The train departing from platform 4....
- Thread starter beesonthewhatnow
- Start date
Crispy said:
Not in the UK.
British trains weren't heavy enough, or locomotives big enough (mainly because of the tight British loading gauge) to put manual firing beyond the capability of one fireman, firing by hand. Mechanical stoking was tried once or twice, but it was less efficient than hand-firing, resulting in higher fuel consumption and dirtier emissions. Plus, combining it with hand-firing was difficult because mechanical stokers need small lumps of coal, much smaller than the ideal size for efficient combustion when hand-firing, and larger bits jammed the equipment.
I really do know far too much about this.
But I've never driven a steam engine 
although I have sat in the driver's seat of the Mallard. 
geminisnake
a complex mass of conflicting ideas
Roadkill said:
As someone who knows what a ton of coal looks like(and how much space it takes up!) I can empathise with any fireman!!I saw Micheal Palin in Poland and want to go there now myself
I like REAL trains 
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
From what I learned the other day part of the skill in being a fireman is not just chucking the coal into the firebox, but knowing where to chuck the coal. You need to keep a wedge shaped fire going, sloping down towards the front of the firebox - no mechanical device could do this as well as a human.Roadkill said:
It was quite amazing seeing the guy at work, he could tell where needed more by looking at the colour of the flames in the different areas of the box
beesonthewhatnow said:From what I learned the other day part of the skill in being a fireman is not just chucking the coal into the firebox, but knowing where to chuck the coal. You need to keep a wedge shaped fire going, sloping down towards the front of the firebox - no mechanical device could do this as well as a human.
It was quite amazing seeing the guy at work, he could tell where needed more by looking at the colour of the flames in the different areas of the box
Oh aye. Firing's a very skilled job, and from what I'm told the ideal thickness and shape of the fire varied from engine to engine, just to complicate things further.
That's why mechanical stokers didn't work so well - a lot of it was either put in the wrong bits of the box, or blasted straight out through the fire-tubes and up the chimney. Either way it was wasted, and apparently when BR fitted a few engines with mechanical stokers as an experiment, some crews refused to man them because they were so dirty to work on.
Roadkill said:... although I have sat in the driver's seat of the Mallard.
* Calls RSPB ... *
davesgcr
Reading books
Back in May I did Marseille - Lyon via Arles behind the recently restored at Le Creusot SNCF "Mountain" class loco - a 4-8-2 engine which was stoker fired on small washed coal (extra coal carried in a spare wagon fitted with conveyor belt) - even this had to be hand fired in moderation as the feed screw doesnt fill the back corners of the firebox. The crew were as black as miners confirming the usual French representation of "les cheminots"
The next day we did Lyon - Lyon via Annecy and Grenoble behind an American built 2-8-2 (141R) which was oil fired. I had a footplate ride for 30 miles and I stood out of the way behind the old boy fireman. All he did was watch the driver and modified the oil feed and atomiser - throwing in a scoop of sand once to clear the tubes. That engine went like the proverbial bat out of hell and we made up time from a later running Swiss train in front by storming up the hills (but within the speed limit) - I can confim how clean an oil burner is as I was'nt dirty at all. It was a very great privilige to be allowed in the cab.
On the UK system I fired a 2-8-0 from Templecombe - Gillingham in Network South East days - it was a good engine / nice weather and only 8 coaches and a maximum allowable speed of 60mph. I dropped coal all over the floor once and hit the firebox door anothe time - although we kept time - the somehat amused Traction Inspector (seeing one of the guvnors making a mess of it) said laconically that even a greenhorn could make that engine steam........lot harder than you think ! Anticipation is half the game ....!
The next day we did Lyon - Lyon via Annecy and Grenoble behind an American built 2-8-2 (141R) which was oil fired. I had a footplate ride for 30 miles and I stood out of the way behind the old boy fireman. All he did was watch the driver and modified the oil feed and atomiser - throwing in a scoop of sand once to clear the tubes. That engine went like the proverbial bat out of hell and we made up time from a later running Swiss train in front by storming up the hills (but within the speed limit) - I can confim how clean an oil burner is as I was'nt dirty at all. It was a very great privilige to be allowed in the cab.
On the UK system I fired a 2-8-0 from Templecombe - Gillingham in Network South East days - it was a good engine / nice weather and only 8 coaches and a maximum allowable speed of 60mph. I dropped coal all over the floor once and hit the firebox door anothe time - although we kept time - the somehat amused Traction Inspector (seeing one of the guvnors making a mess of it) said laconically that even a greenhorn could make that engine steam........lot harder than you think ! Anticipation is half the game ....!
davesgcr
Reading books
Thats the babe ! - there are about 3 left - but only one working I believe. Built for the Massif Central with heavy 18 coach trains in the 1920's.
Compound loco which runs like a sewing machine. Am told it sounds like a Stanier Pacific - trust me there is nothing better than rolling along the Rhone valley with one of those up front - 1930's carriages with opening windows - "fourgon" selling red wine for 1 euro a glass and vineyards slipping past,
The 141R is a much rougher and noisier engine - built for grunt power and easy maintenance - the 4-8-2 has to be the noblest development of a French Pacific.
The 2 day trip was about £140 - a nice treat - there is another one from Paris- Rheims and around Luxembourg / Belgium in May 2008 with a chunky French suburban 2-8-2T out of Lazare and a Pacific after. Dates and itinery not fixed yet.
Check out the "La Bete Humaine" clips on Youtube for that authentic 1938 fix of French Pacifics - or even better get the film !
