The Tower BBC1 tonight at 10.30

[dynamicbaddog]

This looks good - documentary about the Pepys Estate in Deptford

'Five years ago Lewisham Council sold a tower block which formed part of the notorious Pepys Estate on the River Thames. The building is being transformed into luxury apartments, while the residents of the run-down council housing all around it look on.'

I know someone who bought his own flat in that tower block and the council had to pay him loads of £££ to get him to move
. I live quite close to the estate, and I'm always walking round there with the dog, I normally don't like big estates but I would happily live there because you've got such a blindin' view on the Thames right on the doorstep

 

[paolo]

Just caught this for the first time.

One of the most touching documentaries I've watched for as long as I can remember.

 

[editor]

I felt sorry for the pub landlord. He hasn't got a hope.

 

[paolo]

I felt sorry for the pub landlord. He hasn't got a hope.

No. Quite sad.

I once went to a pub like that, down in wapping. A 70s brick built boozer, entirely without any visible charm, but - i expect - the local community hub. It was surrounded by new build towers, and it was marooned. Last man standing. To add to the surreality, the landlord had filled the quite extensive garden with sand. Turned it into a beach party.

Went back a week later with a load of mates. "Look, I know a pub round here that has a beach!"... it was boarded. Eerily, it looked like it been closed for years.

Not long after that, it was flattened.

Oddly, a few years later, I was chatting to the landlord in another pub in the area. Turned out it was his pub. The beach was "the last stand". One final blowout.

Not sure the landlord in this documentary is even going to go out in style.

 

[dynamicbaddog]

Not sure the landlord in this documentary is even going to go out in style.

Well, the John Evelyn is still open (and was quite busy yesturday when the Tour De France went past) so he's hanging on in there

 

[paolo]

Well, the John Evelyn is still open (and was quite busy yesturday when the Tour De France went past) so he's hanging on in there

Yay!!

 

[paolo]

Although you do realise you've now "ruined the ending".

 

[hektik]

i felt awful for the pub landlord.

been watching the entire series: it's a pretty amazing documentary. the salespeople are fucking horrendous though aren't they: talkign up it's redevelopment etc etc, but being too scared to walk from the station to the flats.

 

[jæd]

talkign up it's redevelopment etc etc, but being too scared to walk from the station to the flats.

That was a bit ... Who was the silly woman who kept on going on about being "above the City"...? Its Deptford... its a good couple of miles from the City...!

 

[editor]

It's an excellent social documentary, innit?

 

[robotsimon]

I thought it was so sad - the landlord putting on such a brave face for his brother. You could see the strain in his eyes.

The programme reminded me of the great 'Paddington Green' documentary series from a few years back - are the same people involved?

 

[Melinda]

We've also been watching this from the beginning.

I've loved the balance of realtionships-the strength of family and blood and of friendship- the interconnectedness of community.

The mixed race couple getting engaged and celebrating their chil's successes at school.

The brokenhearted drug addict ,who's ex girl still comes round but only to pick up her benefit check.

The mum of seven who gave birth on last night's show and had to do battle with Lewisham Council for a place to house her family.

The pub landlord who goes to see his brother with motor neuron disease every week without fail. The way his brother spoke about shedding a tear when the visit ends. Oof.

These people fall down and dust themselves off and start over daily.

 

[Melinda]

The sales girls are fools. Stupid stupid stupid. With no undesrstanding and no desire to learn and worse than that no clue that they are lacking vital knowledge about the area they are so delighted to be redeveloping. They speak foolishly like they genuinely believe they are doing the locals a favour.

I hate to call them airheads, beacause no doubt they are highly educated but Jesus, everything they say betrays prejudice, ignorance and vapidity. They have no clue about the area at all and they fear the locals. They dont acknowledge pricing the locals out and talk excitedly about the area being unrecognisable in 5 or 10 years time.

Having seen what happened to Docklands, and also to Newcastle's Quayside- they have no idea what they are wishing on the surrounding community.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

I hate to call them airheads, beacause no doubt they are highly educated but Jesus, everything they say betrays prejudice, ignorance and vapidity. They have no clue about the area at all and they fear the locals. They dont acknowledge pricing the locals out and talk excitedly about the area being unrecognisable in 5 or 10 years time.

Excellently put, it shows how vacuous the idea behind these developments is. It's not hard to exort a load of cash from people with a Thames side view.

Shame to miss this weeks episode, the scenes last week with the two drunk guys was priceless. The trust & ingenuity of just setting those 2 up and leaving the cameras on is a quite a rare feat.

 

[Star Dove]

What a great programme. The scenes this week with the pub landlord and his brother were genuinely moving. I hope the pub's still open now, talking to other people who saw the show I want to go there for a drink in support.

I fucking hate Leol's ex girlfriend though. After blowing his life savings on heroin and crack, going back to do her washing and pick up her giro with her new boyfriend is just taking the piss.

It's good to see a documentary that treats people with respect and doesn't take the easy option of just looking down on people.

 

[Melinda]

Another tremendous episode last week. Wow.
So moving! The glorious, beautiful articulate little girl and her joy and pain over her father.
Loved her mum and her aunts and the family friends surrounding her to give her love and reassurance.

Loved all the NYE celebrations too- knees up at the pub and the dnb house party in the tower block!

 

[zenie]

The one the other night didn't really do any favours for the Irish family did it?

and ditto the poor landlord

 

[Melinda]

Oh the Irish family looked rough- the water fight was - I didnt care for the vulgar language in front of the bairns, and watching the sisters casually and incessantly slagging off the kids' dads IN FRONT OF THEM !! was just awful. You wonder how much counsel and caution the producers gave them about exposing their lives to the world.

BUT most importantly they were also close, loving, funny and supportive family and part of a vibrant community. I found the relationship between the little girl and the mum's boyfriend so moving. He made a real differnce in her life. He'll be so touched when he sees what she said about him. Swings and round abouts.

Rather them than the wealthy, high falutin' but oh so judgmental Pakistani family.

 

[hammerntongues]

Did anyone else find it very sad that when talking about the young girls future they said she would probably end up leaving school early and getting pregnant at 14 but that wasnt neccessarily such a bad thing , all whilst she was listening . Nothing like a self-fulfilling prophecy , sadly they are probably right but that attitude isn`t going to help. I hope they are wrong.

 

[Melinda]

Did anyone else find it very sad that when talking about the young girls future they said she would probably end up leaving school early and getting pregnant at 14 but that wasnt neccessarily such a bad thing , all whilst she was listening . Nothing like a self-fulfilling prophecy , sadly they are probably right but that attitude isn`t going to help. I hope they are wrong.

Ooh I could have wept when I heard that. They all cackled and my heart sank. She's bright and sparky and absolutely deserves a future worthy of that.

I believe her family will keep her safe and loved, but for her to be able to fulfill the bags of potential she has, she'll need someone who sees the value of education to encourage and challenge her- to show her that aspiring for more than you have been brought up with is ok. Hopefully if her mum and aunts cant provide that, she'll have wonderful teachers at school.

But shouldnt Lewisham Council be ashamed? The condition of their flat ??

 

[Firky]

It is good but I can't find myself feeling uncomfortable for watching it - like an outside viewer whom is judging them based on X amount of time they're on TV and from carefully selected edits. Just leads to very patrnonisng and very judgemental opinions on all families involved, rich and poor.

"oohh lets all gape at the proles and pine the toffs."



Quite exploative I reckon.

Hardly Ken Loach is it?

Wednesday Play was far better at executing its purpose.

 

[Melinda]

That's documentaries though?
I believe this one does it without drawing conclusions itself. The narration is very limited.
I disagree that it invites us to 'gape at the proles' but then its not all Noble Savage either- people are shown in the round- good stuff and bad. I like that. You read into it what your prejudices (or not) allow you to see.

You may think - 'wow how do people live like that,' but you see those same people live their lives with integrity and fierce, protective love for each other. Also if anything its the educated 'haves' who come off looking out of touch and clueless.

Of course there is editting, but this 'feels' honest ?! Yes Im aware of how that sounds I see it as a testament to the resilience of people and how love will out.

 

[Firky]

I don't know, I just think it makes for distasteful TV. A bit like when a photographer is proclaimed great for taking pictures of children during a famine, or simply of homeless people. Yes it does create an awareness of social issues but there's a fine line between doing it for one's self, doing it for entertainment and doing it for a benevolent reason.

 

[oryx]

Well, the John Evelyn is still open (and was quite busy yesturday when the Tour De France went past) so he's hanging on in there

My partner drove past it on Friday & said the same, so let's hope he keeps on hanging on!

Great series - so different from a lot of shite 'reality' TV where people just play to the cameras because they want their 15 minutes of fame.

 

[rollinder]

saw it for the first time tonight- caught it accidentally


how could that woman be so nice to her mum who'd put her son into care while she was off singing round the world

and that girl talking about the "dodgy areas" and how she'd been to the highstreet which was 'dodgy' and had wondered what ' Mummy and Daddy' were doing buying them a place there, and then (while talking about how she needed to get a certain grade for what she wanted and) having this conversation:

one of them mentions she's a pefectionist, everything has to be perfect
her mum: ...nobody has a perfect life
girlaris Hilton does

(bad enough on it's own but even worse after talking about the man who died and the one of the other two blokes mourning him & oding sort of on camera - his mate showed so much restreint with the camera man. not just telling him to STOP FUCKING FILMING HIM AND FUCK OFF)

 

[twistedAM]

I don't know, I just think it makes for distasteful TV. A bit like when a photographer is proclaimed great for taking pictures of children during a famine, or simply of homeless people. Yes it does create an awareness of social issues but there's a fine line between doing it for one's self, doing it for entertainment and doing it for a benevolent reason.

Had never seen it before and I caught it tonight by accident.
I think I'm with you on this one.
On one hand it seems to have it's heart in the right place (giving dignity to the locals and giving the estate agents and that airhead law student enough rope to hang themselves) but overall I think it oversteps the line on voyeurism.

 

[glenquagmire]

I caught the last few minutes last night and wished I'd seen more.

 

[zenie]

I caught the last few minutes last night and wished I'd seen more.

I watched all of last nights and wished I hadn't

 

[cockneyrebel]

All these kinda things run the danger of being voyeuristic and too often the documentary makers are middle class tossers who are doing it for their career. But to be fair I know nothing about the people who made this series and they might be ok.

Overall though I've found it a really moving series. My family are from around Deptford and some lived on the Pepys estate. I also know a lot about sell off of the tower and it has always sickened and angered me. 100s of council homes with a river side view sold off to the rich.

All in all I've found the series very moving. It's also made me angry as fuck as those rich idiots parade across the screen coming out with one idiotic thing after the other. It really makes you realise what kinda world those people live in. Oh mummy I wanna be perfect, like Paris Hilton, ooooh I'm under so much stress, things that poor people just don't understand......

 

[zenie]

I've enoyed the others but last night's really sadenned me, the rich kids buying into an area where they're never relaly going to fit in.

The viewer intruding into people's dysfunctional lives, the sadness and grief of Cherry and (what seemed to be) her totally miserable life, then there was the junkie and the pisshead. It all just felt like the programme makers took too much from them.