The UK and the mujahedeen

[Blagsta]

'bumchums'?

And no, you're wrong. The Taliban made $100 million from the drug trade in 1994 and $20 million in both 1995 and 1997. Primarily by charging 10% on all drugs it guaranteed the safety of drugs smuggled across the areas that it controlled or by hiring themselves out to safely carry the drugs across acreas that they didn't. They did later outlaw opium years later in 1999 only after benefirting directly and massively from it for some eyars and only in order to gain international recognition - which, of course, largley failed.

Do you think your 'producing' point in any way clears the Taliban of being up to the drug trade to it's eyesballs?

Indeed.

Fatboy - check the book "The Politics of Heroin" by Alfred W. McCoy. A very enlightening read.

 

[fattboy]

can i have some proof that Taliban were involved in the heroin trade please.

btw, under Taliban control, afghanistans role in the world smack trade fell from 90% to under 5%

now we have freedom and democracy in afghanistan its back up to around the 90% mark again, despite the technology the west has such as herbicides and crop sprayers that can destroy the opium plants

 

[fattboy]

This isn't entirely true. The taliban were originally funded by opium. It wasn't until July 2000 that Mullah Omar banned opium cultivation. The price then went up from $110/kilo to $500/kilo making the Taliban a nice tidy profit. The Taliban only banned cultivation in a bid for international recognition.

no they didnt, drugs like heroin are clearly prohibited in Islam, thats why opium production was outlawed by the Taliban, Taliban dont give a monkeys about being recognised by the west.

 

[fattboy]

'bumchums'?

And no, you're wrong. The Taliban made $100 million from the drug trade in 1994 and $20 million in both 1995 and 1997. Primarily by charging 10% on all the drugs smuggled across the areas that it controlled (and by guaranteeing its safety) or by hiring themselves out to safely carry the drugs across areas that they didn't. They did outlaw opium years later in 1999 only after benefiting directly and massively from it for some crucial years and only in order to gain international recognition - which, of course, largley failed.

Do you think your 'producing' point in any way clears the Taliban of being up to to it's eyesballs in the drug trade?

I like the consistent way in which fattboy now supports both US and Saudi imperialism when it's against placed against heathen dogs. With the imperialists sometimes eh?

how am i supporting the us?
if they wanna send some stingers our way fair enough, they came in very handy, but the afghan mujahadeen never asked anyone but other muslims to help in the campaign, i think we all agree the us had their own agenda and it wasnt for any love of the afghan ppl.
the afghan jihad was a defensive war against foreign imperialists and the mujahideen triumphed against the worlds greatest superpower on their own doorstep, it was one of the greatest military victories of all time and the 3rd time the mujahadeen had defeated a leading imperialist superpower, the first 2 being persia and byzantium who again on paper were far superior in terms of manpower and resources, but crumbled against the discipline and steadfastness of the mujahadeen.

again, id really like to see some proof about Taliban involvement in drugs.

btw a delegation of Taliban were invited to the white house for talks on proposed oil pipelines (that were rejected by the Taliban) shortly before 911.

 

[fattboy]

Because it was a story about an honour killing. A practice which the mujahideen agree with. Note that I didn't mention Islam, that was you. I mentioned religious fundamentalism.

QUOTE]


u gonna bring some proof for this at all?

 

[fattboy]

Saying "good on 'em" about the mujahideen is hardly a great comment to make given the vile regime that the Taliban ruled over.

what do u know about the Taliban, apart from what uve seen on fox and read in the sun?

ever heard of Yvonne Ridley?

 

[rover07]

no they didnt, drugs like heroin are clearly prohibited in Islam, thats why opium production was outlawed by the Taliban, Taliban dont give a monkeys about being recognised by the west.

Oh no it isn't. There is no mention of heroin in the Koran.

Are you saying that Afghan muslims don't know the laws of Islam?

 

[Dillinger4]

I dont think he knows about anything he is saying.

 

[fattboy]

russian war criminals in chechnya, can u hear the silence



http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,820261,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,,2060572,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,2763,191798,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1890481,00.html

http://www.russian-genocide-over-chechen-people.blogspot.com/

http://www.hrw.org/press/2000/01/chech0120.htm

 

[likesfish]

it was on militaryphotos.com but over a year back claimed they'd captured a couple of English speaking rebels who said they were journalists pulled them apart between a pair of btr80s
the Russian army does'nt really give much of a shit about its own troops let alone anybody else

 

[fattboy]

yeah i heard they did that to a female chechen sniper too, savage bastards.