Check out
Compound loco which runs like a sewing machine. Am told it sounds like a Stanier Pacific - trust me there is nothing better than rolling along the Rhone valley with one of those up front - 1930's carriages with opening windows - "fourgon" selling red wine for 1 euro a glass and vineyards slipping past,
The 141R is a much rougher and noisier engine - built for grunt power and easy maintenance - the 4-8-2 has to be the noblest development of a French Pacific.
The 2 day trip was about £140 - a nice treat - there is another one from Paris- Rheims and around Luxembourg / Belgium in May 2008 with a chunky French suburban 2-8-2T out of Lazare and a Pacific after. Dates and itinery not fixed yet.
Check out the "La Bete Humaine" clips on Youtube for that authentic 1938 fix of French Pacifics - or even better get the film !
Check out
Call me sad, but I did look at a Youtube video or two of the restored Mountain in action. One of them was from a news broadcast, including footplate-ride footage and interviews with the crew. I don't speak French, but the driver's mile-wide grin made it pretty clear that he was enjoying himself.
I assumed they were mechanically-stoked, looking at the size of them, but it wasn't clear from the video. In fact, the chauffeur seemed to be stuffing the firebox with old sleepers!
One of them was from a news broadcast, including footplate-ride footage and interviews with the crew. I don't speak French, but the driver's mile-wide grin made it pretty clear that he was enjoying himself. I assumed they were mechanically-stoked, looking at the size of them, but it wasn't clear from the video. In fact, the chauffeur seemed to be stuffing the firebox with old sleepers!
davesgcr
Reading books
French loco's used to burn very dusty and small coal - good calorific value but small and friable. (hence the black faces) - they couldent afford Welsh coal !
Dust was augmented by briquettes - 2 sorts - Aniche and AZ - the best trains got the AZ ones. They were called "bricks" and needed to be broken in half before throwing into the firebox. About 3 foot by 1 foot and used to build a base before shovelling in slack coal. Used sparingly - and to get you out of trouble with a falling gauge.
One of the reasons why the French developed such efficient steam loco's was the critical need to get VFM for expensive fuel - hence feedwater heaters, superheating and compounding.
In my next life I am coming back as a mecanicien !
The crew I rode with were 100% French and very welcoming - my technical vocabulary let me down and we were frustrated accordingly !
Read Marcel Perroche's book "Pacific Senator" for an "I did it" autobiography ........Argyll Publishing 2005 ISBN 1 902831 85 3
Dust was augmented by briquettes - 2 sorts - Aniche and AZ - the best trains got the AZ ones. They were called "bricks" and needed to be broken in half before throwing into the firebox. About 3 foot by 1 foot and used to build a base before shovelling in slack coal. Used sparingly - and to get you out of trouble with a falling gauge.
One of the reasons why the French developed such efficient steam loco's was the critical need to get VFM for expensive fuel - hence feedwater heaters, superheating and compounding.
In my next life I am coming back as a mecanicien !
The crew I rode with were 100% French and very welcoming - my technical vocabulary let me down and we were frustrated accordingly !
Read Marcel Perroche's book "Pacific Senator" for an "I did it" autobiography ........Argyll Publishing 2005 ISBN 1 902831 85 3
PacificOcean
Unhinged User
Can someone tell me how to stop crashing in EA's Rail Simulator?
I know red means stop, but it's very hard
I know red means stop, but it's very hard
davesgcr
Reading books
You should get a yellow signal before a red .......bring the speed down to no more than 25mph ........
Get a feel for the train brakes in advance ("rub the brakes") - if its air braked get about a 20 pound reduction on the gauge (normal PSI is 70) i if its vacuum brake (normal operating level 21 inches) - get a reduction of 10 inches.
Lap the brake - ie put the handle in mid position - as speed drops give another application and return the handle to off - this should give a steady and controlled stop.
if nothing happens - put the thing into full emergency ........and get ready to explain how you have put 2 inch flats on the wheels.(and taken a 1000 miles of wear off them)
Well thats a simple guide to stopping a real train...........! With trad breaks - more subtleties with reostatic and electro pneumatic brakes.
Drivers are taught braking points in advanced of stations etc with corrections for slippery rails like this afternoon.
All else fails - chuck it into reverse and apply for a new job ......
Get a feel for the train brakes in advance ("rub the brakes") - if its air braked get about a 20 pound reduction on the gauge (normal PSI is 70) i if its vacuum brake (normal operating level 21 inches) - get a reduction of 10 inches.
Lap the brake - ie put the handle in mid position - as speed drops give another application and return the handle to off - this should give a steady and controlled stop.
if nothing happens - put the thing into full emergency ........and get ready to explain how you have put 2 inch flats on the wheels.(and taken a 1000 miles of wear off them)
Well thats a simple guide to stopping a real train...........! With trad breaks - more subtleties with reostatic and electro pneumatic brakes.
Drivers are taught braking points in advanced of stations etc with corrections for slippery rails like this afternoon.
All else fails - chuck it into reverse and apply for a new job ......
cybertect
It's grim up north (London)
beesonthewhatnow said:
Same loco at Barry Island, 1970
Photo courtesy of one of my contacts on Flickr
That's not you is it?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/54018467@N00/1667927546/
geminisnake
a complex mass of conflicting ideas
cybertect said:
Ooh!! Look editor, that's what you needed for that photo in the Peaks
Cept it was green in my mind.
moose
like some cat from Japan
And here's my dad on the same loco
And me driving it
We should adopt it as the Official Urban 75 Mode Of Transportation
And me driving it
We should adopt it as the Official Urban 75 Mode Of Transportation
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
You had the same fireman as memoose said:And here's my dad on the same loco
And me driving it
We should adopt it as the Official Urban 75 Mode Of Transportation
oneflewover
Following "The Tigers"
davesgcr said:
With route knowledge. Having the fire prepped for a long climb and using the injectors correctly was, as told to me, like having kickdown.
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