, or, for that matter, taking issue with the political characterisation of a newspaper, either. Certainly no cause to dive in and demand someone stay on topic.
Nino: "Rachamim's story on the 'Camel Beuaty Contest' was nothing more than 'Laugh At the Silly Arabs'.": If anything , perhaps one could argue it was "Laugh with THE Arabs" with the word "silly" being nowhere to be found.. In actual;ity Nino, yes that dreaded concept, it was nothing of the wort. Arabs authored it in case it passed you by (it was taken from "Ya Libnan" which is a very progressive Politics and News site, in mostly English language based in Beirut).
What I found so very interesting was how the U75ers took it. First let me offer my actual rationale in posting it; See my current offering? "Israel's Underbelly"? People tend to see the Mid-East in very black and white terms. All the more so on this incredibly left leaning website. My idea was to expose others to "Human Interest" issues that take place in the region so as to show and prove that we are not all gun carrying nuts out for blood.
Sadly, peoples' preconceived prejudies and inherent biases', including some some Mods did not allow the thread to take a natural course. It became, as I predicted, just another hate filled screed. And here is the thing, people accused me of making it so! People like yourself seem to impress upon me their own fears and prejudices concerning various demographics. "Rach is racist because he posted VERBATIM an Arab news story concerning an ANCIENT CULTURAL affectation PRACTICED BY ARABS." The ironoy is just TOO rich to even touch upon.
Spy: Yes, "White Slvery" is the English phrase I think that describes it neatly. In fasct it used to be part of the US PEnal Code. IF there is a modernism to replace it, please let me know.
Israel has a terrible problem, mostly with the more recent Organised Crime emanating from the former USSR in the traficking of women, non-Jewish almost always and this unfortunately, aside from being a human tragedy, opens up the community to alot of vile prejudicial nonsense.
Our legal system does not come near to addressing the issue in any acceptable way althoough it is quickly becoming a national concern. Israel is rarely the poor girls' final destination, often sold down the line into the Arab World where they live incredibly sad lives. Sometimes though the pipeline works in the other direction and these non-Jewish Eastern European girls are sent westward into the EU or even the Americas.
I will probably do a thread on it if this does not devolve into a "Camel" thread, etc.
I need to add I see, not so much for you Spy as for others, some more about Ha'aretz. IF Nino,et al have bothered to research the paper's history, and then their editorial policy over the ensuing years they would see just why I termed it "hard left." "Hard Left" is merely a relative term though because in some circles GW Bush would be left of left, right. right? Israel has a very vibrant political spectrum though and the label is apt by any sense of the term.
Nino: I have to add, while I do not support sniping, I think it is curious how you react when Spy dishes it out to you. Perhaps now you might seee things a tad bit differently? Now, back to the thread...
Finally, at the end, decent moderation. LEt us hope it stays that way.
What I found so very interesting was how the U75ers took it. First let me offer my actual rationale in posting it; See my current offering? "Israel's Underbelly"? People tend to see the Mid-East in very black and white terms. All the more so on this incredibly left leaning website. My idea was to expose others to "Human Interest" issues that take place in the region so as to show and prove that we are not all gun carrying nuts out for blood.
Sadly, peoples' preconceived prejudies and inherent biases', including some some Mods did not allow the thread to take a natural course. It became, as I predicted, just another hate filled screed. And here is the thing, people accused me of making it so! People like yourself seem to impress upon me their own fears and prejudices concerning various demographics. "Rach is racist because he posted VERBATIM an Arab news story concerning an ANCIENT CULTURAL affectation PRACTICED BY ARABS." The ironoy is just TOO rich to even touch upon.
Spy: Yes, "White Slvery" is the English phrase I think that describes it neatly. In fasct it used to be part of the US PEnal Code. IF there is a modernism to replace it, please let me know.
Israel has a terrible problem, mostly with the more recent Organised Crime emanating from the former USSR in the traficking of women, non-Jewish almost always and this unfortunately, aside from being a human tragedy, opens up the community to alot of vile prejudicial nonsense.
Our legal system does not come near to addressing the issue in any acceptable way althoough it is quickly becoming a national concern. Israel is rarely the poor girls' final destination, often sold down the line into the Arab World where they live incredibly sad lives. Sometimes though the pipeline works in the other direction and these non-Jewish Eastern European girls are sent westward into the EU or even the Americas.