 

[butchersapron]

how am i supporting the us?
if they wanna send some stingers our way fair enough, they came in very handy, but the afghan mujahadeen never asked anyone but other muslims to help in the campaign, i think we all agree the us had their own agenda and it wasnt for any love of the afghan ppl.
the afghan jihad was a defensive war against foreign imperialists and the mujahideen triumphed against the worlds greatest superpower on their own doorstep, it was one of the greatest military victories of all time and the 3rd time the mujahadeen had defeated a leading imperialist superpower, the first 2 being persia and byzantium who again on paper were far superior in terms of manpower and resources, but crumbled against the discipline and steadfastness of the mujahadeen.

again, id really like to see some proof about Taliban involvement in drugs.

btw a delegation of Taliban were invited to the white house for talks on proposed oil pipelines (that were rejected by the Taliban) shortly before 911.

How are you supporting US and Saudi imperialism by supporting and cheering on their proxy armies? Are you kidding? What do you think of people who supported and cheered on the current US invasion of Afghanistan?

And anyone whose read beyond some nutter pamphlets designed explicity to whitewash the Taliban and other similiar groups knows full well what the Taliban got up as regards the drugs trade in the mid to late 90s. It's not some massive secret. Blagsta's given you book and you can also find details of the same activity in Jason Burke's book on AQ (this is without even yet mentioning 'taliban' and 'opium' on google which brings up enough credible links to destroy your argument).

You really do need to open your eyes to the world and lose the willing brainwashing if you want to get taken seriously.

 

[butchersapron]

Oh no it isn't. There is no mention of heroin in the Koran.

Are you saying that Afghan muslims don't know the laws of Islam?

Sure, that's why they begged Saudi, Pakistan and UAE to recognise them so they could then offcially send them funds and that's why they invited the UN Drugs Control Program inspectors in to see if they'd cleaned up and so would recommend that the UN recognised the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

 

[cockneyrebel]

u gonna bring some proof for this at all?

Proof for what? That the Taliban support honour killings? Are you seriously gonna deny that women got stoned to death in the main football stadium in Kabul for having affairs?

The Taliban are women hating scum who are utterly reactionary and brought misery to the Afghan people.

As for fighting the foreign invasion as I've already pointed out it was a civil war. And as fanciful said the people of the cities knew what was coming their way once the Taliban took power. Misery.

what do u know about the Taliban, apart from what uve seen on fox and read in the sun?

ever heard of Yvonne Ridley?

Are you some kind of numb skull? I've been involved in political stuff for years. And yeah I do know about Yvonne Ridley, she's an absolute pillock.

yeah i heard they did that to a female chechen sniper too, savage bastards.

What and the Taliban didn't do stuff like this? They stoned women to death and cut blokes balls off and left them to bleed to death.

I look forward to the day when real working class forces take control in Afghanistan and string the leaders of the Taliban up from the nearest lamp post.

 

[poster342002]

I look forward to the day when real working class forces take control in Afghanistan and string the leaders of the Taliban up from the nearest lamp post.

YES!!!! Well said! For once you and I are in full agreement!

What a delightfull day that'll be! And how the UK cod-left will howl with rage at it's happening!

 

[cockneyrebel]

Where we might disagree is that I think that the main threat to the working class will always be imperialism. And the misery that US/UK imperialism deals out to the international working class surpasses anything else.

And don't be ridiculous. If pro-working class forces took power in Afghanistan every socialist in this country would be happy.

It is a problem though how soft the SWP is on the Iranian regime in the STWC.

 

[poster342002]

If pro-working class forces took power in Afghanistan every socialist in this country would be happy.

Although maybe not quite as happy as some of them were about the seizure of power by the Taliban...

 

[Brainaddict]

I look forward to the day when real working class forces take control in Afghanistan and string the leaders of the Taliban up from the nearest lamp post.

What the fuck are you talking about? There is no industrial working class and peasants and urban poor are largely incredibly conservative, religious, and - sadly - ignorant, since education has been non-functional for decades. They wouldn't be as brutal as the Taliban it's true, but it would hardly be a 'liberation' if they took control.

