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The Synergy Project (CoolTan revisited)

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well we read your post, then read the website (what else could we do to form a judgement?) and found some rather glaring discrepancies and inconsistencies.

why do i need to speak to someone involved in synergy to suspect that charging 15 quid isn't a very cooltan thing to do.

if it's your contention that we're judging it unfairly, i put it to you that this is entirely your doing.

if you hadn't made the cooltan comparison, perhaps it would have been judged on its own merits (ie i'd have thought it was bollocks, like blagsta, perhaps some of the hippies on here might have liked it).

it was YOUR comparison which planted the cooltan idea in our mind, so if we judged it on that basis, who's fucking fault is that.

and trying to sidestep it into some flannel about your own site isn't the point, surely?
 
Guess I should find out...

exactly what Cooltan people have to do with it and exactly what the plans for the new building are.

I will e-mail the person I know at synergy to that effect.

I will point him to this thread, but if he doesn't reply himself, I'll let you know what reply I get.

Josef.
 
that would be a decent thing to do,

like i say, if it serves all sorts of other function besides overpriced trance nights (and those trance nights pay the bills to allow all sorts of other social space stuff to happen) then hmm.. it's not so bad.

do you not accept, then, that my annoyance is justified, in that you made a comparison without ACTUALLY knowing the extent of anyone cooltan-related's involvement or their plans?
 
Originally posted by Dubversion
that would be a decent thing to do,

like i say, if it serves all sorts of other function besides overpriced trance nights (and those trance nights pay the bills to allow all sorts of other social space stuff to happen) then hmm.. it's not so bad.

do you not accept, then, that my annoyance is justified, in that you made a comparison without ACTUALLY knowing the extent of anyone cooltan-related's involvement or their plans?

That's why I'll do it, becuase I'm a decent person. :)

I am quite certain that the lots of good social space stuff will happen in their space in Brixton. :)

I accept your annoyance, yes, but not your accusations or the unfriendly attitude. :(

While I don't know the full extent of their plans or exactly what their involvement with Cooltan was, I do know that they want to try re-create the magic of spaces like Cooltan and that at least some of them were involved with it.

More to the point, why is it OK to assume they've got nothing to do with it and are total rubbish why *you* don't ACTUALLY know? :confused:

Peace,

Josef.
 
Originally posted by jdaviescoates
More to the point, why is it OK to assume they've got nothing to do with it and are total rubbish why *you* don't ACTUALLY know? :confused:
.
I used to be involved with Cooltan (lived across the road, did a lot of their fliers, t-shirt, still know a lot of the people involved) and I don't recognise anyone from the other site.

But the truth is simply this: if they're hosting parties in "London's largest licensed nightclub" with a "state of the art laser system", it doesn't matter how many chakras are shuffling their kosmic karmas to Dr Yakkers: at £15 a head it'll have fuck all to do with Cooltan's vibe
 
Originally posted by jdaviescoates
I accept your annoyance, yes, but not your accusations or the unfriendly attitude. :(

the unfriendly attitude is because spam is contrary to what U75 is about, and until you prove otherwise, the synergy project is a commercial entity getting publicity for free on these boards.

there are strong rules about this. it also helps if someone is a regular poster, it smells less spammy then.

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
More to the point, why is it OK to assume they've got nothing to do with it and are total rubbish why *you* don't ACTUALLY know? :confused:


i can't even understand the second part of your sentence, but in response to the first part:

there is NOTHINg on that website which seems familiar to me as something in the same vein as Cooltan.
it SEEMS to be a very expensive commercial enterprise, a club night with some community aspects, not a community space that puts on parties.

i didn't at any point assume that people from cooltan weren't involved, i just stated that this doesn't immediately infer upon any of their subsequent projects a legitimacy above and beyond what they're seeking to do here.
 
Originally posted by Dubversion
the unfriendly attitude is because spam is contrary to what U75 is about, and until you prove otherwise, the synergy project is a commercial entity getting publicity for free on these boards.

there are strong rules about this. it also helps if someone is a regular poster, it smells less spammy then.

Fair enough, spam sucks. Remind me to get a regular poster to post any links for me in the future ;) (although I've noticed links to restaurants and what have you in response to 'any good thai's' etc. that have gone un-noticed. Guess that's coz they didn't mention Cooltan). Also, my own opinion is that a 100% non-commercial rule is non-optimal. Afterall, there are lots of social enterprises with wholly agreable goals that could do with some support from urbanites if they are to compete with big bad mutlinationals.