I will probably do a thread on it if this does not devolve into a "Camel" thread, etc.
I need to add I see, not so much for you Spy as for others, some more about Ha'aretz. IF Nino,et al have bothered to research the paper's history, and then their editorial policy over the ensuing years they would see just why I termed it "hard left." "Hard Left" is merely a relative term though because in some circles GW Bush would be left of left, right. right? Israel has a very vibrant political spectrum though and the label is apt by any sense of the term.
Nino: I have to add, while I do not support sniping, I think it is curious how you react when Spy dishes it out to you. Perhaps now you might seee things a tad bit differently? Now, back to the thread...
Finally, at the end, decent moderation. LEt us hope it stays that way.
Well, the man behind the failed hit in Bat Yam, Crime Boss Itzik Abergil was being released this morning, at the National Fraud Unit in my hometown of Bat Yam when he was immediately taken into custody by Lahav #443 Unit.
Lahav 443 is a baran new Bureaua in Israel that started up on Western New Year this year, 2008. It combines elements of 4 Bureaus , which are still in operation: International Crimes, Security and Economic Crimes, Etgar Car Theft Bureaua of General Crime, and National Fraud, whose parent Bureaua (National Fraud) was the original Bureaua taking Abergil into custody.
As Itzik was arrested 443 simaltaneously arrested 5 members of his "Family," which now numbers over 100 "made" soldiers and a few hundred close Associates. The 5: 2 of his biological family, brothers Meir who is 2nd in command, and Yitzchak, along with made soldiers Moshe Malool, Yisroel Oozeefa, and Sasoon Barashee.
Lahav has made the arrests at the behest of the American FBI which now has their sights on the Abergil's for their copious heroin importations into the States as well as their transfer of "white slaves" (I am not sure on the English for prostitutes who are sold like slaves, if another poster knows the English I would appreciate it).
The FBI also wants these 6, to start with, for RICO, which is a US Federal Statute for "Cotinuing Criminal Enterprise," AKA "Organised Crime." RICO is a statute adopted in the late 80s at the behsest of former NYC Mayor and US Presidential hopeful, and then US District Atty for the NY Southern District, which covers NYC, Rudy Giuliani. Giuliani made his bones gunning for NYC LCN (La Cosa Nostra, AKA Sicilian Organised Crime which now has absorbed all Italian Organised Crime in the States, but not Canada which still has more traditional Napolitan and Cabreze Organised Crime in its original forms).
NYC, for those that care has 5 "Families" (Genovese, Bonnano, Lucchese, Colombo, and of course Gambino) along with the Northern NJ family, (the DeCalvacantes) which operate in the city as well.
If the FBI files the official extradition request (they now have 60 days according to Israeli Law), Itzik Abergil will be the 2nd Israeli Organised Crime leader to fall prey to the Americans. The first was Ze'ev Rosenstein who is perhaps better known because in his time he controlled MDMA to the tunes of 50 million tabs per shipment into the US and ALLEGEDLY 22 other nations. He also ALLEGEDLY operated many labs in SE Asia and the EU (Netherlands and Belgium, and then southern Spain).
Rosenstein was sent to the US under extradition under narcotics (MDMA) and of course RICO.
However, Rosenstein was not the first to be extradited from Israel, just the first ISRAELI Organised Crime Boss. The FIRST CRIKME BOSS, and the man who is single handeedly responsible for both out current fuc$%d up extradition deal with the American, Jewish Organised Crime Boss from the US Meir Lansky.
Lansky came under the American gun in the late 60s/early 70s and decided time was just perfect for Aliyah (when Jews return permantly to the Homeland, Israel and take citizenship). In 1955 the Universal "Law of Return" was ammended by forward thinking K'nesset members who legilstaed that any criminal (generally interpreted as criminals with offenses against people, such as rapists and murderers) and mentally ill (generally interpreted as the Criminally Insane) would ever after be subject to exclusion on a case by case basis.
So, Lansky became our first Aliyot to be rejected under the 1955 Ammendment and after exhausting his appeals (he naturally had many supporters) was sent back to the States.
