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The true cost of cheap chicken

cockneyrebel said:
mk12 I really wouldn't bother trying to take on the myths of liberals who say consumer power is the answer. Of course people who wear Nike aren't responsible.

Big difference between 'contributing' and 'responsible' though.

Completely agree with you that consumer power is weak and misapplied, though.
 
Crispy said:
Big difference between 'contributing' and 'responsible' though.

Completely agree with you that consumer power is weak and misapplied, though.
Weak? Sure.
But completely powerless to make even small changes for the better? I'm not so sure.
 
TAE said:
If they avoid pain then I think it is fair to assume that they can feel pain.
I didn't read that from the linked article.

I don't mean to be facetious but we humans all avoid things for many reasons other than what we call ‘pain’.

I’m just asking the questions, is all; are chickens sentient as we understand it, and do they feel pain as we understand it – for all I know of the issue they could be as aware as are chimps, or bananas.
 
London_Calling said:
I didn't read that from the linked article.

I don't mean to be facetious but we humans all avoid things for many reasons other than what we call ‘pain’.

I’m just asking the questions, is all; are chickens sentient as we understand it, and do they feel pain as we understand it – for all I know of the issue they could be as aware as are chimps, or bananas.
Does anyone apart from me feel pain? For all I know they don't. In fact, are they conscious at all?
 
I grew up about a mile from a chicken factory and they used to drive the birds past every week and the road would be full of shit. At an early age i decided it wasn't good to eat an animal that lived in shit.

The intensively-raised stuff just ain;t chicken. it's just a pile of hormones and antibiotics that had a beating heart for a few weeks. I'd ban that shit completely. It gives you manboobs.
 
corporate whore said:
My first thought is - 855 million chickens bred for meat in the UK each year! :eek:

That's - what? - about 13 whole chickens for every man, woman and child in the country.

8 pieces of chicken and fries for £2.99 on every street in the country is a big part of the problem.

Like has been said on the political predictions thread (albeit for different reasons), our dietary habits need to change.

someone is eating my share of chicken then. we have an organic free range chicken roast dinner once a month costing around £6 for a bird. the rest of the time we eat organic beef, wild venison and game, or beans n vegetables. we have fish maybe once or twice a month.
 
Poot said:
May I just add - and it is a SLIGHT derail, that if you care for the welfare of chickens you should never ever buy barn eggs?

Chickens are not the brightest animals and will suffocate each other to get to food and - in particular - sunlight. Barn chickens are kept in totally overcrowded conditions and are not caged, as battery hens are. They suffocate each other all the time. And they wilfully kill each other when they're distressed.

I'm not advocating buying battery eggs, but barn eggs are even worse- don't be fooled!

Yup, has to be organic or nothing for me with eggs.
 
pinkmonkey said:
It's very processed, so I don't know - it's a bit scientific, grown in big vats.

At least it's low fat. I actually don't like chicken breasts much, they can be as dry and stringy aand tasteless as....um ....a ball of string, so there's no point now I've discovered Quorn.

Because quorn pieces are similar in shape and size to sugar cubes we debated making a 'Quorn Turkey' at Christmas time, building block style. :D

If you are buying Quorn you should be aware that only the products with the Vegeterian Society logo use free range eggs.When Quorn first came onto the market they were using battery eggs in all thier products.When the BBC reported this the company worked with the Veg. Society to change this practice BUT not on all thier products.
 
cockneyrebel said:
1. Ethical clothing and organic meat is all very well if you're on a lovely middle class income, but most people can't afford it. And it's a totally utopian way of thinking you can change things anyway.

2. But my point was that all that aside it's still horrific how animals are treated in factory farms. Wouldn't you agree?

1. I'm by no means on a lovely middle income but i don't find it too difficult to generally avoid directly contributing whether that's through buying ethical or second hand. And I avoid the meat thing by simply not eating meat. Easy. Of course the problem is that most people care more about their chicken sandwich than animal cruelty.

2. Horrific. You still eating chicken?
 
bluestreak said:
1. I'm by no means on a lovely middle income but i don't find it too difficult to generally avoid directly contributing whether that's through buying ethical or second hand. And I avoid the meat thing by simply not eating meat. Easy. Of course the problem is that most people care more about their chicken sandwich than animal cruelty.

2. Horrific. You still eating chicken?

I'm on benefits and not eaten meat for 17 odd years. It's not a problem, neithers buying free range eggs. (But trying to find processed foods that definitely used free range egg: another story. I think only M and S guarantee their foods use free range eggs)
 
I had no problem surviving as a veggie when I was on the dole. In fact, I ate pretty damn well for very little money.
 
_angel_ said:
I'm on benefits and not eaten meat for 17 odd years. It's not a problem, neithers buying free range eggs. (But trying to find processed foods that definitely used free range egg: another story. I think only M and S guarantee their foods use free range eggs)

Yeah, I have real trouble with processed food and egg to the extent that I basically don't bother with processed food and quorn and shite like that at all. My diet is basically fresh veg and pasta now and i feel so much healthier than when i used to eat processed shite and the rubbish i was brought up on.
 
bluestreak said:
Yeah, I have real trouble with processed food and egg to the extent that I basically don't bother with processed food and quorn and shite like that at all. My diet is basically fresh veg and pasta now and i feel so much healthier than when i used to eat processed shite and the rubbish i was brought up on.