Originally posted by Dubversion
i can't even understand the second part of your sentence, but in response to the first part:

there is NOTHINg on that website which seems familiar to me as something in the same vein as Cooltan.
it SEEMS to be a very expensive commercial enterprise, a club night with some community aspects, not a community space that puts on parties.

The second part makes sense if you change the why to a when.

That nights at SE1 are a bit pricey, agreed. I assume that once their space is open, and there is no hire fee, that things will change.

They clearly need more stuff about their space - news of which is why I originally checked them out - on their site (something I'd been meaning to tell them anyway - and will defo do so in my e-mail to them).

Originally posted by Dubversion
i didn't at any point assume that people from cooltan weren't involved, i just stated that this doesn't immediately infer upon any of their subsequent projects a legitimacy above and beyond what they're seeking to do here.

Fair enough. Apologies for my lack of accuracy.

Good night,

Josef.
 
Originally posted by editor
I used to be involved with Cooltan (lived across the road, did a lot of their fliers, t-shirt, still know a lot of the people involved) and I don't recognise anyone from the other site.

But the truth is simply this: if they're hosting parties in "London's largest licensed nightclub" with a "state of the art laser system", it doesn't matter how many chakras are shuffling their kosmic karmas to Dr Yakkers: at £15 a head it'll have fuck all to do with Cooltan's vibe

If that's your opinion, then fair enough. As an evil north-londoner, I had nothing to do with Cooltan, but I quite liked the vibe of the people I met at the synergy project meeting I went to.

I also like very much like the u75 vibe, but as it seems I not very welcome here, I'll fuck off for now.

Peace,

Josef.
 
Admittedly, the ? does not have to deal with rent related issues - but the door is never more than £4 (and that was for seeing 5 bands) - and usually more like £2.

£15 is taking the biscuit.
 
Originally posted by Blagsta
To be honest, I didn't really look at the website. But looking at it now, it looks like a load of typical psy-trance Californian hip capitalist nonsense. And at £15, you can stick it.

So glad you said that. I didn't get far with the website either. I thought it was pretentious nonsense and then felt guilty.

I'm going to chuck this spam away later today. :)

Josef - by all means keep us informed about your project, but don't bullshit. Thankyou.
 
Originally posted by jdaviescoates
That nights at SE1 are a bit pricey, agreed.

And that's not to mention the gestapo security, and a million and one other things totally contrary to the spirit of Cooltan.
 
Originally posted by hatboy
I'm going to chuck this spam away later today. :)

Josef - by all means keep us informed about your project, but don't bullshit. Thankyou.

Please leave this spam here until someone from synergy has a chance to reply for themselves.

Like I said, synergy is not my project, although having actually met and spoken to some of the people involved (unlike everyone else here) I don't think it is total capitalist shit at all. In fact, I think it is an important step towards greater long-term sustainability of community spaces like Cooltan and the growing network of Social Centres in London . Please don't accuse me (a fucking lovely person, doing what I can to unite the world) of being a bullshitter. Fact is, no one here knows what their space is going to be like, since it hasn't even opened yet.

I agree with most of you that £15 is too much, but you do get much more than 5 bands - synergy is more like an indoor festival than a club night from what I can gather.

A quick glance at their flyer shows at least 11 live acts, plus 11 DJs, 9 dance acts, loads of visuals, the work of at least 6 artists in the gallery area, loads of alternative therapies, a fair trade cafe and the involvment of at least 13 NGOs.

It is also worth remembering that for a lot of 9-5ers in mainstream society any saturday night club that costs less than about £15 is looked down at as obviously being shit, and synergy's whole things is about "moving beyond underground protest towards an active enagement with mainstream society". This, to me, is a good thing. At the end of the day, Cooltan doesn't exist anymore, most people have never even heard of it, and most never will. Ther are plenty of 9-5ers who haven't even heard of u75!

I've never particularly liked big club nights myself (more into live music) and I've been arranging live music nights 'for love' for the last couple of years. Unfortunately, 'for love' doesn't buy any food, pay any bills, or recognise that many artists are trying to make a living by doing what they love (although personally I have always tried to pay the musicians who've played for me, even when loosing money on the night).

Obviously, a club night of this scale is not going to have the same charm and vibe as squat parties (that often combine the best aspects of house parties, live gigs and clubs), but I see nothing wrong in taking a load of money from 9-5ers who can afford it (and others who want to support it) in order to help raise money for, and fund numerous activities in, a new community space in Brixton.

I think all of you have been far too quick to judge the synergy project. They obviously need to radically change their website though, since it's clearly giving the wrong impression to many people who should perhaps be naturally aligned with their goals. Does anyone have any uselful suggestions?

Peace,

Josef.
 
josef, i'm afraid i think you're ducking and diving and trying to appeal to our cynicism ('make the 9-5ers pay for it'? - how many of us are 9-5ers i wonder?) and i think you're actually making things worse.

one thing this place clearly iSN'T going to be "is an important step towards greater long-term sustainability of community spaces like Cooltan and the growing network of Social Centres in London . "
 
Originally posted by Dubversion
josef, i'm afraid i think you're ducking and diving and trying to appeal to our cynicism ('make the 9-5ers pay for it'? - how many of us are 9-5ers i wonder?) and i think you're actually making things worse.

I not trying to appeal to anyone, just stating what I think. You think I'm making things worse. So be it. Seems you are stuck in your ways and enjoy putting potentially good things and people down. Good luck to you.

Originally posted by Dubversion
one thing this place clearly iSN'T going to be "is an important step towards greater long-term sustainability of community spaces like Cooltan and the growing network of Social Centres in London . "

That is not at all clear. You have read a bit of their website and made some sweeping conclusions about them based on very little information. I'll put money on the fact that the synergy project's space will be a very useful resource for the Brixton community and that it will last far longer than Cooltan did (regardless of how well they approximate what was, by definition - it not longer exists -, an unsustainable community resource centre).

It seems that you are one of the many people who want no part in anything that is even remotely commercial or mainstream. Frankly (if that is indeed the case), you're just living in denial since you (like the rest of us) are currently totally and utterly dependent on the capitalist system for the provision of your basic needs (albeit in a totally unsustainable, stupid and shit manner). If I am incorrent and you actually live in a self-build straw house with solar water heating, solar electricity, a windmill, rain water storage, grey water recycling, a composting toilet, and grow all your own organic food for sale at the local farmers market in Peckham, please accept my apologies in advance.

In my opinion it is a total waste of time and energy just going round telling capitalists (and those that engage with them) that they are no more than sell-out cunts (which seems to me what you are doing). That's not going to make them change, and if you annoy them enough they'll just shoot you (they have all the guns, money and power, afterall).

Peace, and best wishes with the People's Republic of Disco (might bring a couple of my favourite tunes along one night),

Josef.
 
I've changed my mind and I'm leaving this up for now. Please see my post on the other "Synergy" thread.

Perhaps you all can try to come to a compromise position?

:)
 
Originally posted by hatboy
I've changed my mind and I'm leaving this up for now. Please see my post on the other "Synergy" thread.

Perhaps you all can try to come to a compromise position?

:)

Cheers hatboy :)

I've read and replied to your other post. I appreciate your understanding and bothering to go through and digest everything.

Hat's off to you!

Peace,

Josef.
 
Originally posted by jdaviescoates
Seems you are stuck in your ways and enjoy putting potentially good things and people down.

you don't give up do you.

listen, I HAVE NO PROBLEM - OTHER THAN ONE OF PERSONAL TASTE, WHICH IS BESIDES THE POINT - WITH THIS PROJECT.

my problem was with the was it was being sold - by you, not them, it appears - as being cooltan related.

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
It seems that you are one of the many people who want no part in anything that is even remotely commercial or mainstream.... .... In my opinion it is a total waste of time and energy just going round telling capitalists (and those that engage with them) that they are no more than sell-out cunts (which seems to me what you are doing).


your capacity to miss the fucking point is almost Cecil B DeMille-esque in its grandeur.

nowhere in these posts do i oppose capitalism or capitalist ventures. read them again. i was MERELY opposing a capitalist venture using a non-capitalist venture for borrowed kudos.

which it seems they weren't doing. you were.

joesef - i think you fucked up. the indignation and attitude you and synergy have copped here ALL stem from the cooltan thing, not the project itself. so stop playing unecessary 'we're all capitalists really' cards that don't need playing, that was nobody's fucking point.

:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by jdaviescoates
I'll put money on the fact that the synergy project's space will be a very useful resource for the Brixton community and that it will last far longer than Cooltan did
It may last longer, but I'll guarantee it won't make the same sort of impact on so many people's lives, nor will it politically inspire as many people or be as inclusive.

I'm already put off by all that cod-hippy, chakra-shaking, 'I've been to Goa', £15-quid-a-fucking-head, superstar-DJ bar bollocks.
 
Originally posted by editor
It may last longer, but I'll guarantee it won't make the same sort of impact on so many people's lives, nor will it politically inspire as many people or be as inclusive.

I'm already put off by all that cod-hippy, chakra-shaking, 'I've been to Goa', £15-quid-a-fucking-head, superstar-DJ bar bollocks.

Only time will tell how much impact it will have and how inclusive it will be.

BTW, what's a cod-hippy?

Peace,

Josef.
 
Originally posted by jdaviescoates
Only time will tell how much impact it will have and how inclusive it will be.

BTW, what's a cod-hippy?
A grabbing, money spinning, chakra-chanting capitalist who charges £15 to get into an 'underground' event.
 
2 new english pence

Hmmm . . . went to a synergy project bash at SEOne and was quite a good party if I remember it, but the drama group presentation in the chillout about spericidally lubricated condoms being bad for vaginal walls was unexpected :eek: :D £15 is actually quite cheap for a multi-roomed, 10-6 party in a large legitimate venue (like fuck is it a 'superstar-DJ bar'), with the best production I think I've ever seen and a load of fucking good acts. £20-25 is a more realistic price methinks, looking at the other parties of that scale at that venue. I doubt very much that any of the promoters made any personal profit whatsoever, it's a collectively run ting with open accounting and cash going back to the NGOs etc.

Are they capitalist for charging £15 or are they capitalist just for charging in the first place?

ps keep up the righteous indignation people . . .
 
2 new english pence

Originally posted by sam/phallocrat
Are they capitalist for charging £15 or are they capitalist just for charging in the first place?
.
I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with them charging whatever they like for a 'multi roomed experience' in the company of Dr Yakkers.

I do, however, have problems with them trading off the name of Cooltan which did not offer events in "London's largest licensed nightclub" with whooppee-doododah whizzbang state of the art lasers and burly uniformed security.
 
Re: 2 new english pence

Originally posted by editor
I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with them charging whatever they like for a 'multi roomed experience' in the company of Dr Yakkers.

I do, however, have problems with them trading off the name of Cooltan which did not offer events in "London's largest licensed nightclub" with whooppee-doododah whizzbang state of the art lasers and burly uniformed security.

Ed, was it not you who said "FFS: will you lot just CHILL OUT"? :confused:

Besides, I think it has been pretty well established over on the 'Synergy and Cooltan' thread that no-one here has tried to do any 'trading off the name of Cooltan'.

I alone am guilty of composing the subject of this particular thread, and it was no more than an innocent mistake borne out of ignorance about both the synergy project and cooltan.

I have already apologised for all the confusion caused.

Personally, I can't understand your indignation of the project now that all this has been cleared up, but I'm guessing there's some personal politics going on that I'm unaware of.

All I ask is that you follow some of your own sound advice "Chill out and get along people!"

Peace,

Josef.
 
Re: Re: 2 new english pence

Originally posted by jdaviescoates
All I ask is that you follow some of your own sound advice "Chill out and get along people!"
Dude!
I reckon you need a session with Dr Yakkers!

:)
 
hippy.jpg
 
Originally posted by jdaviescoates
It is also worth remembering that for a lot of 9-5ers in mainstream society any saturday night club that costs less than about £15 is looked down at as obviously being shit, and synergy's whole things is about "moving beyond underground protest towards an active enagement with mainstream society". This, to me, is a good thing. At the end of the day, Cooltan doesn't exist anymore, most people have never even heard of it, and most never will. Ther are plenty of 9-5ers who haven't even heard of u75!

The pomposity and arrogance of the above beggars belief! What you are doing, or appear to be doing, echoes the "hip young capitalists" of the 60s who used the vocabulary of the "movement" ("moving beyond protest", vilifiying "breadheads" - which you now call "9 to 5ers" as uncool outsiders) while at the same time trying to charge £15 on the door. Which opens you to the charge ( at least prima facie) of hypocrisy.

FWIW I am one of those desperately unhip 9 to 5ers (well, part time anyway) you hold in such contempt and I WOULDN'T DREAM of going to something for £15 because to my unsophisticated senses, befuddled by my beast-of-burden-hood, such an entrance fee smacks of a big fat corporate rip off.
 
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