The UK and the mujahedeen

[poster342002]

the taliban arent women hating, u know how many women were getting raped and murdered by the NA before they took control?

And the Taliban's 'solution' to that was to put the entire nation's women under house arrest on pain of death. Talk about blaming and punishing the victim.

 

[Blagsta]

no they didnt, drugs like heroin are clearly prohibited in Islam, thats why opium production was outlawed by the Taliban, Taliban dont give a monkeys about being recognised by the west.

You might want to check your facts.

 

[Blagsta]

can i have some proof that Taliban were involved in the heroin trade please.

btw, under Taliban control, afghanistans role in the world smack trade fell from 90% to under 5%

now we have freedom and democracy in afghanistan its back up to around the 90% mark again, despite the technology the west has such as herbicides and crop sprayers that can destroy the opium plants

You might want to check the facts. Plenty of references in this book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Politics-He...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200058750&sr=8-1

 

[ViolentPanda]

how am i supporting the us?
if they wanna send some stingers our way fair enough, they came in very handy, but the afghan mujahadeen never asked anyone but other muslims to help in the campaign, i think we all agree the us had their own agenda and it wasnt for any love of the afghan ppl.
the afghan jihad was a defensive war against foreign imperialists and the mujahideen triumphed against the worlds greatest superpower on their own doorstep, it was one of the greatest military victories of all time and the 3rd time the mujahadeen had defeated a leading imperialist superpower, the first 2 being persia and byzantium who again on paper were far superior in terms of manpower and resources, but crumbled against the discipline and steadfastness of the mujahadeen.

again, id really like to see some proof about Taliban involvement in drugs.

Read "Taliban: Islam, Oil and the Great Game in Central Asia" by Ahmed Rashid, then check the citations he gives.

btw a delegation of Taliban were invited to the white house for talks on proposed oil pipelines (that were rejected by the Taliban) shortly before 911.

As were delegations from non-Taliban-held territories that Unocal's pipeline would have run through.

 

[ViolentPanda]

any chance of a look at it?

Buy a copy of ""Taliban: Islam, Oil and the Great Game in Central Asia" by Ahmed Rashid, written over the course of nearly 20 years in Afghanistan and Pakistan, then check the citations he gives as support (from sources as diverse as Pakistani intelligence and medicins sans Frontieres) for VERY credible evidence.

Unless you'd prefer to retain your prejudices in the face of fact, that is.

 

[fattboy]

Some hardware? As i said billions of dollars is not 'some hardware'. And why do you think they were giving them this? To further the aims of 'US imperialism', to act as a proxy army. And here you are whooping it up for them, whilst crying about them doing the exact same thing today in the exact same place (not to mention iraq). I do hope that you're about 13 or somerthing.

ive made my point, i see where ur coming from, cool.

im not crying about what the us or anyone else are doing, all the problems were facing are our own fault.

 

[fattboy]

Fair enough I was being simplistic. The working class in Afghanistan is very small (but then again it was in the Russian Revolution!), but as times go by hopefully Afghanistan will become more industrialised. Also the very small working class could make alliances with the peasants. Remember that in Russia much of the population was very conservative as well.

Hopefully a progressive force would drive the Taliban out and string up their leaders.



Are you on drugs? How many times do you have to be told that it was actually a civil war.



I know what honour killings are you tosser, one of the closest people in my life had a knife held up against her throat for "honour". And at the end of the day what is the difference between the Taliban stoning a woman to death for having an affair and the family killing her? Are you seriously suggesting the Taliban had a problem with honour killings?



So because the NA were scum that makes what the Taliban did ok? That women were banned from education? That they were forced to wear burkhas? That they stoned women to death just for shagging someone outside marriage? Of course they're women haters.



Do you know anything at all about what you talk about? The USSR were supporting the Afghan government you plonker. The PDPA overthrew the monarchy and had mass backing.

As for Ridley she spouts utter rubbish, she was an embarassment even to RESPECT.

keep ur thong on

 

[butchersapron]

im not denying women or men get stoned to death in a sharia state, what im saying is that isnt an honour killing, uve misunderstood what an honour killing is.

And you support this sort of sharia state?

 

[fattboy]

You might want to check the facts. Plenty of references in this book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Politics-He...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200058750&sr=8-1

any chance of a very brief summary?

 

[fattboy]

And you support this sort of sharia state?

im not saying the taliban got everything right, but they were sincere, they did their best with the resources they had.

of course i support sharia, im a muslim.