 

[fattboy]

How are you supporting US and Saudi imperialism by supporting and cheering on their proxy armies? Are you kidding? What do you think of people who supported and cheered on the current US invasion of Afghanistan?

And anyone whose read beyond some nutter pamphlets designed explicity to whitewash the Taliban and other similiar groups knows full well what the Taliban got up as regards the drugs trade in the mid to late 90s. It's not some massive secret. Blagsta's given you book and you can also find details of the same activity in Jason Burke's book on AQ (this is without even yet mentioning 'taliban' and 'opium' on google which brings up enough credible links to destroy your argument).

You really do need to open your eyes to the world and lose the willing brainwashing if you want to get taken seriously.

proxy army?
it was a defensive jihad, the same thats happening right now in chechnya.
if the sauds wanna fund them why should the afghans refuse it, theyd been using bolt action lee enfields from ww1 against the worlds most most sophisticated army up till then.
its nothing to do with saudi imperialism, the ummah constitutes one religion, one ppl, u aint gotta be an afghan to want to see ur brothers and sisters not get slaughtered, and as for the us, they just wanted to see the russkis get a good kicking cos they knew theyd struggle against a well armed mujahadeen in an asymetrical campaign, just like they did in vietnam.
im saying nothing about what ur claiming about the taliban because ur offering no proof and even if they did, fact remains they outlawed it when they controlled most of afghanistan and that didnt happen till a lot lot later, even then the NA still controlled some areas.

 

[butchersapron]

proxy army?
it was a defensive jihad, the same thats happening right now in chechnya.
if the sauds wanna fund them why should the afghans refuse it, theyd been using bolt action lee enfields from ww1 against the worlds most most sophisticated army up till then.
its nothing to do with saudi imperialism, the ummah constitutes one religion, one ppl, u aint gotta be an afghan to want to see ur brothers and sisters not get slaughtered, and as for the us, they just wanted to see the russkis get a good kicking cos they knew theyd struggle against a well armed mujahadeen in an asymetrical campaign, just like they did in vietnam.
im saying nothing about what ur claiming about the taliban because ur offering no proof and even if they did, fact remains they outlawed it when they controlled most of afghanistan and that didnt happen till a lot lot later, even then the NA still controlled some areas.

Yes, proxy army. There were many of them all over the world at that time.

Offering no proof? What that 'US imperialiasm' funded them? Again, are you kidding? Do i really need to? Billions of dollars. There's a massive gap in your position here - you're against US imperialism when you see it as aimed as muslims, but are happy to effectively support it when it's aimed against godless heathens? That's shameless hypocrisy.

 

[ViolentPanda]

'bumchums'?

And no, you're wrong. The Taliban made $100 million from the drug trade in 1994 and $20 million in both 1995 and 1997. Primarily by charging 10% on all the drugs smuggled across the areas that it controlled (and by guaranteeing its safety) or by hiring themselves out to safely carry the drugs across areas that they didn't. They did outlaw opium years later in 1999 only after benefiting directly and massively from it for some crucial years and only in order to gain international recognition - which, of course, largley failed.

Do you think your 'producing' point in any way clears the Taliban of being up to to it's eyesballs in the drug trade?

I like the consistent way in which fattboy now supports both US and Saudi imperialism when it's against placed against heathen dogs. With the imperialists sometimes eh?

Yep.
There's also credible evidence showing that the Taliban facilitated the building and maintenance of roads through some Afghan territories (at the behest of interested parties in Pakistan) purely to facilitate the smuggling trades to Iran and Central Asia.

 

[fattboy]

Proof for what? That the Taliban support honour killings? Are you seriously gonna deny that women got stoned to death in the main football stadium in Kabul for having affairs?

The Taliban are women hating scum who are utterly reactionary and brought misery to the Afghan people.

As for fighting the foreign invasion as I've already pointed out it was a civil war. And as fanciful said the people of the cities knew what was coming their way once the Taliban took power. Misery.



Are you some kind of numb skull? I've been involved in political stuff for years. And yeah I do know about Yvonne Ridley, she's an absolute pillock.



