The true cost of cheap chicken

[shagnasty]

when you go into a shop and see a product it's nice packaging you just don't know the truth behind how it is made or farmed so we shouldn't be to hard on ourselfs all we can do is our best to buy ethical products.one piece of cynical selling i have noticed is asda's cheap label as been turned from red to green packaging now is that to convince buyers of asda' green credentials

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

. Realistically nothing is gonna ge... How kind were the Soviets to their chickens?

 

[cockneyrebel]

How kind were the Soviets to their chickens?

Well inititally after the revolution there was mass starvation so it probably wasn't high on the agenda. After that you had stalinism which had no problem starving people to death, so hardly gonna put chickens on the agenda......and your point is what exactly?

 

[scifisam]

I guess it would help if ingredients in processed food listed whether they were free range or not (be it chicken or eggs). That would be a start.

Good point. With veggie food, you can tell if the eggs used were from free-range chickens, because veggie food won't have the Vegeterian Society stamp if it uses battery-farmed eggs. I wouldn't know if there were anything similar for meat products, but it would be a good idea.

So sorry I buy pre-cooked/ packaged foods sometimes but I am human!!

Free-range human?

 

[tarannau]

Trouble is, it's not just the eggs I'm worried about. Dairy production is horrendous as well - bloated milking machines that live a prolonged painful life gushing out huge amounts of fluid, regu,arly watching their calves be taken off them and slaughtered (or made into veal)

Now, whilst I'm fairly fussy with my chicken and eggs bar the odd aberration, I've not quite got to the stage where I'm turning down cups of tea or cheese sarnies because I'm not sure of their source. The more you think, the more unpleasant the dairy trade is.

 

[fredfelt]

Good point. With veggie food, you can tell if the eggs used were from free-range chickens, because veggie food won't have the Vegeterian Society stamp if it uses battery-farmed eggs. I wouldn't know if there were anything similar for meat products, but it would be a good idea.



Free-range human?

You need to be careful that it is actually a stamp from the Vegeterian society though. Many products label with a 'v' and use battery eggs (ie all tesco egg sandwiches). If it does not say free range eggs they are battery. However I have noticed that the co-op brand label if they use battery eggs.

Good news is the co-op and just announced that they'll stop selling battery eggs along with M&S who have only sold free range eggs and as ingredients for years.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

In terms of the independents politics there is the usual middle class liberal patronising rubbish blaming consumers for not buying organic forgetting that most people don't have their cosy life styles.

On the other hand it is horrific how animals are treated in factory farms. 10s if not 100s of billions of them every year.

Is this a Dave Spart hommage?

 

[fredfelt]

How kind were the Soviets to their chickens?

At least a capatilst chicken can aspire for a better life.

 

[TAE]

It's not up to me to force my diet choices on others, and I'm sure that people are more than capable of making their own minds up what they want to eat in cafes.

Would you include McDonald's in such a list? No, you discourage people from eating there.

 

[editor]

Would you include McDonald's in such a list? No, you discourage people from eating there.

I don't think you understand how this 'reviews' malarkey works, do you?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Well inititally after the revolution there was mass starvation so it probably wasn't high on the agenda. After that you had stalinism which had no problem starving people to death, so hardly gonna put chickens on the agenda......and your point is what exactly?

My point is that abuse of chickens can exist outside capitalism.

 

[Mallard]

. Of course people who wear Nike aren't responsible. Indeed almost every clothing company uses sweat shops so unless people sit at home knitting their clothing out of hemp then what is the alternative. More importantly sweat shop workers don't want a consumer boycott, they want pressure on the companies to improve workers rights by linking up with trade union campaigns.

Ethical clothing and organic meat is all very well if you're on a lovely middle class income, but most people can't afford it. And it's a totally utopian way of thinking you can change things anyway.

Only middle class people boycott companies that are demonstrably reprehensible. The bourgeois bastards who avoid Nike and Colombian banana companies are the same fascists who believe that individuals can affect any change in society or that they are responsible for their own consumer choices. I prefer to canonise the 'working clarse' and anyone who is real enough to wear Nike, eat KFC and condemn the polytechnic types who believe that their actions can affect change.

 

[editor]

Only middle class people boycott companies that are demonstrably reprehensible.

What about the boycott of The Sun by Liverpool fans?

 

[London_Calling]

To be fair, LC, it's a bit of a silly question. Why would chickens not feel pain? They are animals with a central nervous system.

Here's one link, though. I shouldn't think it'd be too hard to find more.

It might be silly to you, but perhaps you know more about it than do I. From your link:

The results that may most perturb animal welfare groups are those that suggest chickens can feel pain. Tests found that those known to be experiencing some form of discomfort or lameness chose food laced with morphine when given the choice. By contrast, chickens who were fully fit chose feed that was not spiked with an analgesic.

. . suggests chickens can feel pain - and that's if you interpret avoidance as a reaction to pain, rather than one of several other possibilities. As I say above, I really don't know and am open to any available science.

 

[fogbat]

What about the boycott of The Sun by Liverpool fans?

That wasn't really a general response to the Sun's reprehensibleness..ibility... It was a typical Scouse community reaction to a perceived (though in this case real) slight.

 

[editor]

That wasn't really a general response to the Sun's reprehensibleness..ibility... It was a typical Scouse community reaction to a perceived (though in this case real) slight.