Is quorn bad? They put egg in pasta too don't they?

Being a proper vegetarian is a minefield. Avoiding meat is the easy part..!
 
sit at home knitting their clothing out of hemp

And why isn't the left urging people to do this :mad: But yeah it is pretty shocking. I asked BUAV if I could join and they said I had to be a vegetarian to join. Oh well! I got a free keyring.
 
So you don't think people stopping eating the meat of animals treated badly will have any difference at all then, yes?

So what's your practical solution for trying to improve the conditions for factory chickens?

On a wider level, no. I don't think that animal welfare will get any better under capitalism. Not surprising given the barbaric conditions that most of the planet live under.

Factory farming has got worse and worse, and so has experiments on animals. Consumer pressure is a dead end. And when it comes to stuff like clothing and other goods it's actually counter productive in many cases and not what the workers in sweat shops want.

Of course a vegetarian diet can be cheap (Quorn if fucking expensive though). But not everyone is gonna become vegetarian and clearly free range meat is a lot dearer and many people just can't afford it.

As for whether animals suffer pain, I don't think there is any doubt of that whatsoever either in wider society or in science.

I asked BUAV if I could join and they said I had to be a vegetarian to join. Oh well! I got a free keyring.

What's BUAV?

Horrific. You still eating chicken?

As it goes I'm a vegetarian but don't feel the need to make any deal out of it.
 
FridgeMagnet said:
Does anyone apart from me feel pain? For all I know they don't. In fact, are they conscious at all?
Oh dear, a pompous prat moment. Do you well up watching Chicken Run?


Fwiw, . . . if you can avoid attacking the poster for a moment, please post links to any relevant science.
 
If all our food was ethically produced (at greater expense) would people on benefits and low incomes be able to afford their weekly shop?
 
When I was a kid, there were no free-range eggs or organic meats available at all, and they're quite widely-available now. Free-range organic eggs don't even cost that much more than battery eggs either - at least, not to the degree that they used to. So some thngs have changed, presumably because of consumer wants.

Things might start to change n a big way if the Sun starts printing such articles. You never know, they might do one day - it gives plenty of opportunities for breast gags :D

London_Calling said:
Oh dear, a pompous prat moment. Do you well up watching Chicken Run?


Fwiw, . . . if you can avoid attacking the poster for a moment, please post links to any relevant science.

To be fair, LC, it's a bit of a silly question. Why would chickens not feel pain? They are animals with a central nervous system.

Here's one link, though. I shouldn't think it'd be too hard to find more.
 
editor said:
If you're eating cheap chicken from takeaways or whatever, then you're directly contributing to the dreadful poultry industry, no matter how you spin it.

so why do you run a website that has a page advertising many places that sell exactly that kind of food

or do you think the phoenix uses free range organic?
 
scifisam said:
When I was a kid, there were no free-range eggs or organic meats available at all, and they're quite widely-available now. Free-range organic eggs don't even cost that much more than battery eggs either - at least, not to the degree that they used to. So some thngs have changed, presumably because of consumer wants.

Things might start to change n a big way if the Sun starts printing such articles. You never know, they might do one day - it gives plenty of opportunities for breast gags :D



To be fair, LC, it's a bit of a silly question. Why would chickens not feel pain? They are animals with a central nervous system.

Here's one link, though. I shouldn't think it'd be too hard to find more.

I guess it would help if ingredients in processed food listed whether they were free range or not (be it chicken or eggs). That would be a start.


So sorry I buy pre-cooked/ packaged foods sometimes but I am human!!
 
smokedout said:
so why do you run a website that has a page advertising many places that sell exactly that kind of food
That's quite the most desperate post I've seen for some time. Well done!

It's not up to me to force my diet choices on others, and I'm sure that people are more than capable of making their own minds up what they want to eat in cafes.
 
smokedout said:
so why do you run a website that has a page advertising many places that sell exactly that kind of food

or do you think the phoenix uses free range organic?
is that the page that says
we don't like!McDonalds Brixton Rd SW9
Don't go there! Why feed the faceless corporate US giant when there's so many better local cafes and restaurants? Follow the trail of discarded, wasteful packaging if you must eat this shit - but first check out

Seems positive to me. :)
 
Why? Because it's too profitable?

That and also the fact that capitalist production methods will always strive for the most efficient way of producing something, because of the need for profit maximisation. The only time that this changes is when the workers movement forces the capitalists to do otherwise i.e. stuff like the welfare state etc

But even then capitalists will provide stuff like education because it provides a more productive labour force.

This comes back to whether the working class shapes what capitalists do or if it's the other way round. Personally I think it's a two way relationship and when the organised working class is weak capitalists will drive forward as many attacks as possible. They also do this if they are forced to because of a downward pressure on profits. At these times, if there is a strong organised working class and a strong left force then they are forced into barbaric methods such as dictatorships and fascism.

Anyway this is going off on a massive tangent!!

But as it's hard enough to organise to protect the working classes conditions and most people live in barbarism then I don't think animals have got much of a chance under capitalism.
 
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