What and the Taliban didn't do stuff like this? They stoned women to death and cut blokes balls off and left them to bleed to death.

I look forward to the day when real working class forces take control in Afghanistan and string the leaders of the Taliban up from the nearest lamp post.

im not denying women or men get stoned to death in a sharia state, what im saying is that isnt an honour killing, uve misunderstood what an honour killing is.

the taliban arent women hating, u know how many women were getting raped and murdered by the NA before they took control?

yeah there were pro soviet factions but it was no more a civil war than the french resistance was during ww2, there was no fighting till the russians invaded.

Yvonne Ridleys a great woman, what have u got against her exactly?

 

[fattboy]

Yes, proxy army. There were many of them all over the world at that time.

Offering no proof? What that 'US imperialiasm' funded them? Again, are you kidding? Do i really need to? Billions of dollars. There's a massive gap in your position here - you're against US imperialism when you see it as aimed as muslims, but are happy to effectively support it when it's aimed against godless heathens? That's shameless hypocrisy.

no it aint,im against oppression of anyone, muslim or otherewise.
the mujahadeen were fighting to raise the banner of Islam, not the stars and stripes, why are u having difficulty seeing this.
no gi's fought with the mujahadeen, they sent some hardware and it was gladly received, end of story.

 

[fattboy]

Yep.
There's also credible evidence showing that the Taliban facilitated the building and maintenance of roads through some Afghan territories (at the behest of interested parties in Pakistan) purely to facilitate the smuggling trades to Iran and Central Asia.

any chance of a look at it?

 

[butchersapron]

im not denying women or men get stoned to death in a sharia state, what im saying is that isnt an honour killing, uve misunderstood what an honour killing is.

And you support this sort of sharia state?

 

[fattboy]

what do u think?

 

[butchersapron]

no it aint,im against oppression of anyone, muslim or otherewise.
the mujahadeen were fighting to raise the banner of Islam, not the stars and stripes, why are u having difficulty seeing this.
no gi's fought with the mujahadeen, they sent some hardware and it was gladly received, end of story.

Some hardware? As i said billions of dollars is not 'some hardware'. And why do you think they were giving them this? To further the aims of 'US imperialism', to act as a proxy army. And here you are whooping it up for them, whilst crying about them doing the exact same thing today in the exact same place (not to mention iraq). I do hope that you're about 13 or somerthing.

 

[butchersapron]

what do u think?

I think that you do. Do you?

 

[butchersapron]

Come on, out with it - tell the truth before allah.

 

[cockneyrebel]

What the fuck are you talking about? There is no industrial working class and peasants and urban poor are largely incredibly conservative, religious, and - sadly - ignorant, since education has been non-functional for decades. They wouldn't be as brutal as the Taliban it's true, but it would hardly be a 'liberation' if they took control.

Fair enough I was being simplistic. The working class in Afghanistan is very small (but then again it was in the Russian Revolution!), but as times go by hopefully Afghanistan will become more industrialised. Also the very small working class could make alliances with the peasants. Remember that in Russia much of the population was very conservative as well.

Hopefully a progressive force would drive the Taliban out and string up their leaders.

proxy army?
it was a defensive jihad,

Are you on drugs? How many times do you have to be told that it was actually a civil war.

im not denying women or men get stoned to death in a sharia state, what im saying is that isnt an honour killing, uve misunderstood what an honour killing is.

I know what honour killings are you tosser, one of the closest people in my life had a knife held up against her throat for "honour". And at the end of the day what is the difference between the Taliban stoning a woman to death for having an affair and the family killing her? Are you seriously suggesting the Taliban had a problem with honour killings?

the taliban arent women hating, u know how many women were getting raped and murdered by the NA before they took control?

So because the NA were scum that makes what the Taliban did ok? That women were banned from education? That they were forced to wear burkhas? That they stoned women to death just for shagging someone outside marriage? Of course they're women haters.

yeah there were pro soviet factions but it was no more a civil war than the french resistance was during ww2, there was no fighting till the russians invaded.

Yvonne Ridleys a great woman, what have u got against her exactly?

Do you know anything at all about what you talk about? The USSR were supporting the Afghan government you plonker. The PDPA overthrew the monarchy and had mass backing.

As for Ridley she spouts utter rubbish, she was an embarassment even to RESPECT.