The transcendent unity of all religions

[cesare]

Yes in many ways they are the same.

But look how differently they treat animals, women and homosexuals.

Go on, where do the major Abrahamistic ones differ there?

 

[max_freakout]

Yes in many ways they are the same.

But look how differently they treat animals, women and homosexuals.

you are confusing religions, with religious people (ie you use the word 'they' to refer to both)

 

[max_freakout]

imo - all religions are the same because they all tell you to be nice. How they explain it to you is cultural.

yes exactly, in most cases, a person's choice of religion is purely a result of the cultural environment they grew up in


i know Jesus preached love and kindness (love thy neighbour etc) did Muhammed preach something similar to this?

 

[max_freakout]

yes but there's a lot more sufis than gnostics arent there

says a borderling gnostic

you reckon? what makes you think this?


i dont think it matters how many of each there are, a far more important point, is that in both cases, esoteric people are tiny in number compared to bog-standard exoteric people


ie Sufis make up only a miniscule proportion of Muslims, and gnostics make up only a miniscule proportion of Christians

 

[bluestreak]

two major and famous works cover what max calls the transcendent unity of religions:

Fraser's The Golden Bough; and Graves' The Greek Myths.

Both offer fascinating research into religion, and show how religion evolved amongst early human societies, how religions merged, adopted aspects of other religions, and indeed evolved. They only seem to have stopped evolving in modern times, presumable because of codification, power structures etc etc. Possibly because you can't watch evolution in process.

Anyway, I recommend both those books to anyone with a passing interest in religion.

It's interesting seeing a direct linear theme from the pre-Greek Ur-religions to modern Christianity via the various strands of greco-roman, eurasian pagan, norse etc etc. The king who is born and died again, the role of the tree in the granting of knowledge and life and death etc etc.

 

[d.a.s.h]

imo - all religions are the same because they all tell you to be nice. How they explain it to you is cultural.

The Norse religion didn't. It told you to go and batter as many people as you could, and if you were really good at it, you went to Valhalla, where you could carry on fighting every day for eternity.

 

[cesare]

you reckon? what makes you think this?


i dont think it matters how many of each there are, a far more important point, is that in both cases, esoteric people are tiny in number compared to bog-standard exoteric people


ie Sufis make up only a miniscule proportion of Muslims, and gnostics make up only a miniscule proportion of Christians

Was there any point at all in the links and information that I gave you about Gnosticism, if you persist in referring to them as an esoteric branch of Christianity?

 

[xes]

Yes in many ways they are the same.

But look how differently they treat animals, women and homosexuals.

that's because they've twisted the texts over time,to fit in with their prejudices.
If religion went right back,they'd find that they don't need a church,or any fear based preaching (do this or go to hell) All you need is love, (babadadada) kindness,understanding and forgivness. The phrase "open your heart" comes about cos they say that the devine power,the creator lives in everyones heart. Look within,sort of.

 

[bluestreak]

Mithras was born of a virgin on the 25th of December, hows that for a coincidence Max

And in Nordic mythology Odin spent nine days tied to yggdrasil in order to achieve enlightenment... more trees, more enlightenment...

read those books max.

 

[Belushi]

The Norse religion didn't. It told you to go and batter as many people as you could, and if you were really good at it, you went to Valhalla, where you could carry on fighting every day for eternity.

Innit, and the Aztec religion told its followers to keep regularly sacrificing folk or the Gods would starve and wouldnt be able to protect the human race.

 

[bluestreak]

Was there any point at all in the links and information that I gave you about Gnosticism, if you persist in referring to them as an esoteric branch of Christianity?

It's amazing how he continues to know best without actually knowing anything about the stuff he knows best.

 

[max_freakout]

two major and famous works cover what max calls the transcendent unity of religions:

Fraser's The Golden Bough; and Graves' The Greek Myths.

Both offer fascinating research into religion, and show how religion evolved amongst early human societies, how religions merged, adopted aspects of other religions, and indeed evolved. They only seem to have stopped evolving in modern times, presumable because of codification, power structures etc etc. Possibly because you can't watch evolution in process.

Anyway, I recommend both those books to anyone with a passing interest in religion.

It's interesting seeing a direct linear theme from the pre-Greek Ur-religions to modern Christianity via the various strands of greco-roman, eurasian pagan, norse etc etc. The king who is born and died again, the role of the tree in the granting of knowledge and life and death etc etc.

also anything by Joseph Campbell but especially "the hero with a thousand faces" covers this topic

 

[cesare]

It's amazing how he continues to know best without actually knowing anything about the stuff he knows best.

He'd never mentioned Gnosticism until I brought it up

 

[xes]

what about Gnomestisism ?

 

[weltweit]

Go on, where do the major Abrahamistic ones differ there?