After Lansky there was one other case of Organised Crime extradition BEFORE Rosenstein's case. A 17 year old Maryland (US) born Jew named Shmuel "Smauel" Sheinbein was involved with another Jewish kid by the name of Needle. The focus of their enrgies involved drugs but it was organised not in the sense of OC, but merely a loose confederation of same aged suburban youth, from the same Maryland area.
Needle had been using a local Hispanic youngster as a "connection" buut one day, while Needle was in the car with this youth, Tello, the Hispanic youth began taunting him for being Jewish (according to a few witnesses). Doing this in front of a Chinese-American geirl Needle liked caused him and Sheinbein to waste Tello the next day. They gutted him to the point that when he was dicsovered in garbage bags, in pieces, they thought he was a "butchered deer."
Needle and Sheinbein came under suscpicion nd before they were caught Sheinbein made his way to Israel, but Needle was caught, incarcerated where he committed suicide (ALLEGEDLY) by hanging. Sheinbein's case was complicated by the fact that his dad was an Israeli citizen which confers automatic citizenship (as it did with me) without applying for Aliyah.
Because of a charcter count I better wrap this up in a following post...
Lahav 443 is a baran new Bureaua in Israel that started up on Western New Year this year, 2008. It combines elements of 4 Bureaus , which are still in operation: International Crimes, Security and Economic Crimes, Etgar Car Theft Bureaua of General Crime, and National Fraud, whose parent Bureaua (National Fraud) was the original Bureaua taking Abergil into custody.
As Itzik was arrested 443 simaltaneously arrested 5 members of his "Family," which now numbers over 100 "made" soldiers and a few hundred close Associates. The 5: 2 of his biological family, brothers Meir who is 2nd in command, and Yitzchak, along with made soldiers Moshe Malool, Yisroel Oozeefa, and Sasoon Barashee.
Lahav has made the arrests at the behest of the American FBI which now has their sights on the Abergil's for their copious heroin importations into the States as well as their transfer of "white slaves" (I am not sure on the English for prostitutes who are sold like slaves, if another poster knows the English I would appreciate it).
The FBI also wants these 6, to start with, for RICO, which is a US Federal Statute for "Cotinuing Criminal Enterprise," AKA "Organised Crime." RICO is a statute adopted in the late 80s at the behsest of former NYC Mayor and US Presidential hopeful, and then US District Atty for the NY Southern District, which covers NYC, Rudy Giuliani. Giuliani made his bones gunning for NYC LCN (La Cosa Nostra, AKA Sicilian Organised Crime which now has absorbed all Italian Organised Crime in the States, but not Canada which still has more traditional Napolitan and Cabreze Organised Crime in its original forms).
NYC, for those that care has 5 "Families" (Genovese, Bonnano, Lucchese, Colombo, and of course Gambino) along with the Northern NJ family, (the DeCalvacantes) which operate in the city as well.
If the FBI files the official extradition request (they now have 60 days according to Israeli Law), Itzik Abergil will be the 2nd Israeli Organised Crime leader to fall prey to the Americans. The first was Ze'ev Rosenstein who is perhaps better known because in his time he controlled MDMA to the tunes of 50 million tabs per shipment into the US and ALLEGEDLY 22 other nations. He also ALLEGEDLY operated many labs in SE Asia and the EU (Netherlands and Belgium, and then southern Spain).
Rosenstein was sent to the US under extradition under narcotics (MDMA) and of course RICO.
However, Rosenstein was not the first to be extradited from Israel, just the first ISRAELI Organised Crime Boss. The FIRST CRIKME BOSS, and the man who is single handeedly responsible for both out current fuc$%d up extradition deal with the American, Jewish Organised Crime Boss from the US Meir Lansky.
Lansky came under the American gun in the late 60s/early 70s and decided time was just perfect for Aliyah (when Jews return permantly to the Homeland, Israel and take citizenship). In 1955 the Universal "Law of Return" was ammended by forward thinking K'nesset members who legilstaed that any criminal (generally interpreted as criminals with offenses against people, such as rapists and murderers) and mentally ill (generally interpreted as the Criminally Insane) would ever after be subject to exclusion on a case by case basis.
So, Lansky became our first Aliyot to be rejected under the 1955 Ammendment and after exhausting his appeals (he naturally had many supporters) was sent back to the States.