Consumers decide to doycott something because they don't like what's in the product (in this case the editorial stance).

Same difference, no?

http://koptalkinsider.wordpress.com/2006/11/11/remember-why-we-boycott-the-sun-never-forget-the-96/

 

[smokedout]

so you never eat in the places you reccommend on your reviews page

sorry to be pedantic, it just seems absurd that you would say

If you're eating cheap chicken from takeaways or whatever, then you're directly contributing to the dreadful poultry industry, no matter how you spin it.

but then you say of companies which sell these products

covered market serves up Pie & Mash for under two quid with tea a mere 30p. Definitely not the place for trendy new media types to discuss their latest start-up over a cappucinno, but great value nonetheless.

Cheap and tasty, with no complaints from us.

etc, etc, which sounds very much like an endorsement to me

cant you see a double standard

 

[editor]

so you never eat in the places you reccommend on your reviews page

Err, hello? Do I have to eat every single thing listed on the menu in every cafe, before I can recommended them?

Or perhaps it's just a personal and hopefully guide on a non-profit site made up from personal experiences and the opinions of partners, friends and colleagues? The clue is in the word "us" that you've just quoted.

Jeez. What a truly desperate ad hominem argument you're constructing here. Really petty, pedantic and pointless.

 

[TAE]

I don't think you understand how this 'reviews' malarkey works, do you?

I'm certainly not following your logic regarding the reviews, though it's really not a big issue to me.

 

[editor]

I'm certainly not following your logic regarding the reviews, though it's really not a big issue to me.

A review simply offers a personal opinion which people are entirely at liberty to agree with, disagree with or ignore completely. No one's being told what to eat, just like no one's being forced to read the review.

So what is your point? Have you actually got one? And what's McDonalds got to do with it?

 

[_angel_]

You need to be careful that it is actually a stamp from the Vegeterian society though. Many products label with a 'v' and use battery eggs (ie all tesco egg sandwiches). If it does not say free range eggs they are battery. However I have noticed that the co-op brand label if they use battery eggs.

Good news is the co-op and just announced that they'll stop selling battery eggs along with M&S who have only sold free range eggs and as ingredients for years.

I wish Tesco or Sainsbury (or better still Morrisons) would follow suit... but I think it will be a long time before that happens.

 

[Cobbles]

Realistically nothing is gonna get better for animals under capitalism.

Good heavens, does that mean that in the former eastern Bloc, animals were treated as venerable comrades?

 

[dessiato]

On my local market the rabbits, chickens and other poultry are still alive. They are killed to order, or you can take them home to kill them yourself. This, is very off-putting, but at least it's fresh! (and if no-one buys it it can go home and be kept until the next week) It was somewhat disturbing to see the turkeys pecking away at Xmas.

I, as a student, worked in a poultry processing factory, it wasn't the things that happen before death that put me off, it was the things after that that bother me. We played football with them, threw them about like basketballs, when we didn't want to work stuffed them into machines to jam the works. All of this would still go to be packaged for the supermarkets.

 

[Random]

Good heavens, does that mean that in the former eastern Bloc, animals were treated as venerable comrades?

deformed, debeaked, chickens' state

 

[Mallard]

What about the boycott of The Sun by Liverpool fans?

I was being sarcastic. Sorry!

 

[cockneyrebel]

Good heavens, does that mean that in the former eastern Bloc, animals were treated as venerable comrades?

Just because animal welfare won't get better under capitalism doens't mean it will automatically get better under other social systems. Where did I say otherwise?

I prefer to canonise the 'working clarse' and anyone who is real enough to wear Nike, eat KFC and condemn the polytechnic types who believe that their actions can affect change.

Yeah because consumer boycotts have achieved so much. And obviously anyone wearing Nike or eatting in Nandos or McDonalds is scum.

 

[fredfelt]

Just because animal welfare won't get better under capitalism doens't mean it will automatically get better under other social systems. Where did I say otherwise?



Yeah because consumer boycotts have achieved so much. And obviously anyone wearing Nike or eatting in Nandos or McDonalds is scum.

Maybe to go off subject but capitalism allows for animal welfare to improve by regulation and pricing. In cases where a price cannot reflect the real cost (the the price of the misery of a factory farmed chicken) regulation needs to correct this.

Think tone is scarastic here, but there are many examples where consumer boycotts (perhaps more importantly consumer knowledge combined with action) has achieved various degrees of sucess. Even greater sucess if comsumer pressure leads to modified regulations.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Under capitalism animal welfare has, in general, got worse and worse as the drive for more profits requires more and more factory farming.

In term of consumer boycotts I can't think of anything they've achieved on any significant scale unless they are backed up by poltical/working class action (such as the apartheid boycott).

 

[tarannau]

There doesn't need to be an old fashioned consumer boycott to change things. Changing customer perceptions can rapidly shape the demand for a product - look at the rapid rise and even faster fall of a product like Sunny Delight.

 

[TAE]

A review simply offers a personal opinion which people are entirely at liberty to agree with, disagree with or ignore completely. No one's being told what to eat, just like no one's being forced to read the review.

So what is your point? Have you actually got one? And what's McDonalds got to do with it?

Quite simple: You point out that McDonalds may not be the best place to eat, fair enough, so you could equally point out which cafes sell free range type food - if you feel strongly about such things. It's really not a big deal though, I actually like your reviews.