 

[butchersapron]

So that's a yes, you do support the sort of sharia state in which women or men get stoned to death?

 

[poster342002]

im not saying the taliban got everything right, but they were sincere, they did their best with the resources they had.

They did their sincere best in using the resources they had to set up a fascist dictatorship that was the Islamist version of the Khmer Rouge.

 

[Brainaddict]

Fair enough I was being simplistic. The working class in Afghanistan is very small (but then again it was in the Russian Revolution!), but as times go by hopefully Afghanistan will become more industrialised. Also the very small working class could make alliances with the peasants. Remember that in Russia much of the population was very conservative as well.

So you want the country to be run by a group of people who don't yet exist, allying with a bunch of people who, while I have all sympathy with their situation, would believe that jews eat children if their mullah told them (and their mullah might), taking power by a route that was disastrous in every other instance it occurred, using a discredited ideology, at some point in the future though no doubt you can't say exactly when the right time will be.

Mmkay then. Really solving the problems of Afghans there. Allow me to humbly hope that none of your wishes ever come true

 

[fattboy]

listen were not some kinda psychopaths, i dont think its very pleasant and i certainly wouldnt wanna see it happen but we believe this is from our religion and were not gonna deny it to please anyone, thats what Islam says, thats what we believe, simple as.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Mmkay then. Really solving the problems of Afghans there. Allow me to humbly hope that none of your wishes ever come true

What does mmkay mean?

As said just before the Russian Revolution the working class was only about 6% of the population, it still didn't stop radical change. The working class in Afghanistan isn't non-existant it's just very small. Also I think you're patronising the Afghan people somewhat given that many supported progressive movements in the last few decades, including mass communist movements. I'm not saying I have all the answers but I think there is a better way than either the Taliban or US/UK imperialism.

keep ur thong on

Another thing banned by the Taliban. Along with music and kites.

im not saying the taliban got everything right, but they were sincere, they did their best with the resources they had.

They were sincere in trying to massacre any progressive movements (including wiping out any communists), they were sincere in stoning women to death who just wanted to have sex, they were sincere in making women wear the burkha, they were sincere in making millions of people lead miserable, frightened and empty lives. But yeah, as long as they were sincere.

You really are a prize muppet. You can stick your bigoted ideas where the sun don't shine. Luckily most muslims in this country would also think you're a crank.

 

[poster342002]

Another thing banned by the Taliban. Along with music and kites.

Don't know how true this is, but one story has it that this idiotically nasty regime even banned laughter at one point. Not that there was much to laugh about when they were in power ...

 

[Blagsta]

any chance of a very brief summary?

I've given you one already.

 

[Blagsta]

im not saying the taliban got everything right, but they were sincere, they did their best with the resources they had.

of course i support sharia, im a muslim.

Bollocks of course, seeing as not all Muslims support sharia.

 

[Blagsta]

listen were not some kinda psychopaths, i dont think its very pleasant and i certainly wouldnt wanna see it happen but we believe this is from our religion and were not gonna deny it to please anyone, thats what Islam says, thats what we believe, simple as.

You sound rather dense tbh.

 

[Brainaddict]

mmmkay is a kind of musing 'okay'.

*exits the thread upon realising that attempting rational debate with someone who holds up the russian revolution as an ideal for others to follow is a mug's game*

 

[cockneyrebel]

They were allowed neither to work nor to be educated after the age of eight,[7] and until then were permitted only to study the Qur'an.[7] Women seeking an education were forced to attend underground schools, where they and their teachers risked execution if caught.[7] They were not allowed to be treated by male doctors unless accompanied by a female chaperon, which led to illnesses remaining untreated. They faced public flogging in the street,[9] and both men and women faced public execution for violations of the Taliban's laws.

At the national level, "all senior Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara bureaucrats" were replaced "with Pashtuns, whether qualified or not. As a result of this loss of expertise, the ministries by and large ceased to function."[25] In local units of government like city councils of Kabul[26] or Herat,[27] Taliban loyalists, not locals, dominated, even when the Pashto-speaking Taliban could not communicate with the local Persian-speaking Afghans

The Taliban did not hold elections

bans on clapping during sports events, kite flying, beard trimming, or sports for women

Sharia law was interpreted to ban a wide variety of activities hitherto lawful in Afghanistan: employment and education for women, movies, television, videos, music, dancing, hanging pictures in homes, clapping during sports events.

Also:

satellite dishes, cinematography, and equipment that produces the joy of music, pool tables, chess, lobster, nail polish, firecrackers, statues, sewing catalogs, pictures

Women in particular were targets of the Taliban's notorious restrictions, prohibited from working; from wearing clothing regarded as "stimulating and attractive," including the "Iranian chador," viewed as insufficiently complete in its covering); from taking a taxi without a "close male relative"; washing clothes in streams; or having their measurements taken by tailors.[46]

Employment for women was restricted to the medical sector, since male medical personnel were not allowed to examine women. One result of the banning of employment of women by the Taliban was the closing down in places like Kabul of primary schools not only for girls but for boys, because almost all the teachers there were women.[47]

Women were also not permitted to attend co-educational schools; in practice, this prevented the vast majority of young women and girls in Afghanistan from receiving even a primary education.

Women were made to wear the burqa, a traditional dress covering the entire body except for a small screen to see out of. Taliban restrictions became more severe after they took control of the capital. In February 1998, religious police forced all women off the streets of Kabul and issued new regulations ordering "householders to blacken their windows, so women would not be visible from the outside."[48] Home schools for girls, which had been allowed to continue, were forbidden.[49] In June 1998, the Taliban stopped all women from attending general hospitals,[50] leaving the use of one all-women hospital in Kabul. There were many reports of Muslim women being beaten by the Taliban for violating the Sharia.

The worst attack on civilians came in summer of 1998 when the Taliban swept north from Herat to the predominantly Hazara and Uzbek city of Mazar-i-Sharif, the largest city in the north. Entering at 10 am on 8 August 1998, for the next two days the Taliban drove their pickup trucks "up and down the narrow streets of Mazar-i-Sharif shooting to the left and right and killing everything that moved -- shop owners, cart pullers, women and children shoppers and even goats and donkeys."[53] More than 8000 noncombatants were reported killed in Mazar-i-Sharif and later in Bamiyan.[54] Contrary to the injunctions of Islam, which demands immediate burial, the Taliban forbade anyone to bury the corpses for the first six days while they rotted in the summer heat and were eaten by dogs.[55] In addition to this indiscriminate slaughter, the Taliban sought out and massacred members of the Hazara, a mostly Shia ethnic group, while in control of Mazar.

During the years that followed, rapes and massacres of Hazara by Taliban forces were documented by groups such as Human Rights Watch.

Sincere indeed.

 

[cockneyrebel]

*exits the thread upon realising that attempting rational debate with someone who holds up the russian revolution as an ideal for others to follow is a mug's game*

Except I didn't do this at all, did I. I merely pointed out that progressive change isn't dependent on a mass working class (although it certainly helps) and that the Afghan people aren't all a bunch of numb skulls.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They did their sincere best in using the resources they had to set up a fascist dictatorship that was the Islamist version of the Khmer Rouge.

Personally I think it wasn't "fascist" as such (they didn't, after all, have any notions of Corporatism), as much as it was extremely authoritarian, and it soon degenerated, as authoritarian regimes often do, into a cult of personality based around the infallible pronouncements of Mullah Omar.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Don't know how true this is, but one story has it that this idiotically nasty regime even banned laughter at one point. Not that there was much to laugh about when they were in power ...

IIRC that wasn't actually a ban on laughter, but a directive that the Afghan version of the Ministry for the Obliteration of Vice and the Promotion of Virtue were empowered to forcibly enter homes from which the sounds of merriment could be heard.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I've given you one already.

You have?

Does that mean he'll have to pull a wall down on himself?

 

[fattboy]

lame

 

[fattboy]

Bollocks of course, seeing as not all Muslims support sharia.

then they aint muslims are they

 

[fattboy]

russian war criminals in chechnya, can u hear the silence



http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,820261,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,,2060572,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,2763,191798,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1890481,00.html

http://www.russian-genocide-over-chechen-people.blogspot.com/

http://www.hrw.org/press/2000/01/chech0120.htm

no-one has anything to say about the appalling crimes of the russians against the chechens?

jumping on the zionist bandwagons easier tho isnt it

human rights my batty

 

[butchersapron]

Fuck me you're a right charmer aren't you, a homophobic conspiracy loon who supports the lashing and stoning to death of women and i strongly suspect there's a nasty hole of anti-semitism crawling around under your 'anti-zionism.

 

[Blagsta]

then they aint muslims are they

nice circular argument there