After Lansky there was one other case of Organised Crime extradition BEFORE Rosenstein's case. A 17 year old Maryland (US) born Jew named Shmuel "Smauel" Sheinbein was involved with another Jewish kid by the name of Needle. The focus of their enrgies involved drugs but it was organised not in the sense of OC, but merely a loose confederation of same aged suburban youth, from the same Maryland area.
Needle had been using a local Hispanic youngster as a "connection" buut one day, while Needle was in the car with this youth, Tello, the Hispanic youth began taunting him for being Jewish (according to a few witnesses). Doing this in front of a Chinese-American geirl Needle liked caused him and Sheinbein to waste Tello the next day. They gutted him to the point that when he was dicsovered in garbage bags, in pieces, they thought he was a "butchered deer."
Needle and Sheinbein came under suscpicion nd before they were caught Sheinbein made his way to Israel, but Needle was caught, incarcerated where he committed suicide (ALLEGEDLY) by hanging. Sheinbein's case was complicated by the fact that his dad was an Israeli citizen which confers automatic citizenship (as it did with me) without applying for Aliyah.
Because of a charcter count I better wrap this up in a following post...
PART II to a previous post...
To regress...In 1978, then PM Menachem Begin (Likud) pushed an "Executive Order" that sidestepped K'nesset Legislation. He made it impossible for a Jewish Israeli to be extradited for trial in a non-Jewish Nation (i.e. made extradition impossible). He believed, in fact was obsessed, that a Jew could never be assured of a fiar trial by a non-Jew.
This is attributed, by pop-psychologists to his youth in which as a Betar leader (Betar being the Revisionist Youth Group, Revisionists being the sometimes violent Jewish extreme right wing just short of Kahanism) he was arrested in Latvia (he was born in Poland) by the foreunner of the Soviet KGB. His crime? Being a Jewish Nationalist in the wrong era.
Then he was marked by his time in the Irgun, being a major terrorist in the Yishuv (Pre-Statehood Israel).
The case that caused this order was a Swiss case involving a Jewish financial swindler who robbed 10 million in that nation and fled home.
So...in Sheinbein's case he was held in limbo in Israel and finaslly after almost 3 years allowed to plead to a deal to serve his time in Israel. The case was a Precedent and now an Israeli may only be extradited to ANY nation with the understading that AFTER he is convicted he will be immediately repatriated to Israel to serve his or her time. In reality this is only applied to the US where repatriation can currently be assured.
Getting back to Rosenstein, he was sentenced to 12 years in the US after a lengthly trial (I believe in total it took 3 years in the US) and then sent home to serve it. He is currently in our toughest prison, Ayalon located in Raml'e. Ayalon some posters might remember is now home to the Kahanist assasin of Rabin. It is VERY tough BUT conjugal visits are allowed, as the Rabin murderer has enjyed so all in all, not too shabby I suppose.
Not like our Army Prisons anyway...
To regress...In 1978, then PM Menachem Begin (Likud) pushed an "Executive Order" that sidestepped K'nesset Legislation. He made it impossible for a Jewish Israeli to be extradited for trial in a non-Jewish Nation (i.e. made extradition impossible). He believed, in fact was obsessed, that a Jew could never be assured of a fiar trial by a non-Jew.
This is attributed, by pop-psychologists to his youth in which as a Betar leader (Betar being the Revisionist Youth Group, Revisionists being the sometimes violent Jewish extreme right wing just short of Kahanism) he was arrested in Latvia (he was born in Poland) by the foreunner of the Soviet KGB. His crime? Being a Jewish Nationalist in the wrong era.
Then he was marked by his time in the Irgun, being a major terrorist in the Yishuv (Pre-Statehood Israel).
The case that caused this order was a Swiss case involving a Jewish financial swindler who robbed 10 million in that nation and fled home.
So...in Sheinbein's case he was held in limbo in Israel and finaslly after almost 3 years allowed to plead to a deal to serve his time in Israel. The case was a Precedent and now an Israeli may only be extradited to ANY nation with the understading that AFTER he is convicted he will be immediately repatriated to Israel to serve his or her time. In reality this is only applied to the US where repatriation can currently be assured.
