The U.K. Gig Economy

Discussion in 'education & employment' started by Marty1, Oct 23, 2019.

  1. hash tag

    hash tag member

  2. pug

    pug Well-Known Member

    Multidrop drivers are covered by the current driving hours legislation it's just not enforced and the responsibility to comply is down to the 'self employed' driver, the managment of these delivery companies are well aware that the delivery rounds will require the driving time to be exceeded, the break times non existant and the speed limit to be broken in order to complete the allocated number of drops.

    Driving a van

    If a driver has 150 drops(separate delivery destinations) thats about 14 an hour or one every 4-5 minutes, ie 4-5 minutes to ger out of the van, get in the back and find the parcel, find the front door and ring or knock, wait for the person to answer or not answer the door, (if not in then write out a card and/or tap up a neighbour), get back to the van, get in it and drive to the next drop and park before repeating the same. This is why drivers often dont use the seatbelt and why you might find that theyre filling out the card even though they've only just rung the doorbell, you might think or say to them 'can't you wait a minute?' but they only have four and a half minutes to make your delivery and drive to the next one.
     
    Celyn, 8ball, salem and 10 others like this.
  3. hash tag

    hash tag member

    Thats well informed pug cheers. HGV's have taco's whereas a van driver doesn't. For the self employed drivers, there is no way of enforcing those limits, thus putting
    themselves and others at risk. I am not sure employers will be that hot on enforcing the hour limits.
    I was reading during the night that Amazon have been taking a hit because they are working hard on Prime - 24 hour delivery. This can only make, matters worse :(
     
    crossthebreeze and Marty1 like this.
  4. belboid

    belboid TUC Off Your Knees

  5. hash tag

    hash tag member

    Your timings, of course, pug are for easy, straight forward house drops. There are flats near me when finding the block entrance...5 minutes to be let in, then another 10 minutes to find the flat after that. I visit these places on emergencies :facepalm:
    Often fancied bit of couring work, driving round in a van with a few drops, not. I don't envy you guys, not one bit.
     
    Marty1 likes this.
  6. Marty1

    Marty1 Well-Known Member

  7. pug

    pug Well-Known Member

    The whole point of them being self-employed means that they don't have employers, they're contractors, I don't want to sound hair splitty because I know what you mean but its an important point to distinguish,- that the responsibility has been shifted onto the worker. And thats not the only thing that's shifted, if there's a turndown in business the driver still has to deliver the packages alotted to the round which could mean doing 20 drops, the fuel cost is not much less and effectively the driver is paying to work, this is shifting the business risk onto the worker.
    This arrangement is really a situation where a whole lot of loopholes are being allowed to be exploited and the costs bourne by by society in terms of lower road safety, loss of tax revenue and damage to peoples lives and health as depicted in the film.
    If a self-employed contractor were to abide by the letter of the law in respect of driver hours, rest breaks, speed limit, seatbelts and driving whilst unfit due to illness theyd soon be charged for the deliveries they didn't make and then the contract terminated leaving them indebted to the insurance and the hire/purchase charges for the vehicle so once theyre in theyre almost indentured to continue until the debt for the vehicle is paid off.
     
  8. Marty1

    Marty1 Well-Known Member

    Yup, there’s absolutely zero protection for drivers, it’s exactly as Ken Loach remarked on QT, it’s a master - servant relationship.
     
    campanula and pug like this.
  9. pug

    pug Well-Known Member

    No, timings just an average, the easy drops (residential drops are not the easy ones really for various reasons) could be bashed out at 2-3 minutes each and that provides the time to piss about at the block of flats, if it's a bad day then the block of flats could be skipped claiming that the person wasn't in. I don't do this work anymore thank fuck but I cant imagine taking 10 minutes to find a flat once i'm in the door.
     
  10. pug

    pug Well-Known Member

    The thing is the shift of the business's business risks onto the worker makes the companies more profitable for shareholders it's more or less direct effect of freemarket capitalism on the worker and that's where the individualistic notion that people buying stuff that's delivered by these workers are responsible for their conditions don't hold much water, it's the owners/shareholders of the companies that are responsible.
     