I am not well read on religons, I assume an Abrahamistic religion is one that believes in the story of Abraham.

I would not limit myself to that. I think all spiritual movements are attempts to coagulate people around an idea of spirituality, a god, a belief .. rather than a naturalistic or perhaps Darwinian world view.

In India I understand Cows are sacred, then there is Halal and kosher both religious ways of treating animals.

As to women, afaict only the Anglicans have ordained women as priests, (Catholics have not), and practicing homosexuals as priests and one bishop.

Muslims practice segregation with men and women not even permitted to worship together far less be ordained.

etc

 

[Dillinger4]

.

 

[bluestreak]

Note that there is often a difference between the teaching of a religion as an organisation, and the rules of the religion as laid out in their guidebook.

 

[danny la rouge]

Muslims practice segregation with men and women not even permitted to worship together far less be ordained.

Not always the case. In many Mosques women are allowed to pray with the men, but aren't actually encouraged to do so. (Men are required to pray at the 5 prayer times, women only may if they wish).

 

[pinkmonkey]

two major and famous works cover what max calls the transcendent unity of religions:

Fraser's The Golden Bough; and Graves' The Greek Myths.

Both offer fascinating research into religion, and show how religion evolved amongst early human societies, how religions merged, adopted aspects of other religions, and indeed evolved. They only seem to have stopped evolving in modern times, presumable because of codification, power structures etc etc. Possibly because you can't watch evolution in process.

Anyway, I recommend both those books to anyone with a passing interest in religion.

It's interesting seeing a direct linear theme from the pre-Greek Ur-religions to modern Christianity via the various strands of greco-roman, eurasian pagan, norse etc etc. The king who is born and died again, the role of the tree in the granting of knowledge and life and death etc etc.

You forgot about The Perennial Philosophy

http://www.amazon.com/Perennial-Philosophy-Aldous-Huxley/dp/0060901918

 

[weltweit]

Not always the case. In many Mosques women are allowed to pray with the men, but aren't actually encouraged to do so. (Men are required to pray at the 5 prayer times, women only may if they wish).

oh, ok.

But is it not the case, with the notable exception of Anglicanism very recently, that organised religion is a thing that men partake in and women are excluded from. Whats more in the main heterosexual men.

So the way religions treat women, in the main, they exclude them from religious office and in some cases segregate their worship.

And in some cases, such as Afghanistan under the Taliban, they ban women from education.

 

[max_freakout]

You forgot about The Perennial Philosophy

http://www.amazon.com/Perennial-Philosophy-Aldous-Huxley/dp/0060901918

im reading a fantastic book at the moment (which i picked up for £2 in a second hand shop ) called "The Return of the Perennial Philosophy" by John Holman

which is a bit like a sequel of Huxley's book

the details of all the different schools of esoteric thought get a bit anal imo but you can get the general idea...

 

[bluestreak]

You forgot about The Perennial Philosophy

http://www.amazon.com/Perennial-Philosophy-Aldous-Huxley/dp/0060901918

I've not read that, thanks for teh recommendation.

 

[max_freakout]

In India I understand Cows are sacred,

it is originally, the blue mushrooms that grow from their poo that is the source of the Hindu idea that cows are sacred

that is why Shiva has blue skin, and is often pictured touching a cow in Hindu art

 

[max_freakout]

Note that there is often a difference between the teaching of a religion as an organisation, and the rules of the religion as laid out in their guidebook.

when you say guidebook do you mean their scripture? ie bible, koran etc.

imo the only relevant guidebook to any religion, is their sacred scripture

 

[cesare]

it is originally, the blue mushrooms that grow from their poo that is the source of the Hindu idea that cows are sacred

that is why Shiva has blue skin, and is often pictured touching a cow in Hindu art

Are you sure that's Shiva rather than Krishna?

 

[cesare]

Various images of blue skinned Krishna and cow:

No expert here, but I think you might have got em confused max.

 

[max_freakout]

i always get these confused:

Shiva, Kali, Vishnu, Krishna

i dont know which is which, except that Kali is a terrifying bad trip, the devouring mother Goddess


either way, the blue skin, and the cow, is an esoteric reference to magic mushrooms

 

[Y_I_Otter]

You forgot about The Perennial Philosophy

http://www.amazon.com/Perennial-Philosophy-Aldous-Huxley/dp/0060901918

Another one along these lines that's worthwhile is Tom Harpur's The Pagan Christ.

 

[max_freakout]

this is a beautiful picture of Kali standing on top of Shiva:

the heads hanging around Kali's neck represent the fragmentation effect of mushrooms, the personality splits into multiple 'selves'

 

[Y_I_Otter]

No expert here, but I think you might have got em confused max.

No expert either, but Krishna is considered one of the ten avatars of Vishnu.