Getting back to Rosenstein, he was sentenced to 12 years in the US after a lengthly trial (I believe in total it took 3 years in the US) and then sent home to serve it. He is currently in our toughest prison, Ayalon located in Raml'e. Ayalon some posters might remember is now home to the Kahanist assasin of Rabin. It is VERY tough BUT conjugal visits are allowed, as the Rabin murderer has enjyed so all in all, not too shabby I suppose.
Not like our Army Prisons anyway...
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Another essay? Your threads about Arab camel contests are nothing less than what I described them as: thinly veiled racism.
Ha'aretz is about as "hard left" as The Times...it isn't.
Nino: Thank you for that stirring insight.
So, "Camel Beauty Contests" are nothing but "thinly veiled racism?" Pray tell Nino, what do you consider THIS thread to be? Racism towards Jews? Israelis?
As I stated, my goal in both of these threads was to show people a side of life that they obviously would not have seen otherwise. The Mid-East is too often seen as purely black and white, bloodletting and violence.
The fact that a faew posters saw the "Camel" thread as racist belies more than simple ignorance on their part, it also shows their inherent racism. White Guilt...Ever hear that phrase Nino?
Lebanese ARABS wrote that article and its title and yet I was ripped for posting it! U75 is so predictable, and that is very sad. Perhaps people will grow though and realise that not everyone is thinking like they are.
So, "Camel Beauty Contests" are nothing but "thinly veiled racism?" Pray tell Nino, what do you consider THIS thread to be? Racism towards Jews? Israelis?
As I stated, my goal in both of these threads was to show people a side of life that they obviously would not have seen otherwise. The Mid-East is too often seen as purely black and white, bloodletting and violence.
The fact that a faew posters saw the "Camel" thread as racist belies more than simple ignorance on their part, it also shows their inherent racism. White Guilt...Ever hear that phrase Nino?
Lebanese ARABS wrote that article and its title and yet I was ripped for posting it! U75 is so predictable, and that is very sad. Perhaps people will grow though and realise that not everyone is thinking like they are.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
You talk such interminable shite.
Will our oh so capable Mods act on your insult? Of course not, only people who see things differently than them have such an honour. thank you nino for illustrating yet another glaring nugget of U75 truth.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Since when has been accusing someone of talking shit been an insult?
Oh hang on....is this the same school of thought that dictates critics of Israel are anti semitic or displaying some sort of bias....yes welcome to the world of Rach's logic.
Grandma: "Since when is accusing a person of 'talking shi%' an insult?": I have no doubt that you honestly see things in that fashion but it always has been for civil and mature individuals.
"It is the same way of thinking that derides all critics of Israel as being anti-Jewish, etc.": There have been a couple of threads in this very forum, since you have been here in fact, that revolved around that idea. If you had bothered to internalise those threads, you would know that I certainly wish for criticism of Israel. Constructive Criticism is extrtemely healthy for a democracy and I applaud serious critics IF they base their words on actual facts and not ideological bullshi#.
In that same vein, many anti-Jews use such criticism to veil their nonsense in a PC sheen and it is disgusting.
"Welcome to Rach's logic.": I dare say you should be thankful you ever come close to any logic given your posts thus far. Keep up the great work!
"It is the same way of thinking that derides all critics of Israel as being anti-Jewish, etc.": There have been a couple of threads in this very forum, since you have been here in fact, that revolved around that idea. If you had bothered to internalise those threads, you would know that I certainly wish for criticism of Israel. Constructive Criticism is extrtemely healthy for a democracy and I applaud serious critics IF they base their words on actual facts and not ideological bullshi#.
In that same vein, many anti-Jews use such criticism to veil their nonsense in a PC sheen and it is disgusting.
"Welcome to Rach's logic.": I dare say you should be thankful you ever come close to any logic given your posts thus far. Keep up the great work!
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
You're still talking shite. 
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Well what other fashion would you suggest I look at it from OTHER than accusing someone of talking shit is an observation-its not an insult.
Jesus who needs Nytol
Grandma: I am not surpised that you do not even know the definition fo the word "insult." Better hit the books. Well, maybe you are extremely young. It might make more sense I suppose.
"Who needs Nytol?": What is "Nytol?"
"Who needs Nytol?": What is "Nytol?"
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
You're just being obtuse now. What a surprise.