  11. Marty1

    Marty1 Well-Known Member

    Amazon are now starting to muscle in on the profits of the logistics companies they use to deliver by leasing out their own Amazon liveried vans.

    The various logistics companies make a handsome return by the lease of their vans to their drivers, company I used to ‘sub contract’ with charged £188 per week, (£9776 per annum), deducted from wages, so Amazon being the insatiable greedy mercenaries that they are see an opportunity.

    I use/used my own van as it’s cheaper than renting a van long term but it may be possible that one day Amazon only allow logistics companies to lease vans off Amazon.
     
    pug likes this.
  12. hash tag

    hash tag member

    Maybe you stick an Amazon logo on your own van.
    for a fee of course.
     
    Marty1 likes this.
  13. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    I know someone who delivers for one of the supermarkets, I don't think it's as bad as the courier companies but when they went to make a suggestion to one of the managers about how something could be better, the manager just said "if you don't like it you can fuck off!"
     
  14. Duncan2

    Duncan2 Well-Known Member

    The point was made on QT that van drivers are the tip of the ice-berg.I doubt whether reliable figures exist for the numbers of Agency-Workers in sectors such as distribution-but its the norm-they are doing the bulk of the work that is done at very many sites.The majority of these could be described as being on zero-hours contracts-all of these cannot raise objections without being told "if you don't like it you can fuck-off"-all could be described as being in a "master-servant" relationship with their employer.None of this is news except to the middle-classes.
     
    S☼I, campanula and pug like this.
  15. pug

    pug Well-Known Member

    That kind of thing works more like, if you dont have our vinyls then you cant deliver our parcels, the vinyls cost £300 with fitting on top and once the van has the 'livery' it mustn't be used for any similar type of work for anyone else.
     
    muscovyduck, Duncan2 and maomao like this.
  16. hash tag

    hash tag member

    neonwilderness and colacubes like this.
  17. colacubes

    colacubes Well-Known Member

    I saw it earlier today. It’s a great film but one of the most depressing I’ve seen for a while. I liked that it also showed up zero hours contracts in care and how shit they are for both the carers and the “clients”. I see a lot of care agency staff round my way during the day and I often think about how they aren’t paid for travel time and the like.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  18. hash tag

    hash tag member

    I come into contact with a few carers and many people they try and care for, or not maybe. I haven't seen film yet, but wonder if it's a bit OTT to be believable. Might see it tomorrow.
     
  19. colacubes

    colacubes Well-Known Member

    I think it’s not in the slightest from the care perspective. Possibly a tiny bit on the delivery front, but not so much to make it unbelievable. And tbf the case it’s based on was totally unbelievable were it not actually real. Extreme but not unbelievable. I know people who’ve worked in both worlds.
     
    Marty1 and hash tag like this.
  20. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    Saw this on Saturday at the newly accessible Ritzy (yay!). Very good I thought - rang true and horribly depressing.

    Smuggled the kids in (12 and 14 - film has a 15 certificate) and the 12 year old found it quite upsetting. I suspect it got a 15 because of the swearing; in fact the subject matter is the thing that’s difficult to take, and quite right too.
     
    hash tag and Marty1 like this.
  21. hash tag

    hash tag member

    Great film, suitably gritty, perhaps a little OTT. Seb and Liza deserve mentions.
    I suspect, to a point it's preaching to the converted. As for others, I hope it hits a nerve with them but have my doubts.
    saying this, I've seen things close up from the carers viewpoint and felt the film glossed over some of their issues.
     
    Marty1 likes this.
  22. hash tag

    hash tag member

    I am working with 3 others today, 2 are "leftie", the other is a film buff. None will go to see sorry. I'm trying to encourage my film buff daughter to go see it.
     
    Marty1 likes this.
  23. hash tag

    hash tag member

    Tonight
     
    Celyn likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice