The BNP are still an insignificant bunch of deluded hateful morons though.
Lets not overstate their political value eh. Insignificant.
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The BNP are still an insignificant bunch of deluded hateful morons though.
Lets not overstate their political value eh. Insignificant.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Compared to what? In term so what? In terms of vote labour?
yup! catch 22 bastardness
The Royal Mail put billions of pounds into the government coffers for many years. I know this for fact.
I used to work with the senior managers in RM (five years) and from the top down, 99% hate the posties, and most have little management abilities.
If successive governments keep chipping away at the service it wont be long until home deliveries disappear for good. Youll collect your mail from a central office in town.
Of course, in the 21st century, snail mail is less significant than it was, but successive governments have been running the service down, and hampering innovation that would have kept it viable.
In terms of the national psyche, remind me again how many seats they have in parliament?, how many councils they control?
There will always be bigots in society, there always will be, my point is they are marginalized, if they were any real threat they would be met with significant force as they always have been.
Personally I see the Daily Mail as a far bigger threat.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's why you are a lazy lazy twat with no politics.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
I used to be inclined to that way of thinking, still would like to be. There is certainly a disproportionate fetish for them in the media. but they aint insignificant if you happen to be in a ward or near a ward where they have a councillor.
Also they become less significant with economic downturns as the establishment would rather people drift to the right than the left.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
POll results euggest otherwise. With or without your juvenile establishment manipulation.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Ah, but if we could only insert a big Family Fortunes "Uh-uh" noise on the board. There was a broad range of parties to vote for other than nazi or labour, including UKIP and a strong-ish tory campaign. especially pertinant given that new nazi voters are quite likely to be former Labour voters.
The UAF did urge people to vote against the nazis but the tone of the leaflet was slagging them off for the criminal infested racist scum that they are. So, no exhorting to vote Labour - and a person minded to vote nazi and pursuaded not to need not be voting Labour.
Basically you had a jibe about "flesh and blood struggle" and I outlined some "flesh and blood" campaigning Id done in the past week. I dont like to get in to personal activity too much but it was neccessary in that case. Then you had to switch in search of fulfilling your appetite for putting people down.
But when you get to the point that you're knocking people for leafleting against the BNP you really need to have a word with yourself.
"You identify the labour party as authoritarian facists"
Wrong. I identify them as authoritarian, which they are. I never them fascist and wouldnt do so. You can call me all over the shop but you're the one wildly making stuff up in a desperate quest to deride other posters.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Bollocks, you've said we're undergoing a fascist takeover. Vote labour.Or even better, vote tory.
You clearly don't believe your own stuff, how on earth can you expect any one else to?
Bye
You clearly don't believe your own stuff, how on earth can you expect any one else to?
Bye
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
"bollocks"
Check the mirror, there's a log in your eye.
I havent attributed any "fascist takeover" to The Labour Party. I have said the global direction of travel is bad, we've had a to and fro about that Mussolinni quote but I have not said that Labour is a fascist organisation. They are not.
"bye"
Oh Im sure you'll return soon enough with your silly strawmen and weird appetite for putting people down.
Check the mirror, there's a log in your eye.
I havent attributed any "fascist takeover" to The Labour Party. I have said the global direction of travel is bad, we've had a to and fro about that Mussolinni quote but I have not said that Labour is a fascist organisation. They are not.
"bye"
Oh Im sure you'll return soon enough with your silly strawmen and weird appetite for putting people down.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You clealy don't think there's an attempted global fasicst takeover, oh no:
Vote fascist. All over the shop. Clown.
Vote fascist. All over the shop. Clown.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Maybe so, but is was so neat! Maybe they could have built some more, and offered rides as a revenue stream.
Did you ever see the actual trains and "carriages"? The only people you could have given a ride to would be dwarves (or members of the royal family, once you cut them in half)!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You're not taking into account the fact that CWU members are able to opt out of the political levy from their union subs, and even back in the mid 90s about 30% of them did, so don't brand the entire membership as holding a certain position because you're talking shite.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
IMO it needs to be borne in mind that each council ward the BNP win serves to legitimise their politics in the eyes of parts of the electorate. We've already seen that the BNP are happily using entryism into politics at the parish and ward level to present their "we're not fascists, we're just tories with guts" spiel, and the political homogeneity of our three main parties is feeding this. They're already seeing their "holy grail" (appealing to the middle classes rather than the boneheads) start to materialise. They may well be insignificant at the moment, but the longer they're allowed (and by "allowed" I mean "not challenged by the main political parties on the issues rather than on their history) to legitimise themselves, the harder they'll be to root out, and the wider they'll have spread.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Every attempt to defacilitate this has been very soundly defeated. I would be suprised if the majority of members arent still funding their beloved privatisation and war party. They are very much part of the problem. Obviously those who dont are in a different boat, but still its the union that facilitates it and the union that is collectively part of the problem.
The people talking shite are those who seek to obfuscate and make excuses for the unions' direct part in facilitating reactionary capitalist government. maybe it upsets them to have the inherent contradiction in their political fetishes pointed out. The unions are holy to some. The activities of the Labour Party most unholy. It is a difficult square to circle. Easier perhaps to insult people who dare to point this out.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
that post was about the general global direction of travel. Every item in it based on fact. And where does it mention the Labour Party beyond their disgusting attempt to treat us all like criminals with the NIR, which would indeed be a dream of many a fascist?
I think Edgely Park alternates between having Sale Rugby games and Stockport County football games. Perhaps you could offer them a hand whenever they need to move the goalposts.
If I say "clown" will it lend gravitas to the post?
frogwoman
Let them eat newts
yup.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yes, and you described the general direction of travel as a fascist takeover, and directly implicating the labour party in that fascist takeover - the same Labour party that you've just been working towards helping win a by-election this week. Have you really still not spotted the contradiction yet?
edit: anyway, enough of this, back the royal mail plans.
I think what the poster meant was unions are stupid giving money to a Tory party under another name
They are already that short staffed at Xmas they hold onto parcels until there's a few to go to same address, or until the addressee complains....
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
"anyway, enough of this"
I talked about ID cards and NIR as part of a move in a VERY bad direction. Maybe you disagree. Labour are not a classic fascist organisation and I have not been working on their behalf in any regard. Like I said before, anyone who derides anti fascist leafleting just to try and prove a contorted and erroneous is pretty desperate.
"back the royal mail plans"
ETA: you say "enough of this" and then get sarky straight away. You are an instinctive stirrer and will stop at little in pursuit of your stirring ways.
I Support the Post Office Workers. I oppose the government. Lots of Post Office Workers support the government. That's more their problem than mine at this moment. In the past my union colluded with the government to shit on me. I left them and cant afford to be in a union at the moment.
I talked about ID cards and NIR as part of a move in a VERY bad direction. Maybe you disagree. Labour are not a classic fascist organisation and I have not been working on their behalf in any regard. Like I said before, anyone who derides anti fascist leafleting just to try and prove a contorted and erroneous is pretty desperate.
"back the royal mail plans"
ETA: you say "enough of this" and then get sarky straight away. You are an instinctive stirrer and will stop at little in pursuit of your stirring ways.
I Support the Post Office Workers. I oppose the government. Lots of Post Office Workers support the government. That's more their problem than mine at this moment. In the past my union colluded with the government to shit on me. I left them and cant afford to be in a union at the moment.
I know lots of Royal Mail employees and none of em like the Govt because they know they are Tories.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
It would be impressive and useful if they could be pursuaded to work to break the link with Labour. If past experience is anything to go by they will find most of their colleagues dont want that. They have a place in their heart for the people who hired the unqualified Crozier for vast amounts of money to make lots of them unemployed. It does make one wonder.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That post above was meant to read 'back TO the royal mail plans'.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Hokey dokey.
maybe we should all stop using the internet and email and revert back to letters?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I'm not interested in what would surprise you, or in your assumptions. I prefer facts rather than rants.
I don't disagree, but this isn't a problem that's confined to the CWU, it's an issue of trade unionism in general, and, more specifically, a problem resulting from the "conveyor belt" nature of the shift of members of union hierarchies into political posts and/or party political positions and the difficulty for members in changing their union's articles, rather than a problem of the rank and file themselves.
Sorry, but you're not doing anything daring, and you're shooting the sheep rather than the wolves.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
It is a FACT that all recent attempts to break the link have been soundly defeated. Unless people not availing of the opportunity have dramatically increased it is a FACT that the majority still chose to give money to the party that shits on them. It's a FACT that this is incoherent.
"but this isn't a problem that's confined to the CWU, it's an issue of trade unionism in general"
Absolutely.
"and, more specifically, a problem resulting from the "conveyor belt" nature of the shift of members of union hierarchies into political posts and/or party political positions"
Yep. Bent as bananas and Animal Farm writ large.
"and the difficulty for members in changing their union's articles, rather than a problem of the rank and file themselves"
Depends how democratic the union is. If it is democratic then a continued facilitation of funding Labour is clearly with a fair degree of consent. If not, then that is another reason to be skeptical of union beuracracy on top of their fondness for authoritarian capitalist government.
God forbid if unions are as undemocratic as the Labour Party itself, then their members could really be in the shit, like Karen Reissman who was dumped on from a height for a long time by the Labour-loving leadership while receiving massive support from her colleagues.
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