Google it-the information is there and ready to hand. I like it when people do their own leg work.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I spent almost a year travelling by road through parts of the US from Minnesota to New York state, and of the hundreds of people I got to know well, of all social classes, not one of them thought that shit was an insult, in fact for most of the adult Americans I met (as with most Europeans, Africans, Antipodeans and Asians of various points of the compass, it was a word in extremely common usage as merely either a qualifier or descriptor.
Yes, of course you do.
Or rather, you applaud anything that supports your own preconceptions, but decry anything that doesn't, however many facts it's founded on.
In the very same vein many pro-Zionists attempt to render any criticism of the state of Israel as Judaeophobia. That too is disgusting.
I hate to be the one to inform you, but he's not implying that your posts are logical, merely that they are sustained by a "logic" internal to you that makes no sense to anyone external to it. He's actually implying that your "logic" is mere self-justification.
Grandma: "Nytol." Hahaha, you got me there. OK, I "practiced what I preach" and find it is one of those OTC expectorants with a sleep aid. Sorry but I am definitely NOT in need for more sedation hahaha. Thanks anyway.
Panda: While I did not grow up in American Culture I did work seasonally in heavy construction there for more than 11 years, and also served a moderate prison sentence in that nation, blah, blah, and blah. I am more than familiar with insults of every stripe. The word "shi^" is a definite expletive. Indeed, if a cop can you arrest you for using it loudly (Disorderly Conduct, rarely enforced in that vein) or when you use it towards another in anger (Disorserly Conduct, more often utilised as well as Verbal Assault among other things although they generally never use the latter).
I am sure, being as familiar with so many aspects of the English language that you surely do not need me to tell you it ios a negative word and highly insulting. One COULD use it sarcastically, as in "Do not be a shi$," said with a smile but then online noone can use your mood as proper context.
The word is not aceptable in good company, I am sure you would not want it uttered to your mother or wife, so why would you even make this silly argument.
My attitude is thus: If I am not willing to say it to an armed man, I would not say it to a handicapped 90 year old, or any other person. ALL PEOPLE deserve the same civility, in life and in cyberspace. It is PART of the reason why I use all my real information online. It helps keep me grounded in reality and in civility.
As for Asia, where have you ever heard it in use? I live in SE, am from SW, and do not know anyplace that this would be true. All cultures and languages have expletives, and the idiomatic equivalent is considered poor taste at the very least in every nation I have ever been in both in and out of Asia.
"Rachamim supports anything said on Israel, as long as it fits into his ideological slant.": Not at all. If I get along with Amos OZ just fine, what would make you say that. Granted, you do not know me in real life and given the nature of this forum you might find me to be a certain way but I still imagine I have explained more than enough of my views to allow you to understand that I am all for the freedom of expression, and indeed have very real criticisms of Israel myself.
However, when people base their criticisms on pure and utter nonsense, like Spion often does (not to call him out but he is a fine example for my point). Spion, and others, have ideological stances that do not permit honest and open consideration of anything outside their ideology. I on the other hand, even when I was a registered emmber of KACH, never tried to shuit down dissent, nor make others carry my VIEWS.
Views are opinions, facts are facts. IF someone says, "I feel Israel treats Arabs unfairly, " as you have done, I counter that they should offer specific grievances. They rarely do. When they do bother to do so, if I know that factually they are incorrect I offer information supporting my contention.
When someone shows me a picture of a 6 meter high hole, 15 meters wide and tells me an M113 did it by smashing through a brick facade (as another poster is doing currently), I simply respond factually and that has nothing to do with my politics. People arguing otherwise are not doing so in a case of true or false but in hopes of portrayting Israel in a certain light. Since I myself criticise Israel, I do not need people to ape my viewpoint as you suggest. All I want is factual information and fair exchange of ideas. Too much to expect I suppose.
I am all for democracy, and that being what it is how could you ever imagine me as trying to stifle others' free expression?
"Some Zionists view any criticism of Israel or Zionism as hatred of Jews and things Jewish.": Yes, surely there are some, but not many. 2 Jews equal 3 opinions, over and over and over. Most Jews , virtually all have strong criticisms of Israel on many different levels but underneath that criticism is a willingness to work to make it better whereas most non-Jewish critics have other ambitions.
Face it, a nation you can drive the length of in less than 4 hours is not a huge place. There are less than 7 million people there including ALL demographics anmd yet it is always in the news. The UK is the epicenter of non-Arab criticism of Israel, but not criticism per se. Criticism would be fine, the UK is home to organisations trying to inact cultural, artistic, and academic embargos against Israel.
Then, when one realises that Jews have never been safe and secure anyway (against haters of Jews) except in their own nation, is it any big mystery why some Jews would take ANY criticism as hatred? They are not correct to do so, certainly, yet they do have a rationale that is entirely understable.
In that same vein I have to add, I would wager MOST criticism of Israel and Zionism IS linked to hatred of Jews and anything Jewish. You will undoubtedly pooh pooh that and yet when you take things into context, the size of the nation and the People versus the criticisms,etc. it is the only sensible conclusion. The danger becomes writing everything off as invalid when SOME criticism is accurate.
"Logic.": See? This is exactly what I mean! You cannot discern emotion online (in reference to your brouhaha over the word "shi*." Ergo, you cannot hope to know I was being sarcastic. I am familiar with the phrase (sic) and soemtimes use it to denote my own use of sarcasm but it is intended, as YOU must know, to convey correct rendering of a previously misspelled (by others) word. What then should one use to convey sarcasm? Either way, not really that much of an issue.
Panda: While I did not grow up in American Culture I did work seasonally in heavy construction there for more than 11 years, and also served a moderate prison sentence in that nation, blah, blah, and blah. I am more than familiar with insults of every stripe. The word "shi^" is a definite expletive. Indeed, if a cop can you arrest you for using it loudly (Disorderly Conduct, rarely enforced in that vein) or when you use it towards another in anger (Disorserly Conduct, more often utilised as well as Verbal Assault among other things although they generally never use the latter).
I am sure, being as familiar with so many aspects of the English language that you surely do not need me to tell you it ios a negative word and highly insulting. One COULD use it sarcastically, as in "Do not be a shi$," said with a smile but then online noone can use your mood as proper context.
The word is not aceptable in good company, I am sure you would not want it uttered to your mother or wife, so why would you even make this silly argument.
My attitude is thus: If I am not willing to say it to an armed man, I would not say it to a handicapped 90 year old, or any other person. ALL PEOPLE deserve the same civility, in life and in cyberspace. It is PART of the reason why I use all my real information online. It helps keep me grounded in reality and in civility.
As for Asia, where have you ever heard it in use? I live in SE, am from SW, and do not know anyplace that this would be true. All cultures and languages have expletives, and the idiomatic equivalent is considered poor taste at the very least in every nation I have ever been in both in and out of Asia.
"Rachamim supports anything said on Israel, as long as it fits into his ideological slant.": Not at all. If I get along with Amos OZ just fine, what would make you say that. Granted, you do not know me in real life and given the nature of this forum you might find me to be a certain way but I still imagine I have explained more than enough of my views to allow you to understand that I am all for the freedom of expression, and indeed have very real criticisms of Israel myself.
However, when people base their criticisms on pure and utter nonsense, like Spion often does (not to call him out but he is a fine example for my point). Spion, and others, have ideological stances that do not permit honest and open consideration of anything outside their ideology. I on the other hand, even when I was a registered emmber of KACH, never tried to shuit down dissent, nor make others carry my VIEWS.
Views are opinions, facts are facts. IF someone says, "I feel Israel treats Arabs unfairly, " as you have done, I counter that they should offer specific grievances. They rarely do. When they do bother to do so, if I know that factually they are incorrect I offer information supporting my contention.
When someone shows me a picture of a 6 meter high hole, 15 meters wide and tells me an M113 did it by smashing through a brick facade (as another poster is doing currently), I simply respond factually and that has nothing to do with my politics. People arguing otherwise are not doing so in a case of true or false but in hopes of portrayting Israel in a certain light. Since I myself criticise Israel, I do not need people to ape my viewpoint as you suggest. All I want is factual information and fair exchange of ideas. Too much to expect I suppose.
I am all for democracy, and that being what it is how could you ever imagine me as trying to stifle others' free expression?
"Some Zionists view any criticism of Israel or Zionism as hatred of Jews and things Jewish.": Yes, surely there are some, but not many. 2 Jews equal 3 opinions, over and over and over. Most Jews , virtually all have strong criticisms of Israel on many different levels but underneath that criticism is a willingness to work to make it better whereas most non-Jewish critics have other ambitions.
Face it, a nation you can drive the length of in less than 4 hours is not a huge place. There are less than 7 million people there including ALL demographics anmd yet it is always in the news. The UK is the epicenter of non-Arab criticism of Israel, but not criticism per se. Criticism would be fine, the UK is home to organisations trying to inact cultural, artistic, and academic embargos against Israel.
Then, when one realises that Jews have never been safe and secure anyway (against haters of Jews) except in their own nation, is it any big mystery why some Jews would take ANY criticism as hatred? They are not correct to do so, certainly, yet they do have a rationale that is entirely understable.
In that same vein I have to add, I would wager MOST criticism of Israel and Zionism IS linked to hatred of Jews and anything Jewish. You will undoubtedly pooh pooh that and yet when you take things into context, the size of the nation and the People versus the criticisms,etc. it is the only sensible conclusion. The danger becomes writing everything off as invalid when SOME criticism is accurate.
"Logic.": See? This is exactly what I mean! You cannot discern emotion online (in reference to your brouhaha over the word "shi*." Ergo, you cannot hope to know I was being sarcastic. I am familiar with the phrase (sic) and soemtimes use it to denote my own use of sarcasm but it is intended, as YOU must know, to convey correct rendering of a previously misspelled (by others) word. What then should one use to convey sarcasm? Either way, not really that much of an issue.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
This is a shining example of cognitive dissonance: here, you admit that some Zionists will regard any criticism of Israel as "hatred of Jews", then you take it all back in the following sentence by reasserting your former position.
Insincere? You? Never!
Nino: I am not one to practice "pop psychology" but you certainly might be the one to change that. You certainly have a singular view of the world. I did not see where your last post made any sense whatsoever.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
What has "pop psychology" got to do with your inability to cognate? The last sentence of your post is rather typical of your evasiveness and selective blindness.
If I were you, I'd have shot myself in the head long ago.
If I were you, I'd have shot myself in the head long ago.
Promoting suicide nannie? Well I am afraid that I will have to regres to my former policy of zero tolerance and ignore every non-subject post you manage to compose. It is subject of nothing laddie, enjoy this last one-KISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS...
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Ah, he's off with the cod-Scots. But he excels himself by mocking my username. What a wit you are.
Mocking your "user name?" No!!! Had I done that I believe I might have called you "Meno Savant" or something some such.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Go fuck yourself.
Nino: Nino, Nino, Nino, I am just aghast. You need some soap, I better ring your caregiver. What on Earth crawled under your bonnet you bit you lad? "Go Fuc% myself?" I am appalled and very well might not sleep later on. I am near tears as I picture myself trying to contort into such unimaginable positions. One would think that being as well endowed as I am, that it might somehow be much easier! Au contraire mon frere!!! C'est triste mon cheri! Comment ca va? Comment allez vouz? No ami? Awwwww, mon Nino
See Nino? IF I WAS YOU, little lad, I might have reported your terms of endearment. Instead I took it from whence it came and are we not then much better off for it? Cheers Sharp One!
See Nino? IF I WAS YOU, little lad, I might have reported your terms of endearment. Instead I took it from whence it came and are we not then much better off for it? Cheers Sharp One!
editor
hiraethified
Can you not mess about with user names please? Thanks.
That is just precious. Editor I suspect you are highly cognisant of the abuse of my name on a daily basis, indeed that is what precipitated my own trampling of Precious Nino's screenname. I also am sure that you were anything but unaware about his one lined intellectual gem offering me all sorts of sexual advice but funny...you did not see fit to mention even a word on that. Hmmm...Why would I EVER imagine YOu to be biased?
"You talk such interminable shit#!"
"You're STILL talking shit#."
"Go fuc# yourself."
Ahhh, but I best not use cheeky playful HYPOTHETICAL versions of Nino's name. Got it! Thanks for the tip! Will do!!!
"You talk such interminable shit#!"
"You're STILL talking shit#."
"Go fuc# yourself."
Ahhh, but I best not use cheeky playful HYPOTHETICAL versions of Nino's name. Got it! Thanks for the tip! Will do!!!
Actually Editor you did ask very nicely so I will comply but I still had to make the previous